"I am worried about the surveillance that was found. It really wasn't useful and I lied about it - that doesn't go too far when I'm talking about rebuilding the marriage. Made me feel weak and stupid because I lied to her about it."
Apologize for lying. No need to justify it. Communicate to her the anxiety that you feel. Ask the counselor if that is normal.
" I don't know if she's scared about what I might ask or if it's just ugly for her to talk about or if she's trying to protect me. I'm guessing a combo platter of #1 and #2."
Mostly guilt I would assume if she's anything like my wife. Yes fear, fear of guilt. Perfectly normal. Not easy for someone to acknowledge what they did in a case like this. My position to my wife was two fold. One, her discomfort is the consequence of her actions. We are both paying for it. I have to do really hard things and so do you.
Two, I need to understand the last few years of my life in order to have closure. I will decide what I can take. The counselor can advise us together regarding what may be harmful but I get the final decision.
This last one may be tough for you. I have been willing to end the marriage since dday if she doesn't do what I need. I make sure my requests are very reasonable but I don't negotiate. Not sure if you can back that up.
ETA: I also explained to her that she needed to come entirely clean to purge it from herself. I truly think this was true and worked. In addition, her speaking the truth when it's really hard to do is exactly what you need to see to rebuild trust. It's easy to tell the truth when it doesn't hurt.
I think it is reasonable to express your discomfort that the set of conditions that lead to the affair are still in place, by leaving those conditions in place she is placing a huge burden on you and damaging your relationship.
She has chosen a career where she spends large amounts of time on her own in exotic locations. This sets up conditions to make it easy for a spouse who wants to cheat to be able to cheat. Given that she now has a history of giving in to temptation you cheapen yourself by remaining willing to continue to accept that lifestyle.
Actions have consequences one of the consequences of her action of giving into temptation and having an affair is that this same lifestyle and career choice now is doing damage to her relationship to you that it did not do before. Every time you allow her to get on a plane for one of these trips it eats away at you.
I think most reasonable people would have a problem with this, this is not a problem that you have to get over or solve by yourself.
Why are you the one who has to suffer because she chose to break your marriage vows?
Of course she does not want to accept the cost of the consequences of her actions, but that does not mean that you need to be willing to accept her doing that. Her actions fundamentally changed the nature of what is acceptable in your relationship, you both need to internalize that and deal with it.
I don't know that the travel led to the affair, it was my lazy bear husband routine that I believe fueled that. THe travel simply made it easy to have unfettered time with her affair partner. I believe this would have happened whether she was traveling or not. But, it was easier for her. She has traveled for the past 10+ years, so this is not new and it is a part of her job that she is very good at and enjoys (affair notwithstanding in this comment).
Removing travel would be a major, major change and probably would be the death knell of her career. Not sure that is going to work. However, how we communicate when she's away, boundaries, transparency, traveling with me and/or family at times (we've done this recently), working to minimize travel that isn't necessary. etc.
She has to look at it from her side too. This kids are growing and you don't get this time back. Missing events in their life is getting old for her too.
We will discuss this together.
The meeting on Saturday was rough. I've been thinking about how I went about things after DDay and I think I felt justified in secretly tracking her - I was scared, I didn't trust her, I had been lied to for a long time, I felt out of control, I was hurt, I was angry. After a time as we began the early stages of rebuiliding and I went through the predictable stages I told her that I always needed the truth, it was a must for me to rebuild her trust. We talked about (because she asked) some of the basics of how I had discovered the affair and she asked point blank if I still had a keylogger or if I was tracking her. I lied and said no.
Now, at this point, I really wasn't getting anything out of tracking her. She wasn't doing anything wrong and was doing everything we talked about to try to rebuild. Meanwhile, I talked about truth and trust and here I was lying to her face. I don't know how I expected to rebuild REAL trust when I was monitoring her every move essentially. Didn't make me feel good, just became more of a crutch or obsession.
So - that is where we're at. We're talking this week and then back to MC later this month.
Rebuilding trust is only possible if you can *verify* their behavior. You were duped and shamed into believing that continuing to check up on her was wrong. It's problematical if it becomes obsessive and prevents you from moving on, but not wrong.
The lying? Yes, that was wrong and trust damaging. You should have owned that you weren't comfortable with letting go of the 'heightened surveillance' and worked through your anxieties with a therapist and developed a plan for an end date. FTR, having access to her accounts is not a bad thing... there needs to be transparancy on both sides.
When push comes to shove, you taste what
you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can
take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get
mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!
Comments
Apologize for lying. No need to justify it. Communicate to her the anxiety that you feel. Ask the counselor if that is normal.
" I don't know if she's scared about what I might ask or if it's just ugly for her to talk about or if she's trying to protect me. I'm guessing a combo platter of #1 and #2."
Mostly guilt I would assume if she's anything like my wife. Yes fear, fear of guilt. Perfectly normal. Not easy for someone to acknowledge what they did in a case like this. My position to my wife was two fold. One, her discomfort is the consequence of her actions. We are both paying for it. I have to do really hard things and so do you.
Two, I need to understand the last few years of my life in order to have closure. I will decide what I can take. The counselor can advise us together regarding what may be harmful but I get the final decision.
This last one may be tough for you. I have been willing to end the marriage since dday if she doesn't do what I need. I make sure my requests are very reasonable but I don't negotiate. Not sure if you can back that up.
ETA: I also explained to her that she needed to come entirely clean to purge it from herself. I truly think this was true and worked. In addition, her speaking the truth when it's really hard to do is exactly what you need to see to rebuild trust. It's easy to tell the truth when it doesn't hurt.
Rebuilding trust is only possible if you can *verify* their behavior. You were duped and shamed into believing that continuing to check up on her was wrong. It's problematical if it becomes obsessive and prevents you from moving on, but not wrong.
The lying? Yes, that was wrong and trust damaging. You should have owned that you weren't comfortable with letting go of the 'heightened surveillance' and worked through your anxieties with a therapist and developed a plan for an end date. FTR, having access to her accounts is not a bad thing... there needs to be transparancy on both sides.
When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!
"Stand" by Rascal Flatts