Mark's journey

Mark72

I'm 42. Married for over 10 years, she is 30. We met when she was 19. We got along quite well, even though she tends to be quite bossy. I lived with it, I was ok with it.

Both of us grew up in Christian homes. Her dad was a pastor for 20 years, but got out of the ministry - still a Christian. She was quite naive when we met. She had been with one guy sexually and only a couple times. I have a sexual addiction. Many partners, deep in porn, etc. She knew this going into the marriage. I believe it was her rebellious, end of teenage phase. She actually pursued me after I told her that she was too young for me. But, she is very stubborn and controlling, and I am a codependent with "nice guy" syndrome. I didn't come to this realization until 2012... but more on that later.

We got married a year after we first dated. We had our first kid 4 years later. It was shortly after that when money started getting tight that I was convinced to stay with her parents in their basement "briefly". 2 years later, we are still in their basement... with another child on the way. It's 2 years later and we are no longer getting along well. Her parents are good to me, but it's tense. The tension started when we moved in with her parents and just got worse. I started going back to porn, which is something that I had sworn (to myself and my wife) that I was done and it was behind me. It wasn't. It started with just the websites. I told her about it twice, feeling guilty. She gave me the "Next time, we are done" speech. Well, the ultimatums were successful for a while, but as things got more tense and I gave myself more excuses to go back to it. I also started going into the webcam girl sites.

One time, I forgot to clear the cache (before stealth mode) and since I hadn't cleared the form prefill, she found a signon to the sites. She questioned me about it. I lied, but then came clean - all the way clean. I told her that even when she was in the hospital with complications in the pregnancy, I was webcam chatting. I was immediately kicked out of the house and stayed with another family member.

I went to counseling with my pastor, and begged. And begged. I missed Christmas 2008 with the family. I thought I wasn't going to be there for the birth of my son. But, after a few weeks of hell, she told me to come back. It was about a week before she gave birth. I kept going to counseling with my pastor for a few weeks, but then we swept everything under the rug. We moved out in November of 2009 and bought our 2nd house.

Things were going really well. Sex was amazing - she was wanting to try new things all the time. She wasn't going for watching porn or anything like that, but lots of other things she started to try. She was still the pants-wearer of the family, and I wanted to change it but afraid to rock the boat because everything else was good. She started going back to school to get her RN, as she only had her LPN. We both worked full time and finances were good. She got pregnant for the third time in 2011. In January 2012, she had a miscarriage. We were devastated, but she was much worse off than me. Things changed. She got depressed and angry much more often. Sex slowed way down. Oral sex, which was something that she knew was very important to me, and something that was part of every session, went away. Finances tightened up. In July, right after sex, I started having chest pains. Went to the ER and found out I needed a bypass. Not a heart attack but it was close. The arguments really started to heat up. Over the year, she started using terms like "Needy" and "Clingy" to describe her disgust with me. I decided to also go back to school to better myself.

She decided to go to see "Magic Mike" with her sister. She bought "50 Shades of Grey" and told me how much these things turned her on. When she came back from the movie, she asked what I was thinking. I said, "You dont wanna know". She insisted, and I said something to the effect of watching something together. She asked, "Porn?" I said maybe. That was the beginning of it... Big fight. For the next week or so she was going nuts on me. Hateful, hurtful, anything she could say. I told her that she needs to stop acting like that. She said she didnt want to. I told her she should take a couple days and stay with her parents. So she moved out.

Codependent Mark went into overdrive. I joined the TAM site. Got some help and started to understand a little bit about what the problems were with me. I started going to professional counseling as well as counseling with my pastor, who also has a marriage building ministry. She went to 5 sessions with me. I read No More Mr Nice Guy. I started to put up a bit of a stronger front. It was all an act, but I did it. After a few months, I lost the house. She said we should move in together into a new place, just down the road from her parents... like 1/4 mile on the same street.

Things looked up a little but never really got back to a good state. She was still rude and very bossy. I swept things under the rug, and so did she. My codependence surfaced again and I became needy and clingy again. Sex was limited, but she got pregnant just a month or two after we moved in, and he was born last August. Since things really werent getting better, I asked her to start going back to counseling with me. The house was too small now, but my father, who had been begging me to move into his old house that my brother was staying in, gave me a good offer for rent on it. We didnt renew the lease. A week before we were supposed to move in, it fell through with my dad's house (this was last October, and the house still isnt ready to be rented out).

We had really no choice but to move back in with her parents. Again.

We are still there... since The end of October...

In January, 2 days before our 9th wedding anniversary, she told me that she is done. I am more needy than any woman, and she can't take it anymore. I started talking to my pastor again, and went back to IC. Things seem to go a little better, and she started talking about us getting a place again. Then she started hanging out with some new girl at work - yoga instructor, nurse, skinny, and going through a divorce. But she still has loads of money. My wife must have seen something that she wants to be. She went back to wanting to separate and divorce. I have told her that I am making no moves toward divorce, and will not make a divorce easy.... On Easter, she told me she just wants me to get out. So I packed a bag and stayed at a hotel. The next day she text me and said I can come stay in the basement there at her parents house. Our bedroom was upstairs. So I did. After 2 nights, she asked me to stay upstairs, and that she didn't want to play games anymore and that fir the sake of the kids she wanted to be nice. For a while, things seemed livable. Not good but livable. We still occasionally had sex over the past few months, but she always said the next day that it was a mistake. The last time, in the middle of it, she started crying...

All this time, both her parents have been trying to get us to work it out. They believe that she needs to go to counseling with me. They don't want us to divorce. They don't want me to move out. They want all 5 of us to move out and have a happy marriage. Plus they want their house back, but will not kick their daughter or grandkids out... So she has security there...

Now, last week, I said that I wanted us both to really make an effort to make this a healthy marriage. She should go to counseling with me, we get a place, and really work on it for 6 months... yeah, great idea... back to "I don't want another failed attempt"...

 

Mark72

Cont...

On a side note, all this time, I am still being a nice guy. Still giving her no reason to change. Still giving her massages most nights, mainly because I like touching her and I feel connected for just a brief moment... I don't want to move out, my anxiety level is through the roof... Still reading all I can. Still soliciting advice. But I am getting many different ideas from people I know and trust - I am confused. I know I am codependent. I know what that means. I want to overcome that. I don't want to lose my family. I know that it's bad now. I really do believe that it's salvagable, even though she has no respect for me... It's not healthy, but I'm not ready to give up on the chance that we can have a marriage again with mutual love, respect, trust, and communication. It's just not there right now.

TimSim1971

Have you read the Primer? If not...do that right away. Then the MAP book.

There is a triage that you should do fill out that will allow the more knowledgeable people here help you parse your way through this. You can find it on the Blog. 

Mark72

I have always depended on other people my whole life. I rarely seem to have an original thought, as many of my visual descriptions may lead you to understand. It's kinda like Terminator - I have a list of responses that I have learned over the years. Trouble is, most of the responses are actions of codependency. Gotta wipe em out. Right now, I'm either standing there like a deer in headlights, or I resort to the old "Nice guy" responses...

I am having trouble learning the new way of thinking. It's not like learning to program a remote or work my smartphone. I can figure those things out. It's like I need step-by-step instructions with a title "Overcoming codependency for dummies". With lots of pictures, short words, and arrows...

TimSim1971

@Mark72 You have quite a bit going on there. 

From what I have read..you know something needs to change and you have something of idea of what needs to change. Step 1...check. 

I would suggest you take a look here: http://wildman.newworldscoaching.ca/

@brianC is a moderator here as well. Pretty all around knowledgeable guy. 

Taking some time with the triage questions will also help you parse out what the issues really are...making tackling them much more systematic. 

Conrad

@Mark72,

Do the triage questions as best you can.

There will be a floodtide of suggestions and help in response.

SMan

Hi @Mark72 , you need to get your hands on Athol's Married Man Sex Life Primer ASAP.

http://www.amazon.com/Married-Man-Life-Primer-2011/dp/1460981731/ref=la_B00788530Y_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1400792460&sr=1-1

The problem you have is, you don't know how much . . . you don't know.

You'll find the book a massive eye opener on what you should be doing differently.

BrianC

Welcome, @Mark72, we can definitely help you out.

The first thing to do in order to get the best possible help from us is to fill in the triage questions found here.  You've answered most of them somewhere or another, but it is so much easier to help out when the information is organized.

My specialty is working with Nice Guys and teaching them how to become authentic, assertive, and bold.  I will pay some special attention to this thread as it develops so that I can offer you my particular brand of help. (Thanks for the shout-out @TimSim1971‌!).

The first thing I am going to say is this.  You are not yet in the habit of living life for yourself.  Knowing what you want, and what you need to be happy and making that a priority is way more important than saving this marriage.  If you were to save it , but were still in nice guy mode, it wouldn't last.

So I recommend we begin with the end in mind:  once you have answered the Triage questions, then tell me, if I could conjure up a genie to work miracles with yo, what would you like your life to look like in two years' time?

fordsvt

Could not agree more. I read NMMNG and the primer as well. Started making changes in Nov 2013. My marriage was done or so I thought. 

You can do this. You must must must stick with it and be strong. 

Do not beg implore cry or even try to rationalize. It won't work. Don't be a door mat any longer. I'm still here not separated and working on me and the relationship. It works. Trust me. 

Mark72

Thank you. I've been talking to Conrad a bit prior to coming here.

Mark72

@BrianC, the link you posted led me to route 404....

BrianC

I'll try again.

Reborn

Did you do the exercises in the NMMNG book?

What did you get from the counseling you've done?

Mark72

I read NMMNG 2 years ago. I didn't do all the exercises. I swept everything under the rug when we got back together. My fault, I know.

Reborn

Mark72 said:

I read NMMNG 2 years ago. I didn't do all the exercises. I swept everything under the rug when we got back together. My fault, I know.

I'm not the tinyest bit interested in fault.  But you said something like "I have always depended on other people my whole life", and you mentioned reading NMMNG, and going to counseling, getting advice from people, and now coming here, but you need to get that until you really engage with one of these things, whichever one you choose, nothing will change. It's a waste of time going through the motions of them, as if from behind a glass screen, so that it doesn't hurt.

I know because I've been there. It's easy just to show up here and post, or attend counseling sessions, or read a book. I've done all those things. 

Saying "yes I know its my fault" doesn't make any difference. 

Conrad

C'mon Mark... hit us with the triage

fordsvt

Also stop sweeping this Shit under the rug. You must hit this Head On. Or it will never work.

Mark72

Ok. I am going to statrt answering triage. It may be a book like my opening story.

Mark72

But I may just do it in phases, as I am limited on time

al2682

Just go for it.  Break it into sections.

Mark72

Its worse. We live in HER parents house @Mulder‌ ;