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Zot's Intro and Triage. Possible EA on Wife's Part
Zot
Silver Member Posts: 469
Hello Everyone!
I've been reading several blogs and now, having read Athol's books, am beginning my MAP. We have been through a lot in the last 6 months. Here are my answers to the triage questions:
The Basics:
I am 41 and my wife is 34. We got married in 2003. We dated for 8 months prior to our marriage. We have two boys, ages 10 and 3. I am 5'7, 145 lbs, and would rate myself a 7. My wife is 5'2, 190 lbs, and is about a 6.
Medical:
My wife was diagnosed with Hashimoto's disease (hypothyroidism) after about 4 years into our marriage. She works out (cardio) many times a week, mainly kickboxing and running. She takes Synthroid and has a prescription for Valium. Over the course of our marriage, she's tried many different birth control pills. She is not on birth control now.
My wife was physically and emotionally abused in high school and into college by a boyfriend who ultimately had to be served a restraining order. He impregnanted her, then threatened to kill her family if she didn't get an abortion. When I first met her, she would wake up in the middle of the night, screaming and would run from the bed. I hate that piece of crap and what he did to her. She struggles with this to this day.
My wife has, for almost all of our marriage, required copious amounts of alcohol in order to have sex with me and orgasm. The alcohol helps her disassociate our sex with what he did to her. Three months ago, we both decided it would be best to not drink in our home. I like to drink 2-3 beers several nights a week, but am fine without it. She's doing well without it as well. She only "overdrinks" when we are at home together. She can stop at two glasses of wine when we go out.
As for me, I have been diagnosed with ADD and prescribed Vyvanse. Since taking this drug, I have accomplished more at work and around the house. Since joining a gym 4 months ago, my energy levels have increased to the point where I'm thinking I won't need the Vyvanse anymore. I wasn't able to go to the gym and exercise for most of our marriage due to a sports hernia that prevented me from heavy lifting. I had surgery 6 months ago and now feel like I can lift a car (not gonna happen):). I've made significant improvements to my appearance and feel so much better.
Structural Attraction Issues:
We have really good credit, but a lot of debt that limits our quality of life. When our youngest son begins preschool next year, we will be able to start paying off our debt and start saving for the future. It is a source of lingering stress. We both work, though, and do not feel the pain of the debt at this point.
Critical Moments and Neglect:
We conceived our first child while we were dating and moving to a new city. Upon realizing, one month into our new jobs and a new house, that we were pregnant, I decided to propose and she accepted. We were married two months later.
Within a month, she found my old stash of porn. I promptly destroyed it. In recent months (as in 10 years later), she has made comments, even during sex, like "I can't compare to what you saw". Her body image issues seem to have robbed her of having any normal sex life with me.
For the majority of our marriage, I've been guilty of neglecting her. I believe I've put my job first. She does a similar job to mine at a different location. Our jobs are almost completely symbiotic - her work impacts mine and vis versa. Recently, she told me that she "checked out" of our marriage emotionally about six years ago after not getting enough attention from me. I found this to be devastating. However, her issues with her abusive past, combined with major body image issues, the hypothyroidism, and the multiple birth control pill experiments, forced me to survive the emotional outbursts rather than invest emotionally and affectionately like I (and she) wanted. These aren't excuses. She would agree with them, as she owns these problems. I made many efforts over the years to change, including taking Vyvanse at her request to help improve my focus.
Over the last three years, she's the one that has been neglecting me and our sons by investing more in work and her own personal life. I've resented this. It's been the source of our most heated discussions. Now knowing that she "checked out" six years ago, this makes more sense to me.
Five months ago, one of these heated discussions ended up with her saying she wanted a divorce. She had no plan as to how to go about doing this. She has since backed down from this and is now interested in improving our marriage. She attended a session with a therapist with me.
Other Sexual Sources:
One of the topics that fueled the "I want a divorce" conversation, was her interest in helping a young (about 25 years old), fit (ripped body) temp employee at her work learn how to be more successful at what she does. She was very open about her interactions with him with me. I started monitoring her phone records to see when she was calling, texting, etc. I really believe nothing was going on, but she can be very naive when it comes to the intentions of other men, especially in this situation.
She works very closely with a gay man, with whom she has a close working relationship. She has referred to him as her "work-husband" in front of others. He is in a committed relationship with another man. Her co-worker has served as a shoulder to cry on as she has experienced work stress and problems with me. He also gives her back massages. I consider this to be emotionally cheating on me. This is a problem that I need to address.
I have ruled out any outside sources and have curtailed the amount of time I invest in checking up on her as things have improved between us.
On my end, I used to masturbate one to three times a day. I have done it a total of three times in the last three months. I used to use porn regularly. No use over the last three months.
When did the sex go bad?
Due to the alcohol association, it was only good when we were dating as alcohol wasn't always a tool. Postpartum issues contributed to her lack of desire (fatigue, body image).
(continued in Part Two)
Comments
Part Two of my Intro:
Question 7 - Sex at the beginning of the relationship
It was awesome!!! When were dating, we did it in all sorts of locations where we could get caught, didn't need alcohol to get her going (and orgasming). She orgasms many times in a session. We continued this into marriage, but alcohol became the only way her for her feel comfortable and get past her postpartum body image issues.
Question 8 - Elephant in the Room
I can't decide what elephant it is. Here's the first option: we got married due to the unplanned pregnancy with our first child. We rushed into our marriage after two months of the discovery. The second option: we only stay married because our jobs and children depend on it.
Our 8 year age difference is another challenge to our marriage.
Question 9 - Leader in the marriage
Up until about a year ago, I've felt like the undisputed leader in our marriage. In the last 7 months, I've felt like she's got control over the sex and the day-to-day scheduling decisions. I manage the money exclusively and she defers to me on the big decisions in all areas of our lives (child rearing, career decisions, money). She leads our spiritual lives, as she has more experience.
Question 10 - The good times
We've had many memorable moments where we've enjoyed each other. I think, though, there haven't been as many exciting moments - mostly due to her fears and insecurities. The good times have been spread out over our 10 years together. I still have unfulfilled goals of creating more memories as a family together. Money has prevented most of these.
That should do it for now. And yes, it feels better already to write this stuff down.
Traumatized by the ex-boyfriend but you guys had wonderful, wild sex without alcohol until the first kid came along (and/or, you got married). Then she suddenly needs drinking to cope and 'release'. Not to diminish the trauma of the POS former boyfriend, but something there doesn't quite add up.
"Treating her like a princess didn't make me a prince, it made me a servant."
Link to triage questions: http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
I'm thinking she turned to alcohol when she discovered my porn collection, which has since been destroyed. Her body image issues postpartum may be the reason for the alcohol. Plus, her faith (she's a devout Christian) has sent her mixed messages on sex.
For the last two years, she has been getting good beta from this guy. They spent every minute if the work day teaching together. He is in a committed relationship with another man. It wasn't until I took the red pill that I've been able to realize I've been giving her too much beta at home over this time. Beta at work + beta at home led to all sorts of troubles. I've fixed a lot of this by adding more of my old alpha ways to our marriage with positive results.
I feel like her relationship with her "work husband" (she used this term when our marriage was at its lowest point-pre MAP) is inhibiting her response to my good beta. Also, when I've asked questions like "how much does he know about our marriage?" She downplays it - says she hasn't told hIm anything. I know this isn't the truth - the night she said she wanted a divorce, she was talking with him on the phone for 48 min (I verified the phone record). She literally got off the phone then came in and dropped the D bomb.
Anyways, I've been mapping my ass off and have come a long way in all aspects of my life, including my relationship with my W.
Can anyone help me address this? Should I be concerned that a gay man (he's the sub in his relationship) has what appears to be an EA with my W?
And that frames how you need to look at this. If Gay Man was a married female FO, and behaved in exactly the same way to your wife, would there be a problem?
GM seems to be your wife's best friend. Some best friends are toxic, some are not. The way you tell the difference is to meet him, and then figure it out.
Arrange a 2 couple meeting, over dinner or coffee. Seeing GM in that context will give your worry meter a chance to figure out if GM really is a threat.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
She calls him by a nickname. He gives her shoulder massages when she is feeling tense. She tells me all of this, btw.
He's very knowledgeable in our field. I think one of my alpha traits that attracted my wife to me 11 years ago was my success in my career. I'm still the leader among the three of us, but he's got some good skills as well.
As I piece together the circumstances that led to her wanting a divorce in February, and as I make my improvements, I realize I want more EA with her. I think this relationship with her coworker is an impediment to this.
Should I wait and address this later or start setting boundaries on things like the nickname?
I would expect though anyone with a close relationship to your wife and not knowing the situation would support her in getting a divorce if they have been told negative stories about you.
The real question you need to find out is this person actively working against you or not. If they just want your wife to be in a happy relationship then they aren't an enemy.
The fact that she lies about how much she is telling him about your marriage is a bit of a flag. Based on what you've said it seems that she not only discusses everything with him, but she tells him in detail about her marital problems (ie about you).
By the way, I have never in my life known a gay couple to advertise that one of them is the "sub", even if one of them is, in fact, a 'sub'. You threw it out there as a little fact as if it's a normal and common thing to know about a gay couple, but it's really not. It's actually information about who is giving anal sex to who, and that's pretty fucking private information. It makes me wonder if this fact has been fed to you as a way of signalling to you his lack of masculine traits, and therefore his lack of threat potential.
The bottom line is really the effect on your marriage. Is he just playing the role of a close friend - as a substitute for female friends - or is he a more negative force in your marriage? It would be wrong to torpedo your wife's friendship with this guy over nothing, but on the other hand, it would be just as bad to hamster it away as "just a gay friend" if the 'friendship' is undermining your marriage.
1. Her drinking problem.
I'm sure that being stalked by her ex-boyfriend back in high school was traumatic, but I ain't buying it when it comes to the drinking today, all these years later. That's just an excuse.
Excessive drinking is a problem all on its own.
So how much does she drink?
2. Her outbursts.
You talk about having strategies 'survive' her outbursts so I get the impression these are pretty serious. The fact that she was abused might be an explanation for her abusive behavior but just as it isn't an excuse for the drinking, it isn't an excuse for the way she treats you.
Also, do these "outbursts" happen usually when she's drunk?
3. the young hot co-worker
You may believe nothing was going on, but based on what you've written, there is a question mark in my mind.
4 the gay friend
You have started a separate thread on this issue, and I've commented over there.
I agree, it seems like it's fulfilling the role of an EA to an extent.
I think W is seeking EA with him, although less since I've started my MAP.
I used to be unavailable to her emotionally, so she has sought out other people to fill this need. Now I'm trying to get it back to where I fill that need.
@Frank_London She has never been secretive about relationships with others in 11 years, except between Jan and Feb, when we were arguing and not doing well. Also during that time, she was showing interest in an orbiter from work (single, ripped, 10 years younger than her). They exchanged many texts. Through verifying, I noticed some texts were deleted. She was very open about her interactions with him with me. She even at one point asked if I minded if he taught her how to ride his motorcycle. It was unbelievable - the hamster crap that she was dishing out during that time frame. Btw, I shut that motorcycle shit down. I told her "yes, I have a problem with you wrapping your legs around another man". Her hypergamy was in full swing. Her older friend eventually talked some sense into her and she cut him out.
That is all in the past as I've made my improvements and focused on me. Her phone calls and texts However, I'm concerned that she could stray again before I get to later phases in my MAP, where I can push for my wants and needs.
Has your wife seen a therapist about her issues from the ex-boyfriend?
I wouldn't let her lead in your spiritual life. If you allow someone to feel that they are morally superior to you they could use it as a weapon or it will make you second guess yourself.
I agree with @Frank_London. Her lizard brain only recognizes his dick and her Christian believe that he's making a choice to be gay could be spinning her hamster in overdrive that she could "change" him. I don't know that nuking the friendship is necessary, but certainly drawing some boundaries around it would be appropriate.
Just throwing this out there - would you be able to have a "man to man" with the guy and ask him to be careful around your marriage, without conveying that he personally is a threat, just your wife's hamster with respect to him?
Regarding her past abuse, she got some help after it ended but hasn't seen a therapist in about 12 years. I've asked her to go, but she says she knows what they are going to say, I've already heard it, I can do this on my own, etc.
i started going to church with her as part of my MAP. I was raised Catholic, so this has been an adjustment for me culturally. I can do a better job of leading my boys on the spiritual front.
I may try engaging him in a conversation, coming from a "we are on the same team - to support "W" in order to draw out some info on how much he knows. Then I can draw the boundary. Of course, I risk him seeing this as getting a green light to engage emotionally with my wife.
I agree her lizard brain and faith are contributing to this problem. I haven't found the right words or actions to help her understand this.
In light of that, an EA with a gay man is as bad as an EA with a straight man. I would address it.
2. Outbursts: She doesn't have that much anymore. I've learned to keep calm and not be passive aggressive or emotional so she hasn't either. I'm tracking her cycle so that I know when to up the Alpha/beta. We both agreed a while back that alcohol tended to make our arguments more intense so we've cut back.
3. Young coworker: I try not to think about it, as there is a possibly something could have happened. He was fired from the job that kept him around her, so I'm pretty confident nothing is going on anymore.
I ultimately told her I didn't want her talking with him anymore. Her hamster went into overdrive. After I kept telling her this, I eventually just said "I've said everything I have to say about him". Her older friend said "if one person in the marriage has a problem with a third party, you have to end that relationship". This ultimately ended it. W did not want to though. I read her texts with this guy. Some texts were deleted as other texts referred to things that didn't exist in the thread. The worst thing I read was her saying "I'm so happy you came (to her event)". It was during the lowest point in our marriage.