Sex life after having your first child

chemteach

My wife is giving birth to our first child in a few weeks, and we're both thrilled to be starting a family.  It's a boy, so @Athol_Kay you only have 13 years left to finish MMSL Primer for Teens.

My concern is shared by @steu2817 and lots of other members; what can a red-pill man do to encourage a healthy sex life after adding a child to the family?  Some men have shared some very worrying stories, so I want to be on top of my game.  Having a new baby in the house requires a lot of beta support, but also alpha leadership.  I'm a natural beta so the first part is easy for me, but what can I do to add alpha for balance?  There must be a huge body of experience out there in the forum, so help me out.

I also have a particular reason to be concerned.  Throughout our 6-year marriage, Mrs Teach has experienced a long, slow decline in desire (2-3x per week at first declining to 1-2x per month now) that led me to MMSL in the first place.  I'm fine with cooling it for a few weeks post-partum for her body to physically recover, but I anticipate that the stresses of motherhood (lack of sleep, breastfeeding, feeling "overtouched", etc.) are going to put the final seal on her vagina indefinitely.

background info: the wife is not on medication and has never cheated, I've been MAPping for about six months with mixed results

Prez

It may take more than a few weeks for her to heal up.  There can be a lot of soreness at 6 weeks.  Around 2 or 3 months or so, she should be back to normal. 

The first couple of weeks, don't ask for sex.  You'll be waiting on her when she gets out of the hospital because apparently it really hurts to give birth and she needs to heal up.

Before you go into it, when she's in a good mood and open to talking about sex, explain to her about hearing that women can feel overtouched, etc., and that you will both have to make a concerted effort to bring your sex life up to a reasonable level. 

If I recall correctly and am not confusing it with pregnancy, my wife treated me to a lot of HJs at some point along the line, maybe when she was healthy enough to sit up, but still sore down there. 

You can also encourage by saying you read on the Internet that a woman's sexual pleasure can greatly increase after she heals up from childbirth.  Based on reactions, my wife had some pretty amazing orgasms in our two year or so Honeymoon phase.  But I'd go down on her for 20 to 30 minutes before intercourse and insist she go for more.  Now, much more rapidly, she'll get the powerful orgasms, and I'd guess some of the ones after childbirth are greater than the ones before it.  I also had the problem of her grunting from pain, discomfort, or tenderness when I would enter her or after we'd been going at it.  Her opening hurt when we'd have sex quite often.  Of course, I miss the feeling of being trapped in a vice at the opening-- or some really tight hugging, maybe not a vice.  And that's gone.  But it is good that entry is not as much of an ordeal now that she's had babies. 

I've also read that some of the blood vessels expand more during pregnancy and childbirth, which help with sexual response later.  So you can share what you just read here to get it in her mind that orgasms can be more powerful after childbirth, and she has to work herself back up to having sex. 

The first time after she heals up may be a little difficult.  It was kind of like when my wife was a virgin or a little sore just after.  Ouch.  That's uncomfortable-- that hurts-- that sort of thing. 

Anyway, get a commitment from her to try to get back in the swing of things beforehand so you'll have her buy-in.  Be 'beta' during pregnancy and delivery.

Watch out for post-partum.  Imagine if you took PMS, her period, and pregnancy hormones, and combined them into one huge monster, then shot that monster up with steroids.  Post-partum blues can be crazy.  One minute, she's normal.  The next minute, she's saying all this emotional gobbledy gook about how you don't understand her, or some crazy idea about how some normal activity for a newborn is going to hurt the baby. 

They get really protective with the first one.  Don't take it to heart.  Refuse to argue, but treat the arguments much more gently than a normal female emotional outburst, even if she is a bit more fiery during post-partum.  The same is true of pregnancy.  It's also good if she realizes she can wrongly blame you when she has PMS or whatever, and realizes that going in to post-partum, so she won't have this idea stuck in your head that you were bad to her during pregnancy or post-partum when you weren't. 

Slipangle

We have 2, youngest turns 6 in one month, the oldest turned 7 a month ago. So the first months after pregnancy are a timeline of the distant past. But when the sex life gets back in gear, the first year or so you can get sex during the day, so it's not until the child can come in on you and isn't napping that it gets harder to get sex.

 

Long story short, I don't think the time right after the pregnancy is the worst of it.

 

At the point we're at, we have to have sex after the kids go to bed, when we can get them both out of hte house on playdates, and rarely we risk it in the morning... The kids are supposed to stay in bed until 6:30 but often will try to get up before 6.

PhoenixDown

The time frame can vary a lot... most docs recommend 6 weeks, but she could be ready before that, or it could take a few extra weeks after that. Keep an ear out after the birth is over and you're basking in the new baby... if she needs stitches, the first time having sex might be a bit painful when it rolls around. Ask what degree tearing there is. It's numbered 1 through 5, 1 being not bad at all and probably doesn't need stitches, 5 being OH MY GOD I DON'T EVEN WANT TO THINK ABOUT IT.

For the first few weeks after the baby, I don't think you should even mention sex... hell, you might not even think about it yourself, for what little sleep you'll be getting. Just be comforting and helpful, get to know your little one, and take it easy. For me, I wasn't interested in sex at all after my first (we were deep in a horrible betaized marriage, we weren't having much sex to begin with), but after my 2nd pregnancy, we were ready to go again after 4 weeks. Lots of snuggling and spooning in bed, and back-of-the-neck kisses (oh I love those!) helped a lot.

Linanati

Beware the baby monitor! 

Being a little more overprotective with the first baby, we would have the baby monitor on while having sex.  I can't tell you how many times the child did a weird cough or there was no sound for a minute and I would freak and have to run check to be sure everything was OK.  That does put a bit of a damper on things.  It really frustrated my husband too.

Finally, I got comfortable with the idea that the baby would be fine for a little while even if I couldn't hear or see her, as long as she was in a safe place, such as her crib.  We didn't use the baby monitor at all with our second one.  He lived through it just fine.  I threw the monitor away when we moved.

Prez

Btw, how do you ladies like groping and sexual innuendo while healing up?

IMO, it's not a good idea, and it is wasted effort on the man's part.

PhoenixDown

Prez said:

Btw, how do you ladies like groping and sexual innuendo while healing up?

IMO, it's not a good idea, and it is wasted effort on the man's part.

Yeah, not really a great idea for a few weeks, IMO. Crazy hormones, no sleep, etc. If she's feeling depressed, it may make her feel bad that she can't oblige you, or it may make her pissed that you're thinking of sex when you should be focused on helping with the baby, and her boobs hurt and sex is the farthest thing from her mind, etc etc.

Elaine

I was all for the intimate kisses but not so much for the groping and sexual innuendos for a while.  All my fun parts were sore and all the other parts were fluffy so zero interest in sex.  I'd say after she starts leaving the house frequently and/or exercising it is a safe time to start with the groping.  That shows she is feeling like a person again.

romanceauthor

I had 2 c-sections. After the first, I had a hard time figuring out how to walk again. Thankfully my mother was there to help out and gave me time to get back on my feet. My husband was very uninterested in me but I was up for gentle sex around 8 weeks. Family and friends willing to come take the baby for a walk occasionally were godsends. 

With baby #2, I ended up kicking him out of the hospital room at night because his snoring was waking the baby up and keeping me from actually getting any sleep. 4 day hospital stay and I got about 2 hours of sleep, in 30 minute intervals. We'd moved to be with family so I actually went and spent a week at my mother's house so I could recuperate. I was on my feet much faster and was dtf at about 4 weeks. I had to keep myself from doing anything that would hurt me. 

Just remember she may need a little help at first, including figuring out where her center of gravity is again (I kept falling over, true story). Gentle touches to remind her you love her and maybe some more exploratory touching (ie. going from the side to the side boob) as she starts feeling more human. Listen to how she's feeling, particularly if she says something hurts. My breasts were . . . awkward while I was nursing. My nipples were super sore but everything else was super sensitive.

 If you have people you trust offer to come watch the baby for an hour or 2, take it, even if all you're doing is taking a nap together. When my son was around 2, weekends at Nana's house became a regular thing after we got snowed in on opposite sides of town while my mom was baby-sitting. That opened up a lot of possibilities for us but I know my parents wouldn't have trusted my grandparents to watch me for an hour, much less a weekend, so ymmv.

Hamster_Free

Good Early On Alpha--Protect her space.

Don't know where you are or what your social circle is like, but --lots of folks love to come see the new baby.  If she's up for it, great.  If she's not looking too enthusiastic, she may feel socially obliged to tolerate outsiders in the nest longer than she's really good for.  If you monitor her and start to sense that she might be getting overwhelmed, alpha up and chase everybody out--"Thanks for coming, but my little family needs to rest now."  And if, by any chance, you've moved, and your mother hasn't seen the new house, PLEASE don't take your mother on a tour of the house, including the MBR where your wife and/or child are taking a nap..I'm just saying. 
:-w

One thing that I really appreciated about DH during that whole time was that he made it his personal priority to make sure that we were all eating right and cooked some wonderful, wholesome meals to make sure that I was eating right enough to support the baby.  It wasn't beta "Can I get you a sandwich, dear?", it was very alpha, "I'm making salmon and quinoa on a bed of baby greens tonight so that you're getting omega 3s into your milk so my daughter will be inducted into Mensa by the time she's 3.  You really have no say in this." 
:x

Hamster_Free

Having said that, if you do have to get up early in the morning, rather than slapping down the unreasonable request to get the baby in the middle of the night, set up the scenario the night before. Just be sure to inform her that you have to get up early and need a good night's rest, so if the baby cries you'd appreciate it if she got it. 

totally agree, no turning into a blue pill bitch.  However, the flip side here is, don't assume that because you work 5 days a week, that you shouldn't do the middle of the night duty occasionally on off nights.  All Father Middle of the Night Duty:  Blue Pill bitch.  All Mother Middle of the Night Duty:  Omega Unsupportive Asshole.  SAHM mostly Middle of the Night Duty with occasional WOHM Father supplementation:  AWESOME.

And if you wake up hearing the kid and she's still asleep, it's OK sometimes to just go ahead and take care of it and try to get back to sleep rather than slapping her awake, insisting she get up, and then remaining pissy about not being able to get back to sleep after she comes back to bed.  At that point, all she's thinking is, "great...I'm being kept awake by *two* fussy babies.."

CaptVere

Yes, definitely more beta at the beginning, but respectful beta.  She has a legitimate reason to not want sex for the first month or two post delivery and then circumstances will vary.  If she has some postpartum depression or other issues surrounding difficult deliveries you may need more time.  Once the doctor okays sex though, it is time to start getting back to it.  BJs, HJs, whatever until PiV is fully functional again.  Maybe the frequency is down, but never let it slide.  Once you let it slide for too long, it becomes habit and her libido may be naturally suppressed from the breastfeeding or other postpartum hormone levels so she may not care.  It may be mostly up to you to keep things going.  Keeping your sex life constant and addressing issues quickly is necessary outside of pregnancy, but even more so right after.

Maybe the FOs can answer this question: At what point do you think it becomes unreasonable for her to be uninterested?  As in, when does it just become another excuse she likes to use?  After a year I would say there should be no excuses at all an sex life should be mostly back to previous levels.

Notelrac

The truth is - the baby doesn't take a bottle
Why not?  And I'm asking as someone who was married to a lactation consultant.  The usual problem is that the baby doesn't latch and can't breastfeed.

so all feeds are on me anyway
This is a safety issue.  What would happen if for some reason you were unable to breastfeed?  It's also a marital issue, in that you cannot arrange to spend time away from the baby.

PhoenixDown

Ive had friends whose babies wouldn't take bottles. My latest baby friend had to go through like 15 different brands before she found one the baby would take without completely freaking out. It happens, it's not always an excuse to exclusively breastfeed. (It's incredibly inconvenient for moms who have to go back to work. What usually happens is that the baby "reverse cycles"; they refuse bottles all day, and nurse twice as much once mom gets home and throughout the night.)

Hamster_Free

I can definitely see your point, Purple, but..I maintain that one parent being strung out from baby induced sleep dep really lays fertile ground for resentment for the sap who gets all the sleep.  Don't care which way it plays out.  I was a dedicated breast feeder, and the kiddos rarely had bottles (cited example @ ;Omega Beta Asshole--it's not because I didn't pump).  It would have been awesome though, if he'da just picked up the baby from the crib and lay him/her next to me for a snooze feed once in a while..woulda been great.  But--wouldacouldashoulda.  No changing it now.  I'm just sayin for @chemteach's benefit..it'd be a cool thing to do every once in a while that might diffuse building resentment.

chemteach

Thanks everyone for your responses, Soon-to-be-new-father appreciates hearing from all of you more experienced folk.  How long the "Do not enter" sign hangs over her vag depends on how the delivery goes, and hopefully all the coconut oil perineal massage I've been doing will prevent tearing.  Now *that's* a beta comfort job I don't mind doing :-bd

Here's a follow-on question:  I have a tendency to slide into over-beta land on the best of days, so what are some ways you upped the alpha in the first year? 

Notelrac

"what are some ways you upped the alpha in the first year?"
Staying home with the baby while she goes out is beta. 
Taking the the baby out for 3-4 hours without your wife is Alpha. 

Sounds odd, right?  But think about it.  How often do you see a man out in public carrying (strollers are for sissies, get a backpack or sling) a small baby?  Buying groceries.  Dropping off the dry cleaning.  Shopping.

You need to do some prep work for this.  First off, you have to convince your wife that you are trustworthy enough to not do something careless.  Get an electric breast pump, and get the bottles with the special nipples that require a whole lot of effort to get any milk out of.  Take on the role of learning how to store the milk and then prepping it for when you go out.  Learn how to change a diaper.  Be able to tell the difference between the different cries for: "I'm hungry" "I'm cranky" "I'm sick" "I'm bored and feel like listening to myself".

PhoenixDown

I love our Ergo. They're on sale sometimes on babysteals.com.

Wendy

Yeah, there are differnent ways to father a baby. Following your wife around carrying her diaper bag, not so hot.

We really liked the Happiest Baby on the Block DVD when we were expecting our first. Good soothing techniques for the first three months.  If you can feel confident in how to soothe the baby on your own, I think that helps you be less dependent on the wife's input for every little thing.  

Joke around as much as you can.   Trying to make a tired mama laugh is always a  good idea.  

I taught my husband how to use the MobyWrap and one day he's doing the whole wrap thing and he goes: "I need something with snaps and buckles." He went to the store, tested a few and bought his own baby carrier to his liking (the ergo).  I did smile about it back then, though I also gave him a hard time for being picky LOL

Hamster_Free

http://wearyourbaby.com/ has just about every baby carrying option known to humankind.  For ease of construction, mine lived in this for the first year or so of their lives.  Makes it really easy for airline travel, especially once you hit the highly mobile and utterly fearless right about 1year stage.  Strap the kid to you and go.  We traveled halfway around the world with NO stroller.  Couldn'ta done it without this. 

And yeah.  Dudes carrying babies primal style (lashed to you with animal skin--or a breathable knit)?  soooooooooo HOT.

Ponyboy

For me, when the kids came along that's when my beta behaviours increased and never really changed.

Only suggestion I have is this, yes for sure you have to be more beta when you add a baby to your household.

But you can also be alpha while being beta.

For example, she will be tired, she will forget what it's like to feel like an individual with a baby attached to her or needing her so much.

Tell her your taking the kid for a few hours and send her off to do something that she enjoys.  Like a massage or yoga or whatever.

It's alpha to set it up for her and send her off, beta to care for her and the kids.  It's a double whammy and was a real winner for me after kid number one and kid number two.

Really, it still is a real winner.  The kids get older, but her need for a break doesn't change.

Congratulations on the new baby by the way.