Baby Steps To Boundary Pushing

UnBetaMe

Ok, I finally have some time to hammer this post out with my thoughts. You guys have given me a lot to think about ( hardy har har  ) 

@angeline and @husband3point0 - I accept that I need to sack up and be more bold. She is attracted and we have good momentum going. I'm at a place where I can afford to take the risk of being more bold.

I've initiated to hard No for the last 3 nights straight. Maybe there is something wrong with my initiations, or maybe I come across as 'needy' somehow, but she shuts them down. That was the expereiment and it turned out just how it usually did every other time I tried it over the past 3 years.  To be fair, 2 of the 3 nights I would have not bothered due my knowing she was orange/red, But @angeline thought maybe I didn't have that figured out.

That said, had I been more aloof and 'ignored' her for the better part of most of those last 3 days, I am almost certain she would have initiated at least a 'quickie' in that timespan.  The latter has been the conclusion I've arrived at from upthread... stoke RD and let her 'initiate'. To recap - this has resulted in an uptick of her orgasms by twofold, which means better sex for me at the same quantity. ( cc @redford to answer why I don't initiate)

@Leticia - Correct. I am OK with quickies, but I'm not okay with it being not enjoyable for either of us. Again, if she said 'I'm tired, I just want you to take me/fuck me/pound me etc. that's cool. Maybe I am 'mind reading' as was suggested upthread and again by @angeline , but when she lies almost motionless and silent it's hard to imagine that she REALLY wanted me to just fuck her for her enjoyment/connection. (cc @pen_and_sword ).

@Winter - I'm not sure exactly what my wife's brands are. Her favorite positions are submissive (Doggy / Missionary), but she has such a controlling personality. Maybe she just needs me to overpower that in Bed? It's possible that's what she needs and she's testing me to see how much I can bring.
But, as @Angeline says , she needs to trust it first. This is basically what I'm trying to accomplish in this thread.
I just need to move faster as some of you have pointed out.

To cover off the other brands quickly:

She doesn't like taboo - limited positions, no sex in the back of a parked car as I've suggested, not even anywhere else in our house. She is certainly not sensual as she prefers little foreplay and limited kissing. She may have some responsive in her preferred brand as she can get to orgasm faster when I'm more vocal/grunting and using more forceful hands for stimulation which leads to Rough. She may like a little more rough with her submissive as she learns to trust it. I've been escalating the force of my ass grabbing and breast stimulation with no negative feedback yet. I will note that she doesn't like her head being pushed down while in doggie, but that might be an angle/position thing too???

@rorschach - I understand what you're saying about the chameleon. It can definitely be an advantage.  

It's also possible that it's attraction related. But, everything else seems to be going well(Work, fitness, house and cars in order, making family decisions, getting things done).
I could stand to get out with the guys more, I suppose. She never was really wild sexually and she's never initiated sex more than she is right now, so I'm not convinced it's attraction.

There it is... what say you?  

Katt

UnBetaMe said:

@Leticia - Correct. I am OK with quickies, but I'm not okay with it being not enjoyable for either of us. Again, if she said 'I'm tired, I just want you to take me/fuck me/pound me etc. that's cool. Maybe I am 'mind reading' as was suggested upthread and again by @angeline , but when she lies almost motionless and silent it's hard to imagine that she REALLY wanted me to just fuck her for her enjoyment/connection. (cc @pen_and_sword ).   She told you that she gets something out of it, correct?   Whether that something is obvious to you or not, you should assume good intentions and if she initiates and says it does something for her, work under the assumption that it is the case.   


 She may like a little more rough with her submissive as she learns to trust it. I've been escalating the force of my ass grabbing and breast stimulation with no negative feedback yet.  

If she isn't so much as protesting, let alone stopping you or resisting that means you should escalate in that vein.   There's no need for you to create artificial boundaries for her; your wife is not afraid to say no or stop you if she doesn't want you doing something.

I think a lot of it is just you getting in your own way tbh.   You're probably coming off fairly tentative.   If she's not responding negatively to something, keep going, don't manufacture a stopping point yourself because you think you're maybe escalating too quickly.   Let her *actual reactions* guide you rather than your perceptions of what you think she will be down for or what you expect to be "too far".   

UnBetaMe

@Katt You're right on the money.  I don't know why I stop myself sometimes. Other times, when she has said 'No' once, I have a really hard time trying again. Even if she has enjoyed/tolerated it many other times previously.

UnBetaMe

As a further update, we had friends over last night until nearly midnight. 
We hadn't had sex in a few days and we were both tired, but she initiated anyway. I was already in bed and turned over with eyes closed. 
She said 'are we gonna do it?'

We did and she tried for her orgasm but gave up after 5 mins and told me to finish. I proceed to pound her hard in doggie...not the best idea when she's not super revved up as I hit her cervix once. She said 'ouch' and then I backed off a bit and finished up... so, not the greatest for either of us.

I'm blaming this one on wine and fatigue. Moreso her than me.

fordsvt

I think at times one needs to go for it.  
I introduced a new vibrator and a jewel butt plug last week.  The plug as a no go. No way no how. She seems to like anal play at times so I was surprised. My thumb is fine but not this? 
the vibrator was a go. She liked it but it was a little too much at times. And it's loud which I was disappointed in.  I guess one can never tell but trying new things is a must.  
It's great to sense her wanting to try new things. 

UnBetaMe

As an update, I have introduced the thumb back on her anus more regularly again. I haven't inserted it again though. She hasn't been pushing back against it like she used to, so I'm working up to it again. Making it a regular thing so she feels safe with it there again. 
Tons more groping on my part... because I want to. She hasn't resisted. I enjoy it, so I'm going to keep doing it. 
Still increasing force of holding he hands above her head and using my hands more on her neck to build trust and comfort there. 
Logistics have been rough lately for a session when we are both really able to get into it. I'm still mindful that I need toake bold moves when the time is right.
Put the ball in the air as @Husband3point0 put it.

fordsvt

Bold moves are a good was to put it. I miss that too at times and need to work on this as well. Red / green or what is in the air right then. I find if I don't focus on this all the time everyday, I lose the ability to keep in touch with that timing.

UnBetaMe

I know 'Actions' not words... but.
Long story short W views sex like ice cream. Likes it a lot, but not frequently. Likes something to look forward to. Some anticipation. Views it as a 'treat'. Thinks if we have sex too much it will become less of a 'treat' . Said this is why she doesn't chase her O more often.
I said I think about it more like coffee. I can be perfectly fine without it, but it's sure better to start each day with it. (Not that I even have the drive for daily sex... just sounded like a good analogy at the time)
She smiled and then hamster kicked in. I just laughed and walked away. 

fordsvt

Honestly my wife is a 1-2 times a week girl.  Usually once with our schedule.  
She been like that for many years.  Since kids so about 17 years or so.  I use to think it was me that she wasn't attracted to. So yes porn crept in and all the other BS. 
But in the past few years the quality has gone way up.  By 100 percent for sure. She Os every time.  I mean every single time so that's quality.  I don't push her for more as I know it's a Red usually.  So I take quality over quantity and that's important for men to realize that. I never saw that either until my MAP started working.  
Now she's 44 and menopause is or has started.  She's always warm or hot.  Now that's another variable to consider here as well.    As long as the quality is there once a week I'd say nothing.