yea I am starting to agree regarding reddit, I learned a whole lot there though. But it may be time to take what I have learned and move on. I am not negative like this with my wife or in general on a day to day basis at all, just when discussing stuff like this. The obvious answer is to move on from the negativity.
@RedPillWifey: "Stay away from the red pill reddit... That crap is poisonous. It started with good intentions, but has turned into a cesspool of negativity."
There is a point with all -isms or movements, whether it's the man's movement or the woman's movement, where it changes from empowerment of the members of the movement and starts to be about de-powerment or hating on all those bad people out there who are terrible and make us miserable. Which becomes a cycle of negativity.
I suspect WarriorMonk is speaking from experience. And it's common for people to take their experiences with a few bad apples and extrapolate them as being universally true of the whole bunch.
But most of our problems and almost all of our solutions start and end with the boundaries of our own lives. Our own decisions. Our own behaviors. If remarriage or LTR doesn't work for us and who we are, that's about us, not because women are not worthy (or men, if you are a woman) of our wonderfulness.
Super high quality men and women are very rare, admittedly, and people without a past (riding the cock carousel in the past, having been a man-slut or a huge douchebag in the past, or a man child, or whatever) is rarer still. You don't normally get born a fully formed perfect person.
Most of us are working on our way to being a better human being, a better person, a better man or woman, a better husband or wife. We also have natural limitations that we all live with. We all have emotions that can lead us astray, conflicting desires, drives and compulsions that conflict with our higher goals.
David DeAngelo (big in the PUA field) made the point, and many of his fellow PUAs have made the point, that you need to be a high quality man to attract and be attracted to high quality women. That is, if you find yourself dating a lot of low quality women, the problem is not the women, it's you.
... I dunno. People are mixed bags. They have positives and negatives. We have a choice about what we focus on. But at the end of the day, our happiness comes mostly from who we are, not who other people are. Complaining about the evils of the fairer sex is just a waste of energy that could be much better devoted to a men improving themselves.
And, yes, the Man-o-Sphere is filled with men seeking catharsis. The problem is, catharsis never comes . . . it's just endless vomitting of negativity, and implicitly or explicitly laying the responsibility for our happiness and fulfillment on other people, individually or as a group.
@Joskin_Nodd "David DeAngelo (big in the PUA field) made the point, and many of his fellow PUAs have made the point, that you need to be a high quality man to attract and be attracted to high quality women. That is, if you find yourself dating a lot of low quality women, the problem is not the women, it's you."
Hope this doesn't take us too far off track, but this is part of my dilemma. I've dated immigrant women without a pot to piss in, hardworking factory workers, professional women, hell, I'm even dating an award-winning actress. All of them high-quality women in their own way, caring and respectful, but none who have (yet) shown the combination of qualities that are going to get me to take the next step. And honestly, in some cases I'm not the guy for them. I get that.
AFA this thread goes, I'm up front in that I'm never going to marry again, but I am looking for a relationship with a woman who I can be monogamous with. Eventually, with the right person, I might consider common-law, but that will be a huge step for me.
I want to have sex thousands of times with one woman, not sex once with thousands of women. I'm just not going to do it in the legal confines of a marriage.
The man who gives his woman everything ends up with nothing. Not even the woman.
@Joskin_Nodd: "And, yes, the Man-o-Sphere is filled with men seeking catharsis. The problem is, catharsis never comes . . . it's just endless vomitting of negativity, and implicitly or explicitly laying the responsibility for our happiness and fulfillment on other people, individually or as a group."
This ^^
I enjoy reading Rollo's posts, but I keep them in context. Sometimes they're a bit over the top, the generalizations can be fast and loose, and his audience cynical & bitter, but I consistently find the 'pearls' to be worth the effort.
That said, I don't stray too deeply into the comments... The negativity can be depressing
When push comes to shove, you taste what
you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can
take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get
mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!
I stayed away from this thread (and the even more pointless 'what good are women' thread) because I didn't see how it could possibly be productive. In general, you won't improve your outlook on something by staring off longingly at that other, greener grass. Insisting on seeing marriage or women as the problem is a refusal to see the part you played.
I'm divorced. After 30+ years, I got a year's worth of support and technically you could say I "got the house", a house with about 5% equity. My ex had siphoned of the equity by refinancing the heck out of it and using the equity on toys. By working 2 and 3 jobs, I got my head above water, and the house will be all mine shortly. I'm the one risking my future and retirement if I get married, because Cdr. Awesome was similarly stripped bare in his divorce. I'm not sure it would be smart to remarry either. Cdr. Awesome is, well, awesome, but there are some concerns. As someone stated elegantly in a PM, "I don't want to be someone's retirement plan". But I'm not all bitter and angry at those slutty menz over it.
Complacency is a human failing, not a female one.
"Speak your truth." - Scarlet Remember to play! Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not. Be married, until you are not.
Just so you know, my current partner doesn't want to get married either. She was burned horribly by divorce in the past. It's not just men who are rejecting marriage.
Just so you know, my current partner doesn't want to get married either. She was burned horribly by divorce in the past. It's not just men who are rejecting marriage.
Right. But the women are the ones being patted on the head and told "There there, you don't really know what you want; you'll change your mind."
I might actually be able to do the celibate thing if my marriage ended and it is probably a good overall solution, Christ might have actually been on to something
It is both interesting and worrisome to me that you spend so much time thinking about your possible post-marriage life. Maybe that's normal if things aren't perfect, though.
"The pain of discipline is a tiny thing compared to the pain of regret."
I actually also think I would not adjust to a life of a bachelor, sleeping around without attachments. It seems like a viable alternative to marriage but then again it is repulsive at the same time.
This is where I think I would fall. I may not do the marriage thing, or even keep someone under the same roof, but I would be monogamous with a particular partner. "Playing the field" and whoring around to notch my bedpost has no appeal to me. I'd date with whatever frequency it took to find someone worth sharing my time with, but then I'd stick with that individual until reasons surfaced to 'next' her (and with the constant hope I wouldn't have to). That's how I'm wired.
Everyone has a plan until the battle starts. ;-)
This has been interesting for me in my singles life because I've had both. Slept with three women somewhat simultaneously before deciding on one in particular, yes with an ultimatum. But that choice was a good one and a great relationship with lots of great sex commenced. After she backed out, I quickly got back to a similar spot with two women, except I kept it chaste until deciding. Again, great relationship, great sex for the duration.
It's the dating multiple women period that is of interest here. Everyone's approach could differ. This time around I'm going to try to actively limit the numbers I meet at one time. Life is hectic enough. The risk-reward bit is not meeting someone and determining worthwhile before they leave the market. The upside is potentially a quicker read on sexual compatibility with the woman I'm focusing on.
"The pain of discipline is a tiny thing compared to the pain of regret."
I might actually be able to do the celibate thing if my marriage ended and it is probably a good overall solution, Christ might have actually been on to something
It is both interesting and worrisome to me that you spend so much time thinking about your possible post-marriage life. Maybe that's normal if things aren't perfect, though.
It's Red Pill 101, always have options or least see your potentials. My marriage is not perfect but it is far from being one the really bad cases I read about. I have the power because I have the higher SMV, but that can always change due to me losing a job, getting sick, or whatever. When I am weak my wife becomes something fierce to deal with. It would be stupid to just assume that my marriage will always be there.
I also have years of blue pill behavior to unwind, she gained the upper hand for a long time because I did not realize my own power and value. It's better than before but she is relentless with trying to control me.
"The turnaround is tremendous. And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects. I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force. He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well." - Scarlet
I actually don't agree, you have to see things for the way they actually are before you can really make positive changes. Everything you do has to be an informed decision. You have to see the negatives and positives or you will just run around blind.
Improving yourself, being positive, and increasing your SMV is a good thing but won't prevent you from dating a bad woman if you are not careful. Positivity can be good but it can be bad too, it can blind you to reality. I think the trick is finding a healthy balance of optimism along with a healthy dose of skepticism. Go too far either way and you can get yourself in deep, but much more so by being too positive with your head in the clouds.
I go through short stages of negativity from time to time but otherwise am positive, it is usually a period of growth where I see things that I did not want to see before. I have made some significant improvements to my life through this, even this week I have done something profound to better my life, all due to this.
Occasional negativity keeps me out of trouble, positivity is great and all but must be balanced with reality. I've gotten in the most trouble in my life when my head is in the clouds with too much positivity.
I actually don't agree, you have to see things for the way they actually are before you can really make positive changes. Everything you do has to be an informed decision. You have to see the negatives and positives or you will just run around blind.
Improving yourself, being positive, and increasing your SMV is a good thing but won't prevent you from dating a bad woman if you are not careful. Positivity can be good but it can be bad too, it can blind you to reality. I think the trick is finding a healthy balance of optimism along with a healthy dose of skepticism. Go too far either way and you can get yourself in deep, but much more so by being too positive with your head in the clouds.
I don't have to care if you agree with me or not. Stop being mindlessly negative on my forum.
"The turnaround is tremendous. And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects. I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force. He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well." - Scarlet
In the almost two years since the Forum opened, I've seen a lot of people come and I've watched them go.
I can tell you that those who make the most progress are the ones who concentrate on actually running a Map. Those who speculate endlessly on the pitfalls of being married without doing the actual work of improving their value typically fall away after a while and find other places to vent negativity.
@WarriorMonk , you joined on Feb 22 and since then have posted 48 comments, not one of which has included a Triage or detailing out your reds/yellows/greens. When you first posted, you hadn't yet read the books.
If you're here to improve yourself and/or your marriage, the only way to do it is to read Athol's work and then start running your Map. There are no shortcuts. To get improvements, you have to do the work.
Recommend that you start a Triage thread and give the background to allow people to help you.
I actually don't agree, you have to see things for the way they actually are before you can really make positive changes. Everything you do has to be an informed decision. You have to see the negatives and positives or you will just run around blind.
Improving yourself, being positive, and increasing your SMV is a good thing but won't prevent you from dating a bad woman if you are not careful. Positivity can be good but it can be bad too, it can blind you to reality. I think the trick is finding a healthy balance of optimism along with a healthy dose of skepticism. Go too far either way and you can get yourself in deep, but much more so by being too positive with your head in the clouds.
I believe my view of marriage, and the view of most, would be different if I was 'red pill' from the start. I'm married almost 20 years. The first couple of years was great. The middle ranged from good to shit. The last few have been the best of our marriage. As it is, I don't think I'd get married again if something happened. I don't rule it out, but I don't think I'd actively seek out marriage.
I have wondered how different my marriage and my life would be if I was always red pill. How many of us would like to go back to our younger days with the knowledge we have now? But there's no sense looking up a dead horse's ass.
So I strive to continue to improve. Improve myself, my marriage, and my life in general. I have married a wonderful woman. I love my wife--whatever the fuck that means. I enjoy being with her. I will hopefully grow old with her. For the most part, she's good fun.
In the almost two years since the Forum opened, I've seen a lot of people come and I've watched them go.
I can tell you that those who make the most progress are the ones who concentrate on actually running a Map. Those who speculate endlessly on the pitfalls of being married without doing the actual work of improving their value typically fall away after a while and find other places to vent negativity.
@WarriorMonk , you joined on Feb 22 and since then have posted 48 comments, not one of which has included a Triage or detailing out your reds/yellows/greens. When you first posted, you hadn't yet read the books.
If you're here to improve yourself and/or your marriage, the only way to do it is to read Athol's work and then start running your Map. There are no shortcuts. To get improvements, you have to do the work.
Recommend that you start a Triage thread and give the background to allow people to help you.
I actually don't agree, you have to see things for the way they actually are before you can really make positive changes. Everything you do has to be an informed decision. You have to see the negatives and positives or you will just run around blind.
Improving yourself, being positive, and increasing your SMV is a good thing but won't prevent you from dating a bad woman if you are not careful. Positivity can be good but it can be bad too, it can blind you to reality. I think the trick is finding a healthy balance of optimism along with a healthy dose of skepticism. Go too far either way and you can get yourself in deep, but much more so by being too positive with your head in the clouds.
I have made an amazing amount of progress just by reading the book and other red bill blogs. I am in a different universe right now. I no longer feel I am in a situation than needs a triage or anything. I just like reading and talking with like minded people. I know what I have to do going ahead.
I am a natural red pill who was misdirected by social pressure since I was young, it is easier for me to assume the role again as opposed to learning a completely new nature.
My "negativity" is occasional and comes from a position of strength, it gives me resolve at times. I am very stoic in my daily life. Nobody can tell what is going through my head. It is funny because when I am the most negative and angry inside I display my most qualities that attract women. I look strong and resolved and with purpose.
I guess that I am different than most people here in how I approach things which is fine, I should probably find another forum or blog to participate in. Every place has their own way and culture, there are other places I can go that share my same outlook. Take care it was great to talk to you all, no hard feelings.
Comments
Stay away from the red pill reddit... That crap is poisonous. It started with good intentions, but has turned into a cesspool of negativity.
"There are no right biscuits." – Mandrill
Hope this doesn't take us too far off track, but this is part of my dilemma. I've dated immigrant women without a pot to piss in, hardworking factory workers, professional women, hell, I'm even dating an award-winning actress. All of them high-quality women in their own way, caring and respectful, but none who have (yet) shown the combination of qualities that are going to get me to take the next step. And honestly, in some cases I'm not the guy for them. I get that.
AFA this thread goes, I'm up front in that I'm never going to marry again, but I am looking for a relationship with a woman who I can be monogamous with. Eventually, with the right person, I might consider common-law, but that will be a huge step for me.
I want to have sex thousands of times with one woman, not sex once with thousands of women. I'm just not going to do it in the legal confines of a marriage.
This ^^
I enjoy reading Rollo's posts, but I keep them in context. Sometimes they're a bit over the top, the generalizations can be fast and loose, and his audience cynical & bitter, but I consistently find the 'pearls' to be worth the effort.
That said, I don't stray too deeply into the comments... The negativity can be depressing
When push comes to shove, you taste what you're made of. You might bend til you break, cause it's all you can take. On your knees you look up, decide you've had enough. You get mad, you get strong, wipe your hands, shake it off... And you stand!
"Stand" by Rascal Flatts
I'm divorced. After 30+ years, I got a year's worth of support and technically you could say I "got the house", a house with about 5% equity. My ex had siphoned of the equity by refinancing the heck out of it and using the equity on toys. By working 2 and 3 jobs, I got my head above water, and the house will be all mine shortly. I'm the one risking my future and retirement if I get married, because Cdr. Awesome was similarly stripped bare in his divorce. I'm not sure it would be smart to remarry either. Cdr. Awesome is, well, awesome, but there are some concerns. As someone stated elegantly in a PM, "I don't want to be someone's retirement plan". But I'm not all bitter and angry at those slutty menz over it.
Complacency is a human failing, not a female one.
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
Just so you know, my current partner doesn't want to get married either. She was burned horribly by divorce in the past. It's not just men who are rejecting marriage.
Right. But the women are the ones being patted on the head and told "There there, you don't really know what you want; you'll change your mind."
"The pain of discipline is a tiny thing compared to the pain of regret."
"The pain of discipline is a tiny thing compared to the pain of regret."
I also have years of blue pill behavior to unwind, she gained the upper hand for a long time because I did not realize my own power and value. It's better than before but she is relentless with trying to control me.
One Hour Call 12-Week Guided MAP
"The turnaround is tremendous. And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects. I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force. He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well." - Scarlet
I actually don't agree, you have to see things for the way they actually are before you can really make positive changes. Everything you do has to be an informed decision. You have to see the negatives and positives or you will just run around blind.
Improving yourself, being positive, and increasing your SMV is a good thing but won't prevent you from dating a bad woman if you are not careful. Positivity can be good but it can be bad too, it can blind you to reality. I think the trick is finding a healthy balance of optimism along with a healthy dose of skepticism. Go too far either way and you can get yourself in deep, but much more so by being too positive with your head in the clouds.
Occasional negativity keeps me out of trouble, positivity is great and all but must be balanced with reality. I've gotten in the most trouble in my life when my head is in the clouds with too much positivity.
"My advice to you is get married: if you find a good wife you'll be happy, if not, you'll become a philosopher." -Socrates
One Hour Call 12-Week Guided MAP
"The turnaround is tremendous. And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects. I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force. He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well." - Scarlet
The Secret to Why Your Wife Doesn't Initiate; Top Two Reasons Your Husband Doesn't Want Sex; Dominance-It's Not a Bad Word; Top 10 Ways to Increase Testosterone Naturally
I have wondered how different my marriage and my life would be if I was always red pill. How many of us would like to go back to our younger days with the knowledge we have now? But there's no sense looking up a dead horse's ass.
So I strive to continue to improve. Improve myself, my marriage, and my life in general. I have married a wonderful woman. I love my wife--whatever the fuck that means. I enjoy being with her. I will hopefully grow old with her. For the most part, she's good fun.
I am a natural red pill who was misdirected by social pressure since I was young, it is easier for me to assume the role again as opposed to learning a completely new nature.
My "negativity" is occasional and comes from a position of strength, it gives me resolve at times. I am very stoic in my daily life. Nobody can tell what is going through my head. It is funny because when I am the most negative and angry inside I display my most qualities that attract women. I look strong and resolved and with purpose.
I guess that I am different than most people here in how I approach things which is fine, I should probably find another forum or blog to participate in. Every place has their own way and culture, there are other places I can go that share my same outlook. Take care it was great to talk to you all, no hard feelings.