Triage

darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

I posted an intro a few weeks ago that was probably lacking in detail to get started here, so here is my triage to fill in a lot more information about my wife and I's relationship and sex life.

1)      Basic Questions:

    So my wife and I went to the same highschool but were both mostly socially withdrawn and so while we knew each other and occasionally hung out (inside school)  we never quite hit it off. After we had each been in College for a semester, we ended up speaking again and hanging out.. I remember not being at all afraid of rejection or even planning on anything necessarily happening.. but after some drinking and card games we definitely hit it off. Our sex life started then and we shortly considered ourselves dating steadily. Early on we were very sexually active, frequently having sex multiple times a day when we were together and she soon stayed over with me roughly half of the time, early on I remember us having sex just about every night if not multiple times. Perhaps worth noting here as well we had both had one sexual partner (that we went all the way with) before we started our relationship.. interestingly it was the same girl (she was curious and open minded, and the girl was bi. She says women don’t really do anything for her and her actions have always seemed consistent with that). Early on neither of us came while making love until we learned our bodies better, at which point I started frequently making her come multiple times in a session, sometimes up to 3 or 4, so at that point (maybe 4 or 5 months in) our sex life was amazing. Over time however her sex drive has diminished, sometimes to the point of not wanting have sex for a few weeks at the time and shooting down every request I made.

    How we met aside, we later married at 21 while we were both still attending school (I still am). We have now been married for about a year and a half. She graduated and is working a full time job, while I am working a full time job and working on completing my degree by the end of this year. Both of our jobs are relatively stable and we both have a good reputation ( working for the same company in different departments).  I am roughly 6’1” and 260 lbs. She is probably 5’8” or so and weighs 195. So obviously neither of us are thin but she just about definitely has a higher SMV than I do. Realistically I would rate myself at a 2 or 3 and her at a 4 (I know.. bad.. first order of business for my MAP..), although we both have the potential to make it up to the 6/7 range.

 

2)      Rule Out Medical:

    This is an area that may be at least part of our problem.  I won’t go into detail on the causes to preserve anonymity she has developed back problems over the past few years that sometimes result in sex being painful, especially positions that put strain on her back of course. Several months after we started dating she went on the pill and only recently came off of them amidst my concerns that they may be affecting her sex drive. While these are issues that may be contributors, I don’t feel they are a primary reason, even if there is a little pain she doesn’t usually mind at all when she is in the mood.

3)      Rule Out Structural Attraction Issues:

    There are definitely some structural Attraction issues that we need to deal with. Not the least of which is that we are both overweight and have (I at least) grown increasingly so over time. This is definitely something that I am working on.

    I have a good job and a good reputation in it, and haven’t lost a job (only been promoted) since I started working full time a few years ago. However one issue that has at times cropped up between us is that she finished her degree on time and I have slacked off to the point that I’m several years behind on it. This seems to be mainly a motivation issue on my part, frequently between working full time and spending time doing things I enjoy (playing video games and watching shows and such mainly) I tend to procrastinate on schoolwork until it just doesn’t get done at all and I fail classes as a result. As long as I pass all classes going forward this should be the last semester of that being a problem.

    A final consideration that may have an effect at least in the immediate future is that we just bought a house and are ‘in-debt’ for the first time in our relationship and starting to pay serious bills. This will likely cut into the level of discretionary spending we have each been able to do thus far.

4)      Rule Out Critical Moments and Neglect:

    There have been a few cases where school as mentioned above became a big issue between us and she has been highly upset with me for not performing as she knows I can. Although she is still disappointed I am on track to finally graduate, although perhaps the damage is done, apologizing will do not good until I graduate and she isn’t worried about our future because of it.

Comments

  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

    5)      Rule Out Outside Sexual Sources:

        She is a huge fan of romance novels, and will frequently go on binges of reading them. This has always been a hobby of hers long before we started dating. She also has a toy collection that I largely bought for her over time trying to get her more interested in sex when we started falling behind. There have been times where she used them when she was at home and I wasn’t and I became upset because she used the toys but wasn’t interested in having sex. She says sometimes she just wants the release without having to have sex. I’ve tried to not be jealous or begrudge her this but have at times let the jealousy get to me and acted like a brat as a result. Although she likes using the toys sometimes (solo or with me) she doesn’t like using them all the time. I’ve also learned this way that ‘Logic’ does not wet panties make. Finally she sometimes watches porn, typically erotica type things but generally pretty hardcore as well.

        Although I typically refrain unless it has been a long time since she has responded to my advances and had sex with me. I sometimes watch porn and masturbate as well, and have a fleshlight that I got to try to avoid feeling jealous (if she uses toys I can use mine too was my thinking).. It nearly never sees any use.

    6)      When Did the Sex Go Bad:

        Just from the timing I suspect that the sex went bad largely when we both started working (being stressed our decreases her sex drive and unfortunately increases mine). Also at some point if she didn’t come while having sex she started being extremely sensitive and almost angry directly afterward. Although I nearly always try she usually doesn’t let me try to finish her manually or orally and usually shuts down and doesn’t respond to me at all until she falls asleep. She typically isn’t angry the next day but of course it makes me feel pretty shitty.. it feels the least like lovemaking of anything I’ve ever seen when she does that.

        Other factors that probably contributed are the onset of birth control pills and issues that we had at the time with my schooling that somewhat damaged her attraction to me.

    7)      What Was the Sex Like at the Start of the Relationship?:

        New, frequent, and sexy. We both learned a lot about sex with each other early on since we are essentially each other’s first real partners. Part of what I really liked/like about her is that she genuinely seemed to have a high libido, we even frequently joked early on that she was a horndog =D. Interestingly at this time she sometimes masturbated (as did I) but I felt no jealousy because I was sexually satisfied and didn’t feel like she was ignoring my needs while doing so.

    8)      What’s the Elephant in the Room:

        Unquestionably school and perhaps to a lesser extent our weight problems. When these two areas are improved as hopefully they will be in the near future our relationship will be in a much better place. I am another part of the problem in that I still struggle with not wanting to leave her at home alone because of the fear that she will get herself off and still turn me down for sex. Although I’m not against masturbation per se I always feel somewhat like I’m being cheated on when she does that while I’m not sexually satisfied. It rubs me the wrong way to think that she is generally indifferent to my sexual needs/wants but can still be bothered to rub one out without me when I’m not around.

     

    9)      Who is the Leader in your Marriage?:

        This one is kind of strange for us. She has nearly always deferred to me or at very least spoken with me about major decisions, but by and large I am fairly happy with whichever way we go on a lot of things, so I will voice my opinion and determine whether or not we ‘can’ do something. There have been very few times in our relationship where I have put my foot down and said that we or she either could not or had to do something. In short in many cases she is the instigator of making major changes and I either approve or disapprove of them. I probably need to take a more active leadership role in the relationship and begin making moves rather than essentially acting as an advisor/manager.

     

    10)   Tell Us About the Good Times:

        We’ve had a lot of good times, I can remember weeks and months spread through our marriage where we both seemed content with all aspects of our relationship, where we hung all over each other and truly enjoyed each other’s company a lot of the time. It may be the result rather than the precursor to this, but in most of those times I remember feeling fairly confident and unworried about things in general. Right now we are in one of those stages. I would like to think in part this is because she has noticed me starting to step up to the plate in more areas of our relationship to take command and build her attraction to me again.

     

        That’s pretty much it for my triage, if anyone has any further questions feel free to ask and I’ll be watching this thread for answers. Also for reference I have read Primer and will probably buy MAP shortly to start filling out the specific goals I have and track my plan.

  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,583

    The school thing can be a big negative. I did the same thing and I'll tell you it was a bigger problem for her than I realized. She still gets pissed about it 20 some years later. I became really successful and make many times more than she does.  Didn't completely erase that.  Make sure you drive on and finish it out without delay.

    You're losing the weight. Keep it going. You have an advantage in that department being a guy. Cut the calories way back and you can drop 5lbs a week.  In a couple months you'll look and feel like a different person.  That change will make it visibly obvious to her something changed.  If you can, upgrade your dress at the same time.  Lifting some weight would be icing on the cake.

    And yeah, don't just be the approver, make the plans. There's a post somewhere about leadership moments. They work, use them.  Maybe someone can link to it (I'm on my phone so not easy). 

    Doesn't sound like you have a huge hill to climb. Do the basics with gusto and I'll bet you see big changes within a couple months. 

    TigerTennee
  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

    @The_Dude Yeah we have had several discussions about the school thing.. before we were married she was just about to the point of leaving and discussed that she didn't know if she could stay.. not because of school itself per se but because she is afraid of what the repercussions could be on other areas of our life if I similarly let them fall behind. I convinced her to stay and we have been relatively successful in spite of me still being in school. I should graduate after this fall and hopefully move more toward my desired career path (Software Development) over the next few years.

  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

    Good point, I'm starting to cut back on playing video games some and will try to use more of that time to stay up on school work (starts next week) and exercise at least 20 minutes every day.

    Yesterday when my wife and I got home from work I tried initiating, went as far as fingering her and she didn't object and let out a few gasps when I hit her g spot.. but she essentially gently pushed me away and got up and got dressed 0.o . I know the thing to do then is OI.. I'm having quite a bit of trouble concentrating on something else instead of biding on and being upset about the rejection though, it also seems to turn me off to initiating again.

  • August_WestAugust_West New JerseyMember Posts: 127

    I'll impart the advice given to me after my triage, @darth_dread --- just keep MAPing, and keep initiating. Keep trying to break through your feelings of rejection - they are valid, but they are also counter-productive. You know what you want, go get it.

  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

    A quick question related to a theme of the triad.. I'm at the point in reading MAP where masturbation especially using porn is discouraged. The book is largely angled at men so I'm curious if this is something I should try to discourage my wife from doing as well. We have had issues with this in the past, mostly me feeling cheated that she masturbates sometimes and then turns me down for sex.. bringing on jealousy.. etc.. It's worth mentioning here that while she isn't exactly glad I do my wife is absolutely not concerned if I masturbate, there have been plenty of occasions where I did so right next to her with no response on her part.. she's generally not even remotely interested.

    Also I have no problem at all with her masturbating with me present.. and we sometimes (although infrequently) do together if she doesn't really want full blown sex.

    During conversations we have had about this it has come up that me masturbating takes away from our sex life, but she feels her masturbating can actually make her more sexually interested (there does seem to be a limited amount of overflow from her being aroused like that into when I come home).

    So to come full circle given the circumstances is it justifiable for me to ask her not to because we don't have sex as often as I would like? If so how should I go about bringing it up?

    The other real possibility here is that me being concerned about this is simply a neurosis on my part that I need to get over.. It is certainly her body and getting herself off isn't cheating.

  • OlddogOlddog CanadaSilver Member Posts: 743
    I suggest you go read through this thread for some more perspective. (Note @Tennee's post on making his wife feel ashamed.)

    I don't mean this to be harsh, but leave it alone - right now she's not interested. You have bigger issues to confront - like weight, the degree and leadership and building responsive desire.

    There's a saying around here the sex comes last... :)

    "STOP.THAT." - Tennee
    "So it seems to me, that you can in fact, you can teach an old dog new tricks" - Jamie Hyneman
    "So that's like a foursome every time you guys get it on!  - Monkeys_Uncle h/t Katherine Kelly
    TigerTenneeAngeline
  • TigerTiger SeattleCategory Moderator* Posts: 2,324
    Yea, you need to fix yourself structurally so that you are more attractive.  There is no shortcut, stop looking for one, it's not productive. Her masturbating and then turning you down is a direct reflection of her lack of attraction to you at this point.  To be blunt she wants to have sex, but not with you.  Your gut is telling you this, and that's why it hurts you when she does it.  Rather than trying to change her behavior, let her behavior motivate you to fix yourself.

    Fix your attractiveness and that desire for sex will start being turned in your direction.

    Also, her reading romance novels and masturbating is a pretty safe outlet for that sexual frustration.  Most of the alternatives are much worse.
    OlddogTenneeAngeline
  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21
    Yeah honestly I have probably already made her somewhat ashamed.. although I've tried in the past not to because I know I'm logically wrong to be, it's been nearly impossible for me so far to refrain from asking, and generally if she admits she has and doesn't want sex with me right away I'm offended and have sulked around for a while afterward (yeah I know.. a huge no no). It's obviously something I need to get over somehow before I do any more damage with it.

    I'll do my best with leaving it alone.. also @Olddog the thread you linked was exactly what I was looking for, I guess I fall in with the guys there that are hurt that their wives do it because they feel undersexed.. never bothered me that she masturbated without me while we were going at it like rabbits (the non-vibrating furry kind that is =D ). 

    Olddog
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963
    edited August 2014

    @The_Dude re: Leadership moments, here it is: 

    http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/02/the-leadership-moment-quota/

    I'll echo what was said above - don't miss these opportunities.   I was oblivious to them for ages and ignored them:  I dunno, whatever, etc.  Wrong - have an answer for these little moments, no matter how trivial you think it is.  Seize opportunities to be the leader.   I re-read your #9 a couple of times - I really think she is wanting you to lead.  Grab that opportunity.  I have literally a dozen of these every day - respond with decisiveness. 

    @Olddog said:
    I don't mean this to be harsh, but leave it alone - right now she's not interested. You have bigger issues to confront...

    There's a saying around here the sex comes last... :)

    I'll go one step further here - think of this as 'untapped potential' (double entendre absolutely intended) for right now.  You just have to MAP, like a MoFo, to realize it.  In that thread, I said it was a huge mistake on my part to go after the Girl Porn/MB thing.   We were having sex then, albeit somewhat infrequently.  She wanted what I wasn't providing - on many levels - and the Girl Porn/MB was the outlet.   I should have harnessed that, not made it an issue.   Very, VERY dumb on my part.  Ignore it.  Don't ask her about it.   Leave.it.alone.  Really.   Just recently, the vibrator found its way back to the nightstand - we used it the other night.   That actually made me smile - time to go beyond 2X a week...

    Good point, I'm starting to cut back on playing video games some and will try to use more of that time to stay up on  knocking out my school work (starts next week) like a man possessed and exercise at least 20 minutes every day.   am crushing the weight room at the school fitness center.  Sold the X-Box on E-Bay...

    FTFY.  If you have time to play games...wait, you DON'T have time to play games:  Get to work.   Oh, welcome aboard.  You found the right place...

    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
    Olddogdarth_dreadAngeline
  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

    Thanks Tennee, 

    I think you're right on the leadership, there are plenty of times where she has asked me "do you like this one or this one.." or "where do you want to eat.." and I've unecessarily waffled on them thinking the correct thing to do is let her make the decision. Turns out all along I should be suggesting a place and planning things out ahead of time anyway. I've started making concrete decisions whenever she asks for my input instead of waffling, and on occasions where she asks me to do something she could just as easily do herself (For example just a few minutes ago she was cleaning out a bag and asked me to take something to the bathroom when she could more easily do it herself, I told her I was headed the other direction, which I was, and pointed her toward the bathroom.) I'm at least paying attention to try to detect shit tests.

    I haven't played any games today.. uninstalled games from my phone and focused on cleaning up around the house and going for a run this afternoon after work instead. I have some buddies coming out to see the new house this weekend and will likely play games with them then however. Call it a last weekend of fun before cutting them out for a while =).

    Classes are online and I'm a bit away from the school.. but there are a few gyms just a mile or so away from where I work. I haven't signed up yet and am debating on whether I want to do that or set up a room in our house to start doing body weight exercises. Especially to begin with I have plenty of weight to effectively work out with around my midsection..

    TigerTenneejon
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963

    know that there is a difference between a Shit Test and  a Simple Request...The Shit Test is something that tends to sound like "Fetch!" Or be something unreasonable.  I swat down shit tests. "Hey babe, can you hand me X please" when I'm standing right there and she's cooking:  simple request.  With me?

    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

    Just a quick progress update.. I'm slacking on one of my biggest reds, the weight issues, but so far have made progress on knocking out some of my needy tendencies and have been knocking schoolwork out with a week to go before alot of it is due. This is a big change for me as typically in the last few years I've gotten schoolwork done barely on time when I finished it at all..

    On the weight issues a few weeks ago me and wifey started cooking at home to save money on eating out and eat a healthier diet, I lost down to 255 at the lowest doing that before we burnt out on it somewhat and have been going back to grabbing unhealthy foods that require less work. The biggest contributing factor on this was a housewarming party we threw and having friends down for the weekend.. we both had a good bit of empty calories in the form of alcohol and had ungodly amounts of potato chips left over from the party that we are still munching on. During the last week or two I've barely exercised either, so while I haven't weighed I'm fairly certain I've gained back any I lost. Do any of you have experience with trying to stick to healthy options with only two people? I've heard it's harder to save money cooking while there are only two, and it may be a better solution for us to learn how to eat out healthfully and cheaply.

    On a positive note there are a few other items I've been mostly sticking to. First and foremost I've stopped masturbating entirely. I'm seeing some positive results in that every time my wife and I have sex now it seems to come to a good conclusion for both of us. We don't have sex every night but it seems more consistent and more enjoyable than it was. Additionally I have taken to giving orders and avoiding pedastalizing her in the way that I was before. I don't think I'm quite to the point of having an abundance mindset and feeling that I'd be just fine without her if our sexual situation were to continue leaving me unsatisfied, but I'm certainly feeling more confidence in everyday life than I was.

    On an extremely positive note, today my wife and I actually went back home at lunch and made love because she wanted me.. apparently part of the reason is that she dreamed last night that we split up. It's been a while since I've felt that desired =D.

    I'm going to jump back into working on the exercise and eating healthier tonight, so those of you who are in the fitocracy group should see some activity from me in a few hours! 

    AngelineMasterOfTheUniverseOlddog
  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

    Also.. I'm almost certain the improvements I'm seeing currently aren't entirely because I'm making changes, i'm waiting for her next period to start trying to track where she is in her cycle. She hasn't had a period for a few months since she came off of birth control pills, and pregnancy tests are showing negative, but perhaps part of what I'm seeing is the effects of her coming off of birth control? When she asked the OB/GYN about the possibility apparently they said the dosage of the pill she was taking wouldn't affect her sex drive, but that's hard to believe seeing as how they effect hormone levels. 

  • darth_dreaddarth_dread GeorgiaSilver Member Posts: 21

    Not much movement on MAP still this week, although I'm maintaining a stronger and more positive frame (no more whining and pining from me). MAJOR twist of events though, I found out today my wife is 6 weeks pregnant with our first child!

    [Deleted User]TigerOlddog
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