What I've Learned in a Month of MAPping

MiddleMan

I'm about a month into my MAP. Because of my MAP and MMSL, I'm looking at things from a different perspective than I would have before. Here are some things I've learned and some things I want to examine further in the coming months. This is going to be sort of stream-of-consciousness, so please bear with me.

I really enjoy going to the gym and lifting weights. I'm happy about this because I'm doing something concrete and positive to improve my life. Taking action feels good. And it's hard to describe, but I just feel better overall. And I think I can see some slight improvements in the mirror. I'm 6'0" and 170, so my weight is about the same but it's a firmer 170 than before.

I'm not seeing fitness tests from my wife. As far as I'm concerned, she was never a fitness test kind of girl. Of course, when I say this, I'm wondering if the tests are there and I'm just plain not realizing it. But honestly, I don't think I'm getting tested. I'm not sure if this is a good thing.

Based on another thread about the division of domestic labor, I'm doing more than my fair share of the housework, given that I'm the sole breadwinner and my wife is a SAHM. I don't think this ends up working against me, but it might.

I'm doing a poor job being a leader/captain in the bedroom. I'm waiting for cues, I'm responding to signs, and I'm following her lead. It's really difficult for me to change the way I think about sex in our marriage because my old way is so ingrained. For example: Tuesday was our 8th anniversary. We had sex for the second time in two days, which is obviously a good thing. But it was on her terms and very formulaic, like always. We had to get under the covers for a while just to get warm; I rub her back, we kiss and I try to get her warmed up with my hand, I kiss and lick her nipples to try and get her wet and ready. This is usually the best way for me to give her an orgasm. (The MMSLP chapter about how playing "Pussy Hero" gets old resonates with me a whole lot. Up, up, down, down, B, A, start....) But it was clear that that just wasn't going to happen, so she got on top of me and I just followed her lead.

That's not how I want this to go! Especially now, knowing what I know about alpha and dominance and everything else that is taught in here. But I'm still afraid to do this! I'm afraid because I think it might piss my wife off. I'm afraid because I don't think it will work. I'm afraid because I'll feel awkward and uncomfortable and what if I make a good solid alpha initiation but she's still dry because she's not interested and I'm not attractive enough and....

As you all can see, I have a long fucking way to go. At least I've had the good sense to keep this all to myself. The only outward signs of this anyone could see would be my inaction. I wanted to initiate with my wife tonight but I didn't. We were watching the Olympics together on the couch. Our daughter was asleep in her bedroom. But at 9:45, my wife was falling asleep. We had had a long day yesterday including a sick kid and a brand new foster puppy, so the wife was legitimately tired. As much as I wanted to initiate (I'd say 7 on a scale of 1-10), I was thinking about all the reasons I shouldn't and all the reasons it wouldn't work. So I did nothing.

So, beyond continuing my lifting, the main focus of my MAP needs to be increasing my own self-confidence, increasing my willingness to stumble and fail along the way, and figuring out a way to push through my own psychological obstacles to initiating and being confident/dominant. Because I feel like I failed tonight, and I'm getting down on myself.

Personal trainer session tomorrow at noon. MAP on.

Tiger

Good progress here MiddleMan.  Don't rush the bedroom stuff, yes you could probably make things better there, but in the early moths of your MAP it will be a tough road.  If you can do it, work on your leadership skills outside the bedroom, get her in the habit of trusting your judgement and following your lead.  Become so awesome that she starts to chase you.  If after all this is in place you start to work on your bedroom technique you will likely have a much easier go of it.  Your confidence will be better, and she will be in the habit of following your the rest of the time.

MiddleMan

Tiger said:

...Become so awesome that she starts to chase you.  If after all this is in place you start to work on your bedroom technique you will likely have a much easier go of it.  Your confidence will be better, and she will be in the habit of following your the rest of the time.

Thank you very much for the encouragement, @Tiger. That's the goal. I don't always believe that this is going to get the results I want, as far as my wife is concerned. But I'm going to keep on trying. I mean, the idea of her wanting to up her "girl game"? I'd love to see it, but I wonder what it's going to take before she does.

Pirouette

@Middleman, as someone who doesn't test in normal everyday life, is it possible it happens in the bedroom? I just had this epiphany not that long ago and had to point it out to eightbit. He didn't even see it. Reading that the bedroom is still a problem for you I'm wondering if you're missing them there.

Britguy68

Good job...but remember, to quote our resident Alpha stud @sf64. ...."the bedroom comes last".

when I first started mapping I went too hard the other way. Literally threw my wife in the bed, told her in no in certain terms to get on her knees...she kicked back hard....but it set a pattern which I've maintained. Start off the bedroom dominance lightly, tell her what you want her to do, move her around if you have to, etc, give positive feedback.

Also don't be afraid of pissing off your wife!

sf64

Middleman,

Kudos on getting started and your willingness to do the hard work. You are making progress, but there are several things that jumped out at me in what you wrote:

MiddleMan said:

I really enjoy going to the gym and lifting weights. ... I'm 6'0" and 170, so my weight is about the same but it's a firmer 170 than before.

Good on getting to the gym, but you really need to bulk up on the muscles.  Ignore whatever women say.  They like muscles

I'm not seeing fitness tests from my wife. As far as I'm concerned, she was never a fitness test kind of girl. Of course, when I say this, I'm wondering if the tests are there and I'm just plain not realizing it. 

You are being tested, but you don't see it.

Based on another thread about the division of domestic labor, I'm doing more than my fair share of the housework, given that I'm the sole breadwinner and my wife is a SAHM. I don't think this ends up working against me, but it might.

Yes.  This is working against you.  And it is a Fitness Test and you are failing it.

I'm doing a poor job being a leader/captain in the bedroom. 

You don't talk at all about how you are doing leading outside the bedroom.  Truth is that you will never be successful leading in the bedroom if you aren't leading outside the bedroom.

I'm waiting for cues, I'm responding to signs, and I'm following her lead. 

It's really difficult for me to change the way I think about sex 

I just followed her lead.

She is leading.  The good news is that there is a sold baseline of attraction here.  But you want to take it from, "yeah, I'm up for some sex" to "God I need him to fuck me right now."  90% of the change in her thinking will be the result of things you do outside the bedroom, not in the bedroom.

That's not how I want this to go! Especially now, knowing what I know about alpha and dominance and everything else that is taught in here. 

A word of caution.  If you ramp up the dominance in the bedroom before you have raised the level of overall attraction, things are not likely going to end well.  I'm not saying don't push it, but understand too much too soon is a bad thing.

But I'm still afraid to do this! 

I'm afraid because I think it might piss my wife off. 

I'm afraid because I don't think it will work. 

I'm afraid because I'll feel awkward and uncomfortable and 

what if I make a good solid alpha initiation but she's still dry because she's not interested and I'm not attractive enough and....

Your last sentence here is key.  You are right.  If her level of attraction to you isn't there, then she isn't going to be interested.  Keep in mind, she REACTS to your ACTIONS.  Building attraction is a constant dance.  

As much as I wanted to initiate (I'd say 7 on a scale of 1-10), I was thinking about all the reasons I shouldn't and all the reasons it wouldn't work. So I did nothing.

You do have to learn to read the situation better / differently.  If you wife is just bone tired, initiating isn't a good idea.  If she is really sick.. not a good idea.  But you really have to drive yourself to the point where you can initiate and not care about the outcome.  (Outcome Independence).  

So, beyond continuing my lifting, the main focus of my MAP needs to be increasing my own self-confidence, 

So write where you are WRT the 12 items in the MAP book and find your three monkeys.  Just get a little better each day

Mongrel

MiddleMan said:

But it was on her terms and very formulaic, like always. We had to get under the covers for a while just to get warm; I rub her back, we kiss and I try to get her warmed up with my hand, I kiss and lick her nipples to try and get her wet and ready. 

You must be married to my wife's twin sister.  )   Going through all that sucks, doesn't it?  You'll know when the MAP is working when she's oozing the minute you climb in bed with her.  I've managed this sometimes, but it's not yet a normal thing.  This is where working on stoking her responsive desire ALL DAY beforehand comes into play. A few kisses, but smacks, etc throughout the day can help you fast forward through the drudgery of getting an otherwise bored and indifferent partner to be ready.  

Eightbit

Fwiw, I ignored the majority of the fitness testing section. Pirouette simply doesn't do the classic fitness testing, such as demanding or asking for unreasonable things or using an unreasonable tone. Her level of alpha needed outside the bedroom is relatively low, so I believe this is why the fitness testing outside the bedroom from her is rare/non existent (unless you consider this a fitness test)

Inside the bedroom and with any sort of drive bys though, she loves the alpha leadership. Be wary of testing, but don't assume every woman does them lest you end up turning a loyalty test (or just a legitimate request for help) into a fitness test. OTOH, if you are doing more than your fair share of house work, you've got to put an end to that. You certainly might start seeing testing if you cut back to a fair division.

As for the bedroom, it's really, really hard and it feels risky to take control and lead the interaction. Hell, just figuring out what to do sometimes is difficult. But I can tell you when you do it makes sex so much more fun and interesting. And for me I'm learning that when I do this I can do any of the crazy shit that pops into my head and she's not going to judge me or pitch a fit or stop having sex (well sometimes she'll test me when I'm doing something which is always a challenge to my frame, but I'm getting better at handling the bedroom fitness testing). However it's also really easy to fall back into old ways. Dropping the years of baggage and years of being a follower and taking the reigns is something I'm still not that great at doing consistently.

dalef

Since your wife always has to initiate sex, she would appreciate some signs of interest on your part. You should have inititated when watching TV (might not get any, which would be a good chance to show OI), but she would have enjoyed the initiation. Right now she is probably doubting your attraction. After all, beta husbands sometimes run off with other women who only see them at work, where they are more alpha.

hoping4better

1. 170 on your frame is skinny.

2. Unless your wife is wildly attracted to you - and it does not sound like it - your perception of lack of fitness testing is likely off.  The fact that you are scared to make her upset indicates that you are likely failing her shit testing by complying.

3. The fact you are doing more than your fair share of the domestic labor support #2, probably failing fitness tests by doing too much for her.  You need to scale the beta provider handmaiden stuff way way back.  With your newly freed up time develop manly hobbies and a group of guy friends and do that.

4. You need to change your frame state.  There was a quote from @thewolf "be the king" or what would the king do.  I have changed that because being the king would lead to a harem (lol)... a more practical frame state I have found is "be James Bond or what would James Bond do?" or most recently "what would Krull the Warrior King do?"  Does James Bond meekly comply with what his girl wants?  NO.  Doe he care about getting her off? NO. He certainly doesn't care about pissing her off, in fact he encourages it because that is a form of real arousal...  Stop thinking of your wife as your wife when you are in bed with her.  How would you act, what would you do if she was just some girl who was there to fuck you?  Act like that.  No you don't need to go from zero to 210 MPH on day one, "On your knees slut etc." but get in this frame and you will start to take more control.  If she gets pissed at you or cuts you off, laugh, tell her "boring" or "marriage is a sexual relationship, I expect to have sex in my marriage" and go do something fun.

5. Good job shutting the fuck up.  DO NOT EVER discuss your feelings or thoughts in this area with her.  She can't un-hear it and will set you back.

6. Be bold!  Initiate whenever you want to, regardless of time or place.  Sitting n the couch, pull her over to you, put her hand on your crotch, or up her shirt.  She will probably object, don't get pissy. Be playful and tease her a bit.  This is part of the seduction.  The point is you are acting, not reacting.  

7. DO NOT MIND READ.  Don't make her excuses for her in advance, and don't PLAN FAILURE.  There will be some excuse for her for not wanting to have sex until after your kids are grown and out of the house.  You are NOT doing her a favor by not initiating, you are digging your way to a sexless marriage.  She needs to know every fucking day that you are a sexual beast. Then SHE can figure how to respond to that.  Be a sexual beast.  These are all Nice Guy behaviors - have you read No More Mr Nice Guy?  Initiate and she says she is too tired, tease her, play with her and if nothing works be OI and go do something.

8. Above all DO NOT BE AFRAID OF HER... ever.

Look man, you are 1 month in, no sweat. You are doing great so far.  Keep doing the hard work, be uncomfortable and push the boundaries in all your interactions.  Work on being a leader in the home.  Do not allow her to set the schedule, delegate this to her for meals, house work etc. but review it and hold her accountable.  You can do this without being a dick.  She wants to be lead.

Here is the simple truth. her SMV is decaying every day post child.  Yours is going to be going up everyday.  You are the catch, you are the prize, she is lucky to come along for the ride.  Develop your frame and have fun.

hoping4better

MiddleMan said:

Tiger said:

...Become so awesome that she starts to chase you.  If after all this is in place you start to work on your bedroom technique you will likely have a much easier go of it.  Your confidence will be better, and she will be in the habit of following your the rest of the time.

Thank you very much for the encouragement, @Tiger. That's the goal. I don't always believe that this is going to get the results I want, as far as my wife is concerned. But I'm going to keep on trying. I mean, the idea of her wanting to up her "girl game"? I'd love to see it, but I wonder what it's going to take before she does.

It is going to take her believing you are the prize, and that belief will be driven home when she sees her friends and other women give you IOI's...  et voila she will start upping her game.  

MiddleMan

Thanks, everyone. I have spent all day with a stomach virus. Not being able to stand is probably a big DLV.

Kheldar

MiddleMan said:

Thanks, everyone. I have spent all day with a stomach virus. Not being able to stand is probably a big DLV.

No, no. Chicks dig bodily fluids. 

MiddleMan

I also realize, as a couple posters have said, that I'm still skinny at 170. Cut me some slack; I've only been at this a month. The worst part about being so sick today was not being able to get to the gym. Or to eat. In the grand scheme of things, hopefully this won't be a big setback.

Pirouette

Sorry you are sick! We had that go through our house. @eightbit swore he was going to die.

You'll just have to catch up on the responsive desire when you're feeling better

Tiger

MiddleMan said:

I also realize, as a couple posters have said, that I'm still skinny at 170. Cut me some slack; I've only been at this a month. The worst part about being so sick today was not being able to get to the gym. Or to eat. In the grand scheme of things, hopefully this won't be a big setback.

I'm 5'11" and 133 lbs, from here 6' and 170 doesn't look underweight.

allenaddingalpha

@MiddleMan remember this is a journey and don't sweat a bad day here (like sickness) or a mistake there.  Make sure you continue to make net overall progress.  No one gets it perfect all the time.  Size and weight is relative.  Are you feeling good?  Are you more muscular than before?  Take that confidence and let it grow.  Keep building muscle and don't get to busy saying I'm not as big as that guy.  Everyone is smaller than someone. Keep your attitude POSITIVE!  You are getting better, reaching your goals.   

ddad

6`and 170lb is not skinny or underweight but it bears some room to grow.  

MiddleMan

After my bout with the stomach virus, I'm down to 165. But I think I'm ready to go back to eating normally.

fredless

I'm 5'9" and weigh 170lbs.  You certainly have room for growth.

Eightbit

MiddleMan said:

After my bout with the stomach virus, I'm down to 165. But I think I'm ready to go back to eating normally.

Man that killed me too two weeks ago. Went from hovering at 182 to hovering at 177 LOL