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Comments
@liquid, it is really, really difficult for people to have any sort of discussion about belief systems without judgment coming into play...which is why it can be a huge problem in marriages. It becomes an elephant quickly, and one that is very difficult to resolve, because talking about the problem makes the problem worse in most cases, not better.
Kinda like the time(s) I tried to logic my wife out of her (negative) feelings...
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
My opinion on evolution or church attendance or the Enlightenment is not going to help the OP.
It sounds like the emotional and communication dynamics of your relationship are really similar to ours. Historically I have been the one that one that would calmly bring up an issue, H would be the one to stew over it. Our problem was that these pseudo conversations never resolved anything. Enough time would pass to where it would be swept under the rug. If he would ever actually bring anything up it would be in a very non-productive passive aggressive way that was easily ignored by me because of the way he said it. So we would just drift through any issues and wait it out. When you bring things up and she stews over them, do you eventually come to an understanding or do you just wait it out and ignore it like we did? If you eventually work it out I think your method would capitalize on your individual strengths, if you just ignore it until it goes away like us, it ends up causing detachment from each other. I think this how we sorta just drifted apart, little by little we felt like the other person didn't care what we had to say or how things effected each other. It wasn't any major blow up or issue, it was the quiet, slow politeness, picking the path of least resistance time after time to keep the peace. After all we had an underlying love and respect for each other, so the other stuff just seemed unimportant.
So to loop this back around to your original question, I do not think she would consider your atheist views as a DLV. I think she would actually consider it more of a failure on her part. One of the core concepts of nearly every organized religion is to spread the belief and take responsibility for those "under your wing" so to speak. So your lack of faith shouldn't reflect poorly on you, but rather create guilt/DLV inside of her. Does that make sense? BUT just because it isn't actually a DLV, does not mean it can't be a hurdle to closeness. Something that is at the very core of who a person is, such as religion, is going to create an opportunity for those who share that belief to become closer. At the same time it can create some distancing (I believe is done subconsciously) from those who do not share that belief. Things like religion, politics, lifestyle choices such as special diets, exercise, etc, all reflect a person's core traits. People tend to feel closer to those who have more in common, ie. a better understanding, of their beliefs and values.
As an example if I were a personal trainer and believed daily exercise and organic foods to be essential for a healthy and happy life, but I married someone that did not believe proper exercise and diet made a difference, there is going to naturally be somewhat of a disconnect. I wouldn't necessary think he was a bad person or that it lowered his value, it just would make him miss out on something that could in fact make him more attractive to me. In my opinion, for this example there is a difference between not eating organic vs smoking for instance. Not eating organic would be neutral, not a DLV, just a missed opportunity for DHV. Smoking, however, would be a DLV if I felt he was intentionally undoing all the healthy lifestyle choices I made for myself and wished he would make.
In your case, you have been together long enough that I doubt she sees your lack of religious beliefs to be a DLV, more of a missed opportunity for a DHV. If she is more concerned with the social aspects of Christianity, it would be extremely easy to achieve the DHV by attending a special service occasionally with her. It would probably make her feel closer to you. Before I get jumped all over for this idea, I'm in no way saying you should be a hypocrite or pretend to believe things you do not. Depending on her religion I'm not saying you should take communion, participate in readings, etc. To put it in a non-confrontational view , for me it would be equivalent to me attending a holistic health meeting with my sister. I do not personally believe the things they say will improve my mental and physical well-being actually will do so. I believe modern day medicine has more to offer. But that in no way does that translate into me refusing to go with her. I can go and support her without being a hypocrite about the material. I happen to be Baptist but I have no problem at all attending services for other religions to show support for friends and family. I've probably attended more Catholic services than a lot of Catholics. That doesn't mean I'm converting or mocking, it just shows my love for those I go to support and a respect for what their rituals mean to them. I would not participate in the ceremony, but I would certainly attend a special event if it was important to someone I hold dear. So if I were in your shoes I wouldn't worry about the DLV aspect. If you would like to see if it would create a closer bond, I think you could attend something like Easter, a high attendance goaled service or the like. If you fear it would open a can of worms and that she would then push for more then I wouldn't consider it. If you think she will see it as you supporting her in something she feels is important, I think it could be an extremely easy and painless DVH.
@Kheldar, if only it were that easy. If both own who they are and can truly live and let live, it's not a problem. And the compromises that come with that aren't actually that impactful. I went to Church with my wife Easter and Christmas (before I decided to go regularly). Those four hours a year didn't cause me any harm, other than mild boredom. I had/have no problem with my kids being raised Catholic (Catholic Schools) because of the principle of least possible harm. I want them to have a perspective on religion and faith. That's the best way to get it. My oldest is very committed and gets a lot of satisfaction from his faith (he's a scientist, btw). He minored in it in College, and has a well educated perspective. My youngest could honestly care less. He has some interest in the social aspect, but I doubt he'll ever take it beyond that.
A good friend of ours lost her husband this year (they are both in their 90's). She is a dedicated Catholic, he attended Church with her weekly for most of their married lives, but never converted. She is grateful for his company all those years, and also deeply grieves that he never converted. She hopes his soul isn't burning in hell, but the possibility bothers her a lot.
Unless you are both on the same page with this topic, it will cause problems at some point.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Growing up my family was and still is quite religious. I have two cousins my age who are Ministers, and I also have a nephew who is following a path in the faith. On my wife's side of the family, she is still a Catholic, although more of a cultural one now, my FIL is still fairly devout.
I'm not sure if I really consider myself an Atheist, I often say agnostic but I think that's more of years of religious upbringing that makes it difficult to completely sever the ties.
It wasn't always this way. It's all fairly recent, maybe in the last four or five years I've gotten to this point. I had a traumatic life event that made me question a lot of things and I went on a journey to figure out for myself what I believe. I looked at my Christian upbringing, looked at other religions, even read up on occult teachings for a while. I'm not anti-religion at all and I find their histories and traditions quite interesting. I'm still figuring out what I believe.
My wife knows where I stand, and it doesn't bother her. She believes most of what I do anyway. Even if I didn't tell her I think she could guess from my bookcase. The Richard Dawkings and Christopher Hitchens books could be a hint. She still believes in God and she has her own reasons for it that I completely understand. I have no interest in moving her to my viewpoint and it's not something we often discuss.
As far as our kids go, they both go to Catholic school which I don't mind. Like I said, I'm not anti-religion. It's a good school and the religious teachings aren't rammed down their throats. I think it's good for them to be exposed to different ideas and they can make up their own minds as they get older. I try not to push my viewpoint on them and my wife does the same.
I do keep my beliefs quiet from my extended family though, more to keep the peace and avoid drama than out of fear.
It really depends on her faith. I'm not a Christian, but for most Christians I know, if you reject the central message of Christ, it doesn't really matter if you are an atheist, agnostic, or a spiritual naturalist. You don't know Christ and that is heartbreaking for them. Your rejection of the Christian doctrine was there before you got married. Your wife accepted or rationalized it somehow. That really hasn't changed at all from a faith perspective, even though you are now an atheist, so I don't see why her reaction would be different. She probably appreciated before that you don't diminish the importance of her faith by constantly confirming your rejection of it, and she will probably continue to appreciate that.
However, there could come a day when she looks around at church and sees all the couples who share a deep connection through their faith, and wants that connection for herself... then you've got problems. But it doesn't sound like you have problems right now.
"My advice to you is get married: if you find a good wife you'll be happy, if not, you'll become a philosopher." -Socrates
This is something that is a potential landmine and it should be sorted out well before the "I do's".
As for @Mongrel. If this wasn't a big issue before you got married, why make it one now? On the other hand, if you are going to have kids, you better figure out before they come whether they will grow up in her tradition or yours. If it is going to cause a split, better now before there are other that will be hurt.
When my folks met, Mom was a lapsed Christian and Dad was agnostic and pissed at Christianity. Some time about a year before I came along Mom rediscovered her faith. Dad is still as previously described.
Now, the issues: Dad blames everything wrong in their marriage on Mom's beliefs. (From a more objective perspective, Dad's depression and his drinking might have something to do with their problems!)
When I was a kid going to Church with my mother, everyone assumed my parents were divorced or my Dad was dead because he was non-existent. He was simply absent from a huge part of my life--any activity where there was a possibility of an acknowledgement of a deity.
Very often, I see people judging Christians through a lens that implies perfection. Everyone is struggling (or should be) to be the best version of themselves that they can be. If this weren't the case, there would be no need for forums like this. If a person's religious faith helps them/motivates them/sustains them in this struggle, why fight it?
As to the moral compass thing, one of my longest known (18 years) closest friends is an atheist (or perhaps agnostic fits better, he doesn't believe in God but doesn't totally believe the concept of God is impossible) and he is far and away one of the most decent and moral people I know. I also know "religious" people who lack morals.
ETA: Coincidentally, the friend in question could really use MMSL, but I'm afraid to recommend it as he would pick me out quickly and that would send our friendship into awkward TMI-land pretty fast, especially since he's also good friends with Mr. Katt. LOL
"Things like religion, politics, lifestyle choices such as special diets, exercise, etc, all reflect a person's core traits. People tend to feel closer to those who have more in common, ie. a better understanding, of their beliefs and values."
Funny you mention this...though we share many same political views (many the result of me educating her on them) she actually hates it when I go on political rants. Aside from religion, we disagree on gay marriage, smoking (she does, I don't), consuming junk food...but then, how many of us agree on everything with our spouses?
"In your case, you have been together long enough that I doubt she sees your lack of religious beliefs to be a DLV, more of a missed opportunity for a DHV. If she is more concerned with the social aspects of Christianity, it would be extremely easy to achieve the DHV by attending a special service occasionally with her."
I actually do go with her twice a year (Easter and Christmas, surprise) and maybe one other time a year if she really wants me to for some reason. I did worry it made me a hypocrite at first, but I'm past that and just treat it as an odd social occasion.
"Treating her like a princess didn't make me a prince, it made me a servant."
Link to triage questions: http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
"Your rejection of the Christian doctrine was there before you got married. Your wife accepted or rationalized it somehow. That really hasn't changed at all from a faith perspective, even though you are now an atheist, so I don't see why her reaction would be different. She probably appreciated before that you don't diminish the importance of her faith by constantly confirming your rejection of it, and she will probably continue to appreciate that."
I think this is probably quite true. It is difficult, though, to not diminish some of the really silly (to an atheist) aspects of Christianity that pop up. Example: she is quite excited about the new Noah's Ark movie. That is probably one of the most implausible things in the entire Bible, and an easy target for someone like me. I'm not sure I can sit through it and behave myself (I'll probably encourage her to go with her mother). That's probably the biggest challenge I face: trying not to diminish her beliefs, no matter how fantastic I may think they are. STFU, STFU...
"Treating her like a princess didn't make me a prince, it made me a servant."
Link to triage questions: http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
"Let me ask you this, has her faith made her a better person? Not asking if she is what you think a perfect Christian should look like. If her faith makes her a better person and helps her through the difficult times in life, yet she doesn't try to convert you or throw your belief in the absence of God in your face, then I don't see it as a problem"
Honestly, I don't know that it does make her any better than she would be without it. If she didn't have religion like me, she'd still love puppies, give to the Salvation Army, buy lunch for people in the armed forces and so on. That's who she is. I think she gets something from being a part of her church, but I'm not sure what it is. Since it's nothing bad or evil, I don't really care. If she suddenly announced we'd be giving up alcohol and bacon, then I'd have a problem with it.
"Treating her like a princess didn't make me a prince, it made me a servant."
Link to triage questions: http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
"Treating her like a princess didn't make me a prince, it made me a servant."
Link to triage questions: http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
The faith I grew up in also has a tradition of shunning apostates, so there is a lot of pressure on those inside the church to act as though they believe even if they really don't. Wives are encouraged to divorce disbelieving husbands. Parents are encouraged to disown and disinherit disbelieving children. Apostates suffer business losses as the faithful will no longer do business with them.
In that experience it was one thing to have a believing spouse change his/her mind about belief. It is another thing entirely to have a spouse who never believed in the first place. Within the framework of the church I grew up in, a believer (usually the woman) who has a never-believing spouse is looked down upon to be sure, but is not shunned or ostracized by the congregation. There is always the hope that the non-believing spouse will eventually be converted.
All of this describes the social and community aspect, but it doesn't really address the private aspect of having a mixed marriage.
Presumably if it were really important to your wife to have a strong Christian marriage, she would have married a man who she believed to be a strong Christian. I don't know how this gets resolved, or even if it really needs to be resolved.
I sometimes joke with my dental patients that my husband and I have a mixed marriage because I use a Sonicare toothbrush and he uses the Oral-B. At the end of the day we both have clean teeth -- does it matter how we get there? I think there might be a metaphor in there but I'm too tired to parse it out.
The fourth Rambo was pretty unrealistic too but that didn't interfere with enjoying the movie.