Baby Steps To Boundary Pushing

Olddog

Again, and this is only from my own experience, but the trick is in keeping my brain from getting distracted/thinking during sex. (Things like 'I'm kinda tired/achy/sick/sore' to 'shit, I gotta get these things done tmr/this week/year' to 'I wish that body part wasn't so ugly' to 'shit, I hope I'm not smelly?' to 'gawd, what was that sound?' to 'what, why would he even want to do that/me to do that???' - and there is NO end to the variations  that can run through my head, lol.)

By knowing how much my SO is in the moment - by his obvious vocal and physical cues - THAT helps keeps me out of my head and able to enjoy the pleasure (mine and his!), and his encouragement creates a willingness to stretch boundaries (lizard brain gets greedy?).

But when I was shyer/more self-conscious, pointing out how wet I was would have definitely woken the 'good girl' part of my brain - NOT good!

It takes time, and trust, to (healthfully) evict that 'good girl'.

Don't get too caught up in the errors, build upon the successes like the one you just had. (And even then, there's no 'perfect' formula - not everything is going to work every time.) Just enjoying her and the moment will take you far, I think...

(Also it probably doesn't hurt to remember that I do not live with SO, so sex every day is not a realistic option for us or something we have to contend with...)

Rorschach

Fantastic thread! Thank you. Just wanted to chime in about slow encouragement and not getting pissy or moody or anything remotely in that neighborhood--ever. Keep frame. Maybe it's obvious, but I think even more than being a big turn-off for her, you actually end up moving the goal post much further away and you end up entrenching the resistance. Ask me how I know...

SaigoTakamori

You folks are sooo much more ahead of me,  I am chasing you!  I will catch up,  I have made great strides with my bride in this dept.  As a matter of fact I visited her at work this morning and the topic came up.
No kidding, I had Angeline and Serenity and Katt in my head (in their celebrity voices, lol) and I was OI about it and told her it was ok, we will get there.

Mark
My
Words....we will get there.

Tennee

Ditto to the great thread statement, this will be a great resource.  So, a couple things I've done lately, FWIW...

When making a statement or saying something,  it should be assertive and decisive, not timid.  "I'm going to fuck you hard" should be growled in her ear, not phrased like a question.  Dirty talk is the same way.  Mean what you say - firm, aggressive,  definitive.   This is no time for timidity. 

I am not afraid to push the hamster out of the way. I told her to change positions into doggy the other day.  "Really? Ugh grumble grumble"  Yes, really, and then I moved her.  I did this with the presumption I was getting my way.  Any hard No is respected of course, but I push through hamsterisms.   And I do it in a light frame, from the assumption that I am getting my way.

I've been doing some of @Katt‌ and @HopeAndHardWork‌ 's suggestions re: AS for a while now.  Play with the backdoor, rub, finger the outside.  She tolerates between  cheek play and some k knocking, but shuts it down after a while.   Ok. Progress.  A year ago I would have never even considered doing this at all.    I will keep this moving forward, knowing one day we'll get there.  Til then, I'm patient and will enjoy the ride.

Great thread !

SaigoTakamori

Yea +1 on @tennee.

I get real real bold in what I say to her,  I whisper it in her ear while grabbing her arm just a little tighter.  She eats that up.  Her breathe gets raspy it is Great!

When we vist her sister or her mom,  go up to her when she is standing in a group of them and whisper real low " I wonder if they know how hard I am going to fuck that sweet pussy tonight"  I walk away, she blushes and breathing increases.  It sure pays off later!  that is for sure.

Tennee

@SaigoTakamori‌ you reminded me - watch actions, not words.  W claims to hate dirty talk.  Yet the nails start their dance and she reacts to it positively.   Actions, not words.

SaigoTakamori

Boo
Ya
Homie!

UnBetaMe

Olddog said:

Again, and this is only from my own experience, but the trick is in keeping my brain from getting distracted/thinking during sex. (Things like 'I'm kinda tired/achy/sick/sore' to 'shit, I gotta get these things done tmr/this week/year' to 'I wish that body part wasn't so ugly' to 'shit, I hope I'm not smelly?' to 'gawd, what was that sound?' to 'what, why would he even want to do that/me to do that???' - and there is NO end to the variations  that can run through my head, lol.)

By knowing how much my SO is in the moment - by his obvious vocal and physical cues - THAT helps keeps me out of my head and able to enjoy the pleasure (mine and his!), and his encouragement creates a willingness to stretch boundaries (lizard brain gets greedy?).

But when I was shyer/more self-conscious, pointing out how wet I was would have definitely woken the 'good girl' part of my brain - NOT good!

This is an important piece for me as I know my wife has these thoughts. She is an ultra-planner type and is forever thinking about what she has to do, how to do it, when to do it... mindset.  

So, when she doesn't want to chase her 'O', but wants to please me, I can almost here these types of things going through her mind. This is what I am trying to change in order to make it better for both of us.

I honestly feel that if I can get her out of her own head, that she will enjoy it.  I think more dominance and what you have said above will be a key in helping me to get her there.

August_West

A little patience pays off: no boundaries were pushed in the 'try something new or strange' department, but FO and I were both feeling tired and not exactly sexy. In the past, we would just agree that we were tired and that sex wasn't happening, and that would be that - but lately, as has been discussed elsewhere, we've been making good progress on being more sexually engaged.

I had been making drivebys all evening and giving not-so-subtle physical cues leading us towards the bedroom - long, passionate kisses, being handsy, eye-contact flirtation, and dropping some verbal hints here and there - keeping it coy and pithy, think James Bond with a touch of Warren Beatty.

All my advances were met with soft resistance: "I'm really tired." Hell, I was tired, too. I wasn't going to push it too hard, so I upped the beta - back scratches, stroking her hair, poured a couple drinks and made a late night snack - brie, pomegranates, crackers and sliced avocados. We settled in front of the tube, watching some fairly unsexy cartoons (Bob's Burgers reruns). I was ready to go to bed, but wanted to give the snack time to settle.

Half an hour passes. She decides it is time to take a shower before bed. I decided it's time for US to take a shower before bed - after all, I'm a very, very dirty man. Mustering the energy and wakefulness I have left, I give her a couple minutes to get settled into the shower before I join her. After having some fun with the massage settings on the shower head, we towel off and head to the bedroom. Boom. Throw her on the bed. Bathrobes off. Legs end up thrown over my shoulder. No additional foreplay is necessary. We're not bothering with slow penetration, her orgasming first, bondage play, or anything else. Tonight, she's getting plowed. We're not changing positions. I'm not stopping or slowing down for anything. I realize that we're not speaking in our usual tongues, the moans and grunts that usually accompany our sex, but we're shouting words of encouragement to each other - I'm telling her "Squeeze my cock tighter" - she's telling me "Fuck me harder." Dirty talk -check.

The next morning, before work, she tells me how wonderful last night was, and thanks me for keeping her awake a little bit longer.

Capt. West's rule of thumb: Even if we're both feeling tired, and she acts like she's inclined to just go to sleep, persistently, patiently keep initiating, and don't be afraid to call an audible and change tactics. Introducing a little bit of well-targeted beta paid off. There's a clear difference between a soft "I'm tired," or "Let's just crash" and a hard "No."

Katt

UnBetaMe said:

Olddog said:

Again, and this is only from my own experience, but the trick is in keeping my brain from getting distracted/thinking during sex. (Things like 'I'm kinda tired/achy/sick/sore' to 'shit, I gotta get these things done tmr/this week/year' to 'I wish that body part wasn't so ugly' to 'shit, I hope I'm not smelly?' to 'gawd, what was that sound?' to 'what, why would he even want to do that/me to do that???' - and there is NO end to the variations  that can run through my head, lol.)

By knowing how much my SO is in the moment - by his obvious vocal and physical cues - THAT helps keeps me out of my head and able to enjoy the pleasure (mine and his!), and his encouragement creates a willingness to stretch boundaries (lizard brain gets greedy?).

But when I was shyer/more self-conscious, pointing out how wet I was would have definitely woken the 'good girl' part of my brain - NOT good!

This is an important piece for me as I know my wife has these thoughts. She is an ultra-planner type and is forever thinking about what she has to do, how to do it, when to do it... mindset.  

So, when she doesn't want to chase her 'O', but wants to please me, I can almost here these types of things going through her mind. This is what I am trying to change in order to make it better for both of us.

I honestly feel that if I can get her out of her own head, that she will enjoy it.  I think more dominance and what you have said above will be a key in helping me to get her there.

I am the constant meticulous planning always thinking of what I need to do type as well.  And frankly, any kind of slow lackadaisical sex makes it easy for my mind to wander to the to-do list.  It's not willful, it's not because I'm bored or unattracted, it's just the way I am.  And for me, this is likely part of the reason the more dominant sex works so well for me; it makes it very difficult to think of anything else.

UnBetaMe

@Katt‌ @HopeAndHardWork‌ @Olddog‌ ;

The pieces are starting to come together now.  

1.) More dominance via actions and vocals gets her hooked in the moment.

2.) The tentative stuff will do me no favors in the bedroom due to her personality per Katt's post above. Be firm, confident and bold.

3.) Must err on the side of being too in the moment, but be cautious with words that could trigger her Good Girl.

4.) Sincere compliments on 'WHY' She drives me crazy/this bodypart is sexy/I love her per @August_West‌ . 

5.) Be overly positive and persistent with pushing boundaries.

Added to homework.

MiddleMan

Here's an area where I have a lot of room for improvement. I want her to respond passionately; I need to give her something to work with. So I'm trying to be more vocal. I'm usually quiet, so is she. I'd like to do some dirty talk but I'm self conscious about it. So I'm trying to just vocalize more and see if I can draw her in that way as well.

Internally, it feels a bit like I'm faking it because it's a conscious thing for me. Perhaps it will feel more natural in time.

UnBetaMe

MiddleMan said:

Here's an area where I have a lot of room for improvement. I want her to respond passionately; I need to give her something to work with. So I'm trying to be more vocal. I'm usually quiet, so is she. I'd like to do some dirty talk but I'm self conscious about it. So I'm trying to just vocalize more and see if I can draw her in that way as well.

Internally, it feels a bit like I'm faking it because it's a conscious thing for me. Perhaps it will feel more natural in time.

Yep. Right there with you.  See my longer post upthread. The Groans, growls, heavy breathing is my baby step to actual words.  It seems to turn a lot of women on judging by what I've read here.

August_West

UnBetaMe said:

MiddleMan said:

Here's an area where I have a lot of room for improvement. I want her to respond passionately; I need to give her something to work with. So I'm trying to be more vocal. I'm usually quiet, so is she. I'd like to do some dirty talk but I'm self conscious about it. So I'm trying to just vocalize more and see if I can draw her in that way as well.

Internally, it feels a bit like I'm faking it because it's a conscious thing for me. Perhaps it will feel more natural in time.

Yep. Right there with you.  See my longer post upthread. The Groans, growls, heavy breathing is my baby step to actual words.  It seems to turn a lot of women on judging by what I've read here.

This makes three of us - but I am getting better. Let us fake it until we make it, gentlemen!

Katt

@MiddleMan said:

Here's an area where I have a lot of room for improvement. I want her to respond passionately; I need to give her something to work with. So I'm trying to be more vocal. I'm usually quiet, so is she. I'd like to do some dirty talk but I'm self conscious about it. So I'm trying to just vocalize more and see if I can draw her in that way as well.

Internally, it feels a bit like I'm faking it because it's a conscious thing for me. Perhaps it will feel more natural in time.

You can start by keeping it to things that aren't way off the deep end for you that you can also be pretty comfortable won't freak her out.   Simple things like "That feels so good", "You're so hot".  "Keep going".   Things like that, that are genuine expressions of how you feel at the moment won't feel or come off as inauthentic the way some dirty talk can. I would probably start laughing if my husband said some of the dirty talk I read on here because it would be so bizarrely out of character.   Start small and genuine and it will feel less uncomfortable for you.

Katt

One more piece of the female POV to offer that I intended to say on another thread but didn't withregard to the frustration many guys feel over the fact that some women will get all kinds of freaky with guys they just met but some wives won't open up even a bit to the men they are married to.   

 Women are bombarded with messages from a young age that men are the ones with the sex drive, we are the ones responsible for slowing things down.  A promiscuous guy is just a matter of "boys will be boys"; a promiscuous girl is a slut, and that's a very bad thing to be.  While some might say that there is a big difference between beingtotally indiscriminate about partner choice and enjoying an exciting sex life with our spouse, many girls take from all of this that they aren't supposed to enjoy sex and certainly aren't supposed to get too wild.   

So think about it, being judged a slut or a kinky freak by some random dude you met online wont likely have long term ramifications.   You don't ever have to see him again if you don't want to.   Being judged by the man you own a home with and who fathered your babies would be devastating.  The last thing you want is for that man to look down on you or judge you.   And while you (meaning the husband) might never look down on her for being sexual, that possibility can be embedded in her mind.  

This isn't the origin of my occasional hesitation (mine has more to do with fear of the unknown and my tendency to reject surprises), but is you're working with a major "good girl issues" kind of woman, you have to recognize the background for her fears.  She isn't trying to reject you, she might be terrified of being viewed negatively by you.   As you very slowly get her to expand her horizons, if you play it right, she will see that her increasing sexual openness makes you think more of her, not less.   

SaigoTakamori

Another thing I had success with:  Ala gods gift to him    When texting  I call her my sweet, or my love  or my girl   to set the tone

r9stone

August_West said:

UnBetaMe said:

MiddleMan said:

Here's an area where I have a lot of room for improvement. I want her to respond passionately; I need to give her something to work with. So I'm trying to be more vocal. I'm usually quiet, so is she. I'd like to do some dirty talk but I'm self conscious about it. So I'm trying to just vocalize more and see if I can draw her in that way as well.

Internally, it feels a bit like I'm faking it because it's a conscious thing for me. Perhaps it will feel more natural in time.

Yep. Right there with you.  See my longer post upthread. The Groans, growls, heavy breathing is my baby step to actual words.  It seems to turn a lot of women on judging by what I've read here.

This makes three of us - but I am getting better. Let us fake it until we make it, gentlemen!

Count me in too! I have noticed more reactions (heavier breathing, soft moans from her )from my wife the more groans and growls I unleash. Its easy for me to do it though because I live nailing my wife and its a natural reaction for me. I really pulled back on trying dirty talk, that's too much too soon with DW. 

Olddog

Or, bring out your inner 'Hot Chocolate'?



Even though my DD and I were goofing around when this came on the radio, the lyrics in the latter half made me think of this and the displaying passion thread  

I agree with @Katt, unless they were said at exactly the right moment, some of the dirty talk around here would not have the desired effect. You're better off with sounds IMO, and if you're feeling adventurous throw in some easier - neutral? - commands like kiss me, look at me etc.

August_West

Olddog said:

I agree with @Katt, unless they were said at exactly the right moment, some of the dirty talk around here would not have the desired effect. You're better off with sounds IMO, and if you're feeling adventurous throw in some easier - neutral? - commands like kiss me, look at me etc.

Neutral is probably not the best choice of descriptions if you're trying to be more assertive within your relationship and in bed. You need to be direct and to the point with commands. Think 2-3 word sentences, subject-verb-object. Or to put it more plainly, imagine you're starting out your command with "I want" or "I wish you'd" - but leave that out. You're not asking for something, you're stating a demand.

That's why using real words is better than just making noises. And as the thread title suggests, start small. Not neutral. Small. Baby steps. Sometimes, you won't even need to verbalize it. Put your spouse's hand somewhere you want it. Move them around yourself to change positions. Ideally, sex is intuitive. When you start to guide them somewhere, they'll figure it out and respond.