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Arguing or Disagreeing as Captain and FO

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  • KattKatt USASilver Member Posts: 4,554

    Interesting... One thing my husband is not good at AT ALL is handling the discussion of feelings.   And he has also tried to logically explain my away, which is not helpful at all.   He's better than he used to be in that he is less likely to completely dismiss my "unapproved" feelings as ridiculous than he used to be, but still if he sees clearly that I "shouldn't" feel a certain way because it isn't logical, he thinks I should just be able to say "Oh, I see... Well sinceyou  pointed that out, I guess I don't feel that way anymore".   LOL.   So, yeah, logic doesn't change feelings and arguing about that is futile.   

    TenneeAngelineLouise
  • soa2005soa2005 United statesSilver Member Posts: 631

    @katt

    It's interesting and sometimes funny how different the sexes really are. Since I couldn't logically understand my wife'a feelings I would dismiss them. It didn't hit home until a therapist ( female) stated " feelings are feelings, they're not right or wrong". I wish this could have been explained to me years ago. I would have avoided so much grief lol. 

    KattTenneeAngelineLeticia
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963

    MM - I have noticed the following round these parts.  We don't argue if I am leading properly.  W grew up with a domineering father and older brother; they're good people but just ran her over and treated her like the 'little girl'.  So if she perceives me as running her over, she'll fight me to the death over anything.   So I frame it with her input: "Do you want to go out with X and Y Friday or Saturday?"   Notice I made the decision about what we're doing and with who and she has input. When things are framed like this, there are no arguments.

    Like @soa2005‌ , I've also noticed she defers to me routinely.   What do you want for dinners next week?  What are we doing this weekend?  What time are we doing X?  What color should I pick? There are literally dozens of little leadership moments every day.  Previously I responded with 'I dunno' or 'whatever' or 'you decide'   No more, I have a decisive, strong answer every time.  There are no arguments or waffling - she asked, I decided.   Listen for these and take advantage of them, if she's doing this at all, she wants leadership. Take action.

    I learned to STFU when she discusses stuff.  I want to fix things, take action - that's my nature.  She just wanted to vent a bit.  So if it's something that is not affecting me/the family, and she's just emotionally venting, I STFU.   That was hard for me to do, but there's no argument - she got it out, I listened and didn't 'run her over'.  No problem.  This is probably the hardest thing for me to do.   My...ummmm....charming personality includes thinking I'm always right.  S'ingTFU is quite difficult for those of us who are always right... ;)  

    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
    AngelineKattLeticiaOlddog
  • RebornReborn LondonGold Men Posts: 2,987
    It's a classic, isn't it?
    Me - You know, it makes me feel sad and unappreciated when you do X.

    (( Boyfriend hears this as "you should not do X" ))

    Boyfriend - You really shouldn't feel that, because I have A, B and C reasons for doing X. Are they not good reasons?
    M - Ok, I guess they are, but... I still feel unappreciated.
    B - Well, you're wrong. ((because he thinks she said "dont do X" ))

    The boyfriend hears her feelings as a criticism. And maybe he's right! 

    Not in @Leticia 's case maybe, but some people will use their feelings that way. On the other hand, perhaps she didn't mean it as a criticism of him. So he needs to ask ....

    Boyfriend: you feel sad? Tell me more about that... 

    and then

    Boyfriend: the thing is, it's going to cause me some pain if I can't do X, because A B and C reasons, so how do you think we can resolve this?


    Enneagram type 5 w6. 
    If I offer lots of advice, it's probably really me giving advice to myself. That always seems to happen. 
    AngelineMiddleMan
  • crosshatchcrosshatch USSilver Member Posts: 44
    Reborn said:
    It's a classic, isn't it?
    Me - You know, it makes me feel sad and unappreciated when you do X.

    (( Boyfriend hears this as "you should not do X" ))

    Boyfriend - You really shouldn't feel that, because I have A, B and C reasons for doing X. Are they not good reasons?
    M - Ok, I guess they are, but... I still feel unappreciated.
    B - Well, you're wrong. ((because he thinks she said "dont do X" ))

    The boyfriend hears her feelings as a criticism. And maybe he's right! 

    Not in @Leticia 's case maybe, but some people will use their feelings that way. On the other hand, perhaps she didn't mean it as a criticism of him. So he needs to ask ....

    Boyfriend: you feel sad? Tell me more about that... 

    and then

    Boyfriend: the thing is, it's going to cause me some pain if I can't do X, because A B and C reasons, so how do you think we can resolve this?


    I don't like seeing this as being about men/women.  I have found that everyone, male or female, wants to have their feelings validated.  All the parenting stuff that actually worked with my kids (and I have a boy and a girl) starts off with validate your kids feelings.

    You hit the exact two things that block emotional connection.  Responding either by viewing someone else's feelings as criticism, or reflecting selfishly that addressing that emotional need might impact your feelings.  Both are deflections, he isn't acknowledging how she feels.  Rather he is closing the wagons on his feelings.

    The response you give has the boyfriend being open and honest about his feelings and needs.  Once that is all on the table, they can negotiate.  To try and work something out where one person is withholding their feelings, seems destined for failure.




    RebornLeticia
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