Zot's Intro and Triage. Possible EA on Wife's Part

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  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    I had my sleep study last night. I had no idea the sleep tech was going to put so many sensors on me. He attached least ten on my head alone, including one up my nose.

    it took me two hours to fall asleep. I got a total of six hours of sleep, which is pretty good considering how challenging it was to change sleeping positions, let alone breathe. I found it amusing that the tech had to put the toddler bed rails on the sides of the bed to prevent me from acting out my dreams. 

    Of course, I didn't do anything out of the ordinary all night.  The doc says I can proceed with CBT if I want.  This could help me get to the root of why I must protect my family in my dreams. I figure it can't hurt. 

    This will make six psychologists/therapists/psychiatrists I will have seen since starting the MAP process two years ago. My wife continues to see our marriage therapist alone. 
    CartB4HorseAngeline
  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    I'm finding myself in some sort of limbo where things around me are changing (kids back to school, work environment, finances improving, etc). I'm trying to stay ahead of potential problems with my wife by leading, but I fear I may navigate us into a bad place that could be worse than what happened 8 months ago. That situation was not my fault. I simply called out my wife for ogling other men on FB and liking their posts and profile pics, which sent her into a tizzy. She is now resuming liking the military Guy's FB posts after eight months. I don't find it to be a coincidence that she declared herself cured and not needing our therapist anymore last month. 

    My wife has been going to the gym every morning at 5:30 AM for the last three weeks. I'm really proud of her. Yesterday, she went to her complimentary gym orientation/personal trainer session. I warned her of the upsell where he will try to convince her to buy more sessions. My warning didn't resonate. This morning, she started pressuring me to spending $200 a month on sessions for her. She's been doing some freelancing work on the side lately for about $50-$100 a week. She asked "how about if I use 'my' money?"  I simply answered "your money?".  Then she started childishly mocking me until we left for work. I will never forget last year when she said "I can always convince you to give me what I want".

    I started thinking about how much more money I've contributed to our marriage and family over the last 13 years. It's over $100k. 

    I'm thinking about the various aspects of my life/MAP now and trying to figure out what my next steps are. 

    Finances: Green. I have a plan to reduce our debt and it's working. We will have our 2015 model car paid off three years early. A yellow issue is what to do then. I have wanted a boat since before we were married. I want us to spend time together as a family out on the water. Most of our weekends are spent cooped up in the house. Wife is yellow on this. She has lots  of fear and insecurity. 

    Mental health: I've been tracking my sleep for the last 10 days. I've had one small nightmare, which my wife let run its course rather than wake me up. She hasn't conplained about my sleep. I did have one night where I only slept for 30 minutes. I spent that time out on the couch. No sense in tossing and turning, keeping my wife awake in the process. 

    Work:  My boss and I met recently and laid everything out on the table. When she chose to not hire a full time assistant to help me for the 2nd year in a row (she said she would, conducted interviews, then pulled the plug at the last minute), I was pissed. In a conversation with a colleague in another department, I said I'd be glad if she was gone next year. I also said some positive things about our boss. Well, that colleague told our boss what I said (the bad part, not the good part of course).  My boss told me this in our meeting. I apologized, but told her we all have strengths and weakness and that she has some weaknesses that really impact me and my department negatively. By the end of the meeting, she was asking for a hug. I told her "ok, but I'm not a huggy person". She said "I'm not either". I've known this woman for 21 years. We've never hugged it out like that. 

    I'm 90% I know who this colleague (snitch) is. He's an opportunistic pos whom our boss is smitten with. My colleagues seem to respect me more. I'm plotting my response to his betrayal. 

    Physical health: I'm stronger than I've ever been. I'm already seeing the benefits to crossing over to the meathead side of the gym from the machine side. I have a bad case of tennis elbow that wakes me up in the morning, but nothing that Advil can't fix. 
  • OneEyedDrunkOneEyedDrunk Out West Silver Member Posts: 1,808
    Hey Man,

    Something stood out to me in some of your posts. Your wife is craving alpha, and isn't getting it as much as she wants. I don't mean alpha asshole or anything. I'm talking about the tough type. 

    What are you doing now to show alpha traits? It sounds like you have a very white collar job which can be alpha at times, but not what your wife wants. 

    She was smitten over the younger guy with his motorcycle. She likes the photos of the soldiers, and tough guys like that. 

    I would recomnend doing something alpha, or maybe take up an activity. My activity is shooting. I've taken my wife a few times to watch, and she always seems to be pretty hot for me that night. Hunting? Karate? Just some examples you might consider. She wants a little Han Solo and less Luke Skywalker. Just my two cents. You may have alpha activities that I don't know of. 
    oneeyeddrunk.weebly.com
    ZotHarry123
  • Harry123Harry123 UkSilver Member Posts: 64
    Zot said:
    I simply called out my wife for ogling other men on FB and liking their posts and profile pics, which sent her into a tizzy. She is now resuming liking the military Guy's FB posts after eight months. I don't find it to be a coincidence that she declared herself cured and not needing our therapist anymore last month. 
    My wife was doing very similar things with the likes and follows and I later found out even making inappropriate comments. Military guys / fitness models - there was clearly a theme that she was looking for physically fit Alpha types. Unfortunately my wife took it one step further to a PA and EA with a Personal Trainer and a Soldier. Wish I had nipped it in the bud at the like stage and become more Alpha at the time.

    In only a couple of months of weekly Thai Boxing and weights I think she is beginning to look at me differently so it doesnt have to wait until you are an expert. I just tell her I go fight with other men in the ring which is a slight exaggeration but she is none the wiser as to how it works.

    I kept (and keep) getting push back on me doing Alpha activities which you may get, eg four weeks ago I told her I was getting a motorcycle licence this year to which I got a "no way will I let you do that" while at the same time she was commenting on some fitness models chest hair while he was sat on a quad bike on Instagram. I'm taking the theory test this month. 
    Zot
  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    @OneEyedDrunk I think your right about being more alpha to the marriage. I have been shooting, but it's been 9 months since I went.  I also played with a famous rock band recently. I fix things around the house. I workout at the gym and am getting good results. I called some meetings this week with our high level supervisors where I will have the opportunity to lead on a pressing issue that is affecting our jobs. Still, I know I haven't been bringing the dopamine lately. 

    @harry123 Like your motorcycle, I've been getting push back on buying a ski boat. I'm over a year away, but will be able to buy one after I pay off the car. We live near water, so there will be lots of opportunities to ski and explore. But until then, I've got to come up with some cool things to do. I'd like to take the family out to the forest to do some target practice. 

    My wife told me all about her introductory fitness assessment/training session. She made sure to include how he pulled his sleeve back to show his shoulder and arm. He told her ""not bad for a 62 year old". 

    Since I challenged her on the trainer sessions, she is researching apps that plan out workouts for her. 
    Angelinewrangler
  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    Things have been going well lately, but not great either. I sense my wife's attraction for me dropping slowly. I feel the need to get some dopamine going fast, but have been hampered by logistics and circumstances out of my control. 

    I've upped the RC lately by fixing things around the house that need to be fixed, folding her laundry for her, etc. I also keep up the drive-bys, to which she responds in a routine, accepting way. 

    One thing that I want her to change is how she responds to affection. Upon hugging/kissing/cuddling her either on the couch or bed, she immediately goes through a list of conditioned responses like "does my breath stink?" "Do I stink?" "You're pulling my hair" "you are crushing my boob" "you're cold" (just got three of those in a row). I approach her with such caution these days, yet I can sense her preparing any of these responses. 

    Also, in the last month, she has been going to the gym with a single 26 year old girlfriend every morning at 6:00 am. She gets pedicures with her as well. I'm glad she is doing this stuff, but I can see the influence it's had on her. My wife has made several out of the ordinary comments since hanging out with her about attractive men. Comments like "wow, he's hot", and referred to a neighbor down the street as "the guy who works in the yard without his shirt all the time - he's a bronzed Norwegian God". I've been staying in front of this by agreeing, but I'm afraid this is just encouraging her. 

    Meanwhile, we were watching tv the other night, and a scantily clad woman was on and she said "you should see your face right now. You look sick with lust. If you want that, you should go get it". She's made these comments in the past - almost like she's projecting her own feelings about attraction outside the marriage on me. It's a BS double-standard. 

    All other aspects of my MAP are going swimmingly. I'm about to go clothes shopping because I've exceeded the limit on many of my sleeves and collars on my shirts due to increased muscle. :)

    I want to stay ahead of any potential crises with my wife. 
  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    The sleep issue is coming between us. She just acknowledged it. I don't know what to do. 

    I have had a sleep study done, followed up with a sleep doctor. I have seen a psychologist and am seeing him again in two weeks. I've kept a sleep diary for two weeks, recording sleep times, diet before bed, how long it takes to go to sleep.  I've cut out Unison and beer during the week. 

    I've had very few nightmares over the last month. I think I've had two. When I have them I leave our bedroom and go sleep on the couch. I don't think I've ever had two in a night but I suppose it shows her I'm trying. 

    When I had a cold last week, I slept on the couch for three nights. 

    Lately I've started snoring. This is really annoying my wife. She wakes me up every time I start. i suggested she wear earplugs. She says she wears only one because she has to be able to hear if our sons need anything. She also says her ears are raw by morning.  She said she's not drinking wine during the week anymore and that that would help her dealing with my sleep issues. 

    I ve lost so much sleep over her snoring over 13 years. But she can't deal with it for a month.

    So her solution is alternating sleeping on the couch. We don't have another bedroom available. 

    On her way to the couch tonight, she was mumbling "I don't know why I have to sleep on the couch. I'm not the one with the problem."
  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    Update:

    I've agreed to sleeping at an incline (we have an adjustable bed) to see if it helps with my snoring. According to my wife, it has. We've been sleeping this way for two weeks now. No issues. At least on my side of the bed. She, on the other hand, alternates between a jet engine taking off and a sleeping bulldog. 

    This morning, she woke up with severe neck pain. Could barely move. I upped the beta, finding her muscle relaxers, heating pad, etc. I got the boys ready for school and dropped them off. 

    She just texted me that she needs to remove all stressors in her life and stop worrying. Well, over the last three weeks, I've done 95% of the household duties (laundry, cleaning), 100% of the yard work and house maintenance, and almost all of the cooking. I've kept my sons occupied and stimulated while she has attended optional seminars and engaged in freelance work, mostly for her own benefit. I've managed to go to the gym 4+ days a week and have cut beer consumption to one day a week (from six days a week). She has no stressors at home. In fact, she's living the highlife as far as I am concerned. 

    I've recently decided to take on the domestic duties because I'm sick of living in a shithole. I also want to model cleanliness and responsibility to my sons. I also was curious if she was going to hit a stress wall on her own as she has taken on way too much unnecessary crap lately outside of work. Like clockwork, she has. And she can't pin one but of it on me. 

    She says her neck pain is due to her caring too much about what other people think about her. She also says she has too much going on. She says today that stops. We'll see how that goes. I'm not holding my breath. 

    On another topic, I looked at her phone for the first time since December today. I read a few text exchanges between her and the firefighter guy who lives 2 hours away. He has taken over some of her responsibilities related to our professional organization. He needs advice from her from time to time. He has been experiencing health problems lately. His texts were basically a victim puke. Hers were supportive and encouraging. I get a fraction of that amount of caring and support from her. 

    He posted about his health problems on FB (I'm friends with him, as is my wife). It's notable that she didn't post her concerns for his health there along with his other friends for them (and me) to see. 

    Also, Saturday night, after her seminar, she went to dinner with other participants. She said she was going with two male colleagues that I know and don't consider threats. One of those men posted on FB that he was happy to have dinner with three colleagues, including my wife. He tagged all three people in his post. She didn't mention the other guy, who is an attractive college student. She is now friends with him on FB. I will bet money she friended him. I don't consider him a threat, but the fact that she never mentioned this guy reeks of guilt and cover-up. 

    The last time I caught her in these types of behaviors we ended up sleeping in separate rooms for over a month and spent over $2,500 in therapy. I don't know how to address this without it blowing up again. 
    amblrgirl
  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    Last night, after my wife gave me all of these compliments, she put it into action. We had our first marathon session in months. And we 69'd for the first time in our 14-year marriage. She said several times "I love having you in my
    mouth". I never thought I'd hear those words. 

    I had to navigate through some mixed messages throughout. She would say "ravish me" and then say things like "I feel vulnerable.", "You're not going to hurt me are you?", or "you're not going to cheat on me are you?".  She would say these things while I was going down on her. I reassured her and then proceeded to give her several Os. 

    While I need to see more consistent responses from her over time, I'm starting to see that I had not been giving enough RC to make her feel safe. She has PTSD and anxiety issues so it can be difficult for me to figure out what works and what doesn't. I've been consistent with giving more RC the last two months. 

    Over this time, she has been taking on a crapload of extra stuff, some of it work related and some for her personal enjoyment.  When she asks me if she can add yet another thing to her schedule, I've been saying "I support your decision" and then proceed to pick up the slack by cleaning the kitchen, doing laundry, etc without pointing it out to her how much I'm doing. In her absence, I do cool, fun things with our sons as well. 

    Over this time, she's noticed that we've grown apart a little (not talking as much about our day, events at work, etc). She confronted me two nights ago "you're holding something in". I said "I support your decisions to do all of these extra things. I just have to trust that you will have enough time and energy left at the end of the day/week/month for our marriage and sons. Sometimes you take on too much and then your neck or back seize up, causing you to miss work". This seemed to resonate with her. She's been acting more appreciative ever since. 

    al2682nubbyIrishGypsy
  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    Good girl vs Whore

    My wife is struggling with this and I'm not sure how to handle it, after having tried to deal with it in the past by using positive reinforcement and encouragement ("I love what you did last night.", "you were awesome", etc). 

    Two nights ago, we 69d again and it went great. The next morning, I texted her.
    Me: "just got a boner thinking about last night. You were awesome! (With some emojis)".
    W: "I always feel weird when you say things like that. Like my worth is tied to my performance or something . Not sure why. But it makes me feel weird."
    Me: I'm just expressing appreciation. That's all. You are worth more than that obviously. Nothing wrong with celebrating a good romp with my wife. 
    W: I know that's not what you intend. But since everybody's all like I'm gonna say what I feel right now, I figured I just tell you.
    Me: lol. I love you bunches. 

    Then last night, she was green again so I initiated. During kissing, she says "I just want you to take me". So I was more dominant than usual. We 69d again for longer this time. After that, she reverted to starfish during PiV. She was off like a light switch.  I went ahead and came. 

    I held her afterwards and she told me she felt like a whore. This morning, she says "I think I have strep throat". 

    Any ideas on how to address her rationalizations?
  • OneEyedDrunkOneEyedDrunk Out West Silver Member Posts: 1,808
    Zot said:
    Good girl vs Whore

    My wife is struggling with this and I'm not sure how to handle it, after having tried to deal with it in the past by using positive reinforcement and encouragement ("I love what you did last night.", "you were awesome", etc). 

    Two nights ago, we 69d again and it went great. The next morning, I texted her.
    Me: "just got a boner thinking about last night. You were awesome! (With some emojis)".
    W: "I always feel weird when you say things like that. Like my worth is tied to my performance or something . Not sure why. But it makes me feel weird."
    Me: I'm just expressing appreciation. That's all. You are worth more than that obviously. Nothing wrong with celebrating a good romp with my wife. 
    W: I know that's not what you intend. But since everybody's all like I'm gonna say what I feel right now, I figured I just tell you.
    Me: lol. I love you bunches. 

    Then last night, she was green again so I initiated. During kissing, she says "I just want you to take me". So I was more dominant than usual. We 69d again for longer this time. After that, she reverted to starfish during PiV. She was off like a light switch.  I went ahead and came. 

    I held her afterwards and she told me she felt like a whore. This morning, she says "I think I have strep throat". 

    Any ideas on how to address her rationalizations?
    Maybe be a little less descriptive with her about how you felt in your text. My wife is the same way. She likes when I compliment her in person, but does not appreciate it by text. I've had to learn that the hard way. Say something such as "Thinking about last night made me smile". Maybe send her a non-sexual meme to get the point across. 
    oneeyeddrunk.weebly.com
    WheelManZotAdamBecker
  • ZotZot Silver Member Posts: 469
    edited December 7
    Here are my latest thoughts on where I stand with my wife. 

    It's been a year since I confronted my wife over her trolling/liking a guy's posts on FB. That confrontation led to two months of her sleeping in our son's bed. It also cost us over $2,500 in therapist bills. 

    Despite all of the therapy, I really don't think anything has changed with her and us. I have changed. I'm more productive around the house. I've handled many contentious situations at work and am coming out on top. I'm stronger and healthier. I credit MMSL and Athol's helpful books with this. 

    Here's how I see the problem. My wife works very hard to be perfect. So much so that it makes her anxious. At work, she has complete control over how other people see and treat her. No one would ever criticize her because there's no real opportunity to do so. She also has control over many people. 

    When she comes home, she loses that control. When I or my oldest son accidentally point out that she's wrong about something where she's actually right, she calmly and politely explains it to us. However, when we are right and she is wrong, we either get mocked, DARVOed or both. In the case of her FB trolling, where I caught her in the wrong and she knew it but was trying to hide it, I get the all-out tantrum. 

    After declaring herself cured to our therapist several months ago, she returned to see him today. She says nothing significant came out of the session. She didn't even bring up the excessive drinking she's been doing lately. 

    I think she has a crush on him. She asked me a few weeks ago if I thought it would be appropriate for her to friend him on FB. He's a very prominent therapist in town. I actually had to explain to her that doing that would have very negative ramifications to our careers. She didn't friend him. I'm beginning to think that FB is a love language to her. 

    I have never told him everything from my point of view. I think it's time for me to see him alone. 

    I'm not in a position to deliver a solid Phase 4 right now. Standing my ground with her means I have to be ready for her to escalate to divorce talk. 
    Blackwulf
  • BlackwulfBlackwulf Leading the pack. Silver Member Posts: 1,782
    What are you wanting out of the phase 4?  It seemed your marriage had been on an upswing. 

    Facebook is about validation and attention seeking.  I really don't see how it gives relationship comfort.  
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