My Wife is Becoming Another Person

Serenity

I think it's normal to have some anxiety about a marriage that's in a state of flux. I would certainly have concerns if my husband's beliefs and ideas were drastically changing.

We say it so much that it's become a cliche, but this is really where you taking leadership is going to make a big difference. 

Be that solid rock your wife can lean on during this period of instability. Pull her into your frame of strength, rather than being pulled into her frame.

Do some internal work on your own faith beliefs and make it so appealing that she wants to come along for the ride.

In the past, it sounds like certain parts of your faith practices were stressful and didn't produce joy. That's the part that needs to change. Many people are able to practice their faith with joy and peace. Let that be your goal and be the magnet that pulls your wife in. 

It's hard for a woman to resist a man who's strong, confident, positive and joyful. Become that man and I don't think you'll have need to worry about your wife straying. 

Crashaxe

If I were in @OneEyedDrunk‌ 's position, I would have some natural concerns too. 

Obviously this subject is hitting hot buttons for other members as well.

He comes here to vent and express his thoughts to discuss them. A couple of the comments directed towards him have had as much of a "Thought Police" vibe as some hard core churches would give him.

Athol_Kay

Actually I believe the flashpowder was largely from @TPoke's comment "While Atheism doesn't equal immoral all the time", which sounds to an atheist just as horribly offensive as "While being a Catholic priest doesn't equal pedophile all the time" does to a catholic. Or say "While being a man doesn't equal being a rapist all the time" does to men.

Overall, I think the responses have been rather restrained @Crashaxe.

Mongrel

OneEyedDrunk said:

I don't believe atheists can have a moral compass. The reason I believe this is essentially an atheist can make their moral compass to whatever they want. It can be ever changing to fit the circumstances. 

My words in bold for easy distinguishability (which apparently isn't a word,lol). 

I'm definitely not putting you down. It's just my viewpoint. 

We may have to agree to disagree here, but I would encourage you to do some reading about what morality is and how it applies to humans in general, and atheism in particular. At the risk of coming off as insulting, I'd say you are currently 'uneducated'. Let's face it; this is all new to you, and there is a learning curve.   A person who has only recently been introduced to Judaism/Christianity/pick your favorite would have a lot of studying to do as well. Most atheists whether they know it or not generally mimic Humanism.  If your wife were to read the Humanist Manifesto, she would probably agree with it (or most of it, as most people do with their religion of choice). Read it, and maybe it will bring you at least a modicum of relief:  http://americanhumanist.org/Humanism/Humanist_Manifesto_III

That being said, I'm not pushing my views on her. 

Wise. That never works, particularly about something this personal.

One part of me is extremely happy I left that church, and the other part of me realizes I have something missing. I'm not sure what it is missing. I just feel empty at times. 

The biggest thing you're probably missing is the sense of community. Even this atheist understands that (and I can even admit to missing it a bit myself). I recommend you do seek out a church that better fits your idea of worship. Your wife probably won't have an interest in joining you, but this is something you do for YOU, like most MAP things.

Someone else suggested that if you lead strongly, she will follow. On this issue, I respectfully disagree.  A person's belief in a higher power or lack thereof is an extremely personal thing. The majority of folks never do serious self-examination of this facet of their lives; they just accept and follow what they have been taught. I disagree with that method, but it's what most people do. Those who really ask themselves the tough questions and do the hard work are much less likely to be swayed by the influence of another person. When you've come to a true, introspective and honest assessment of what you believe to be true, it's not something that changes easily. (Going from agnostic to atheist is a pretty common progression...I raise my hand for that as well)

I would really examine what it is you FEAR about this change.  What do you expect it to change in the dynamic of your daily life?  Removing temporarily the aspects of raising children and attending services, what negatives are you worried about?

Olddog

Gah!

I'm so offended you think I have no moral compass, it's leaving me speechless.

I completely agree with @Scarlet, maybe it's time to reevaluate what you think is the meaning of 'good Christian.' Would it make a difference in your life if you just became a 'decent human being'?

Rico

MILF_in_training said:

Liberal churches are more likely to accept being a stop on your journey, not the final destination. They are less likely to freak if someone questions the basics of faith. They'll give you a way to keep religion in the kids' lives, and serve as a social community. And who knows? It might be the right place for you.

Don't want to get lost in the weeds here, but I'm gonna have to disagree with this - I've dealt with one of the more liberal denominations throughout my career, and my experience is that they can be just as prone towards fundamentalist/cult-like thinking as the most conservative churches - just in the opposite direction.  

Try arguing for the physical resurrection or virgin birth; that the Bible is the inerrant word of God; be against gay marriage, abortion on demand, female elders; that "social holiness" != sanctification, etc., and you will get run out on a rail. Not *all* of the members/congregations are that hardline, but more than enough are - it's not simply outliers or a loud minority. 

JellyBean

How are things with you, OED?

A great many people who leave the LDS church do have a phase where they experiment with a great many things that are forbidden to LDS.  Right or wrong, many LDS believe that the entire universe of "forbidden" things are equally bad.  Wearing normal underwear or drinking coffee is equally as sinful as having anal sex with your friend's husband.  So sometimes when people leave the LDS church they experiment with some of these "forbidden" activities, and like rebellious teenagers, they occasionally swing far to the other end of things before they even out and realize that they can still live normal, happy, healthy lives without engaging in drunken orgies every weekend.

I can see how it might concern you that your wife might be at risk for leaving your marriage once she left the church.  It seems to me unlikely that she would want to return to church, any church, but she seems to still want to be your wife and to look to you as a leader.

Your comment about the tattoos struck me as interesting.  You are certainly entitled to have an opinion about how your wife might modify her body.  But tattoos are not necessarily indicative of any particular mindset of the people who sport them.  I agree with you that a lot of people who leave the church get tattooed.  But that doesn't make them bad people, or sinners.  On the spectrum of things that a spouse could do that would affect the marriage, having a tattoo seems a lot less serious than sexual cheating.

Have you had any new thoughts about this topic?

Serenity

@JellyBean  

Many people have a perception that women with tatoos are more promiscuous and according to at least one study, women with tatoos are approached more frequently by men. 

The perceptions may not be fair or accurate, but they exist.

JellyBean said:

How are things with you, OED?

A great many people who leave the LDS church do have a phase where they experiment with a great many things that are forbidden to LDS.  Right or wrong, many LDS believe that the entire universe of "forbidden" things are equally bad.  Wearing normal underwear or drinking coffee is equally as sinful as having anal sex with your friend's husband.  So sometimes when people leave the LDS church they experiment with some of these "forbidden" activities, and like rebellious teenagers, they occasionally swing far to the other end of things before they even out and realize that they can still live normal, happy, healthy lives without engaging in drunken orgies every weekend.

I can see how it might concern you that your wife might be at risk for leaving your marriage once she left the church.  It seems to me unlikely that she would want to return to church, any church, but she seems to still want to be your wife and to look to you as a leader.

Your comment about the tattoos struck me as interesting.  You are certainly entitled to have an opinion about how your wife might modify her body.  But tattoos are not necessarily indicative of any particular mindset of the people who sport them.  I agree with you that a lot of people who leave the church get tattooed.  But that doesn't make them bad people, or sinners.  On the spectrum of things that a spouse could do that would affect the marriage, having a tattoo seems a lot less serious than sexual cheating.

Have you had any new thoughts about this topic?

OneEyedDrunk

Serenity said:

@JellyBean  

Many people have a perception that women with tatoos are more promiscuous and according to at least one study, women with tatoos are approached more frequently by men. 

The perceptions may not be fair or accurate, but they exist.

JellyBean said:

How are things with you, OED?

A great many people who leave the LDS church do have a phase where they experiment with a great many things that are forbidden to LDS.  Right or wrong, many LDS believe that the entire universe of "forbidden" things are equally bad.  Wearing normal underwear or drinking coffee is equally as sinful as having anal sex with your friend's husband.  So sometimes when people leave the LDS church they experiment with some of these "forbidden" activities, and like rebellious teenagers, they occasionally swing far to the other end of things before they even out and realize that they can still live normal, happy, healthy lives without engaging in drunken orgies every weekend.

I can see how it might concern you that your wife might be at risk for leaving your marriage once she left the church.  It seems to me unlikely that she would want to return to church, any church, but she seems to still want to be your wife and to look to you as a leader.

Your comment about the tattoos struck me as interesting.  You are certainly entitled to have an opinion about how your wife might modify her body.  But tattoos are not necessarily indicative of any particular mindset of the people who sport them.  I agree with you that a lot of people who leave the church get tattooed.  But that doesn't make them bad people, or sinners.  On the spectrum of things that a spouse could do that would affect the marriage, having a tattoo seems a lot less serious than sexual cheating.

Have you had any new thoughts about this topic?

I hold the stereotype to be accurate, but it of course depends on where the tattoos go. I was really just venting more than anything when I made the comment about the tattoo. My wife seems unlikely to get one after further thought and observations. 

Cowboy

All, reading the last couple of pages we're so off course I'm not sure if we're helping OneEyedDrunk at all.  I can't tell what the original question was at this point from where we are.

I do think he has a valid concern that his wife might be getting sucked into something that is not good for the health of his marriage.  Whether we agree with her religion, or whether she has a right to those beliefs, are separate questions.

OneEyedDrunk

JellyBean said:

How are things with you, OED?

A great many people who leave the LDS church do have a phase where they experiment with a great many things that are forbidden to LDS.  Right or wrong, many LDS believe that the entire universe of "forbidden" things are equally bad.  Wearing normal underwear or drinking coffee is equally as sinful as having anal sex with your friend's husband.  So sometimes when people leave the LDS church they experiment with some of these "forbidden" activities, and like rebellious teenagers, they occasionally swing far to the other end of things before they even out and realize that they can still live normal, happy, healthy lives without engaging in drunken orgies every weekend.

I can see how it might concern you that your wife might be at risk for leaving your marriage once she left the church.  It seems to me unlikely that she would want to return to church, any church, but she seems to still want to be your wife and to look to you as a leader.

Your comment about the tattoos struck me as interesting.  You are certainly entitled to have an opinion about how your wife might modify her body.  But tattoos are not necessarily indicative of any particular mindset of the people who sport them.  I agree with you that a lot of people who leave the church get tattooed.  But that doesn't make them bad people, or sinners.  On the spectrum of things that a spouse could do that would affect the marriage, having a tattoo seems a lot less serious than sexual cheating.

Have you had any new thoughts about this topic?

Things are going really good right now. I have not mentioned any of my concerns, and I don't plan on it. They are just that at this point-concerns. We've actually been out of the church for close to 4 years. We have a few friends in and out of the church, but honestly the new friends we have are much needed. I work out of the home, and have some level of isolation due to the fact that I work alone a great deal of my day. It's good for both of us. She works in man office with actual coworkers. 

Many things you mention above are where my wife and I are at. We don't wear our garments, we drink alcohol (I got her started on a tropical vacation shortly after we stopped going), and she drinks coffee. I can't stand coffee which is why I don't drink it. 

The interesting thing is she has said all along (until recently) that she believes in God, and that is where she was at. After we left the church we rebounded to another conservative church. I found it hard to wear a "wife-beater" and show up and worship which was one of the reasons we chose that church. We were treated like trophies more than new members. We didn't go back after we were baptized there for that reason. 

She has said she resents organized religion for a few years, and I kind of just put it on the back burner every time she would put down the idea of us going to find another church. She brings up how I hated going to the LDS church (true). I think a part of her is afraid of going to another church given how we were in the past. 

------She just woke up. Will post more in a little while.---------------

OneEyedDrunk

Alright I'm back. She's actually in an orgasm coma. We are on vacation for the next week. 

Getting back to her views. Recently she's been reading a ton of anti Mormon stuff online. It didn't really bother me much until she started saying she was an atheist. That concerns me quite a bit, but I'm keeping my cool. We talked the other night, and I was asking her when her views started changing. She really didn't have an answer, but she did say it was somewhat new. It was a very non-confrontational discussion. I talked a little about my views. She says I had it easy leaving compared to her as I was more of a cultural Mormon than anything. Whereas she attended BYU and had really studied up on things. 

I was teasing her a little last night after we were fooling around. I teased her about a little back-door action. "it's ok babe, you're an atheist now". She just laughed and said she was more of an agnostic. Who knows. 

I'm not going to dwell on things too much. I'm going to watch her actions more than her words. I dunno. It seems like maybe she doesn't know. We aren't fighting at all, and we had sex many nights this week. Almost a record which seems to be good. 

Olddog

My 0.02? She's sharing and you're non judgmental - she's feeling that.

Awesome frame!

Athol_Kay

Isn't the irony that you're on an atheist hosted forum talking like she's falling in with the wrong crowd?

Maria

The category, not the forum  

OneEyedDrunk

Athol_Kay said:

Isn't the irony that you're on an atheist hosted forum talking like she's falling in with the wrong crowd?

The concepts for this website are very relevant for people of faith as well. 

Dia_Diana

I think your W is on a spiritual quest to find out if what she has believed in is true. May be she was disappointed from the religious system that you belonged to and is reassessing it as well as her own views about God. This that she now sees herself as atheist doesn't mean she may not conclude otherwise after a while. In my opinion you should leave her some space to reach the answer on her own... Her moral views may change in the process but I doubt it will be a drastic change. Why don't you discuss what you think about God together? Listen to her opinion with respect and share what you think too.  I think that it doesn't matter which church or religion you belong to or not belong to because God doesn't need mediators. Concentrate on your belief in God... not on finding a church. Good luck!

 

RangerJohn

OneEyedDrunk said:

Monkeys_Uncle said:

Your success with UU churches can depend highly on your area.   I tried a similar tactic when we lived in a larger city and the UU church there was basically a gay church.   Straight folks were welcome but stuck out like a sore thumb.      

Yeah, not sure I want that for my family. Thanks! Probably other churches similar to check out. 

Check out the Cowboy Churches. Started to cater to the folks who felt shunned because they did not wear suits or dresses. The one I attend is based on AG denomination. Laid back...blue jeans or shorts. You do not have to be a rancher or farmer to attend...I'm a Tx parole officer and several cops and two electric company employees I know also attend.

Eightbit

This is off topic but I don't care.

This stereotype in the US that atheists are somehow immoral, evil people has got to change, and that starts with religious people not automatically judging someone based on what that person chooses to believe or not believe.  Judge the person's actions.

Pirouette and I are atheist, and I'm a pastor's son.  I've seen some truly disgusting things done by people who claim to worship Jesus. I don't jump to conclusions about that person's religion, I judge then based on their actions.  Here in the south I do not reveal my atheist tendencies to anyone until I really get to know them.  I do that to avoid the ramifications of their religion's ignorance.

SaigoTakamori

OneEyedDrunk said:

Athol_Kay said:

Isn't the irony that you're on an atheist hosted forum talking like she's falling in with the wrong crowd?

The concepts for this website are very relevant for people of faith as well. 

@oneeyeddrunk ;  I would like you to read those statements again and then think for a moment.. do you really need the label?  "christian" or is it the contents you seek? "living a moral life as the Christ intended"   What is more important to you?  Answer that question and you may find solace.