I should probably give some background before asking my questions (I'll post a triage soon), so here we go:
I'm a married woman in my early 30's, husband is in early 40's and we have one child. I stumbled upon Athol's books and bought them, read both the Mindful Attraction Plan and "Do These Pants.." and sort of had a revelation that a lot of our 2 year period of heavy fighting was because of me. I realize it's silly that I didn't realize it, but I guess that's why people are here. Things were only getting worse and several things came to a head at once. I was drinking too much wine, had let the housework slip and basically had checked out of the marriage because of several factors (went through a long bout of post partum depression, several moves because of husband's job, etc.) Those issues are taken care of for now. I no longer drink anything alcoholic and have no plans to do so. (I wasn't full-blown alcoholic, but the urge to grab a glass of "mommy's helper" whenever I was stressed was starting to bother me and that might have led to it eventually.) I've had home cooked dinner on the table every night for almost a month and have been getting much better about getting chores done. The depression is under control.
But, here is my biggest Red. I'm obese. I'm working on getting it off as diligently as I can and have already lost about 20 pounds after a month of cutting out processed food and calorie counting. I still have around 80 to go, unfortunately, and what is also sad is that this is something that just will take a lot of time to show results. I guess what I'm asking is what are other ways to keep my husband into me while I get this weight off or if I should just brace myself that letting myself go means he's in danger of cheating until I lose enough?
I don't have any evidence that he will or has cheated, but our sex life has gone from several times a week before we had our child to around once every two months. I realize it's probably an attraction issue and can't blame him, but it's been rough and I think the lack of connection is also why my own attraction has gone down for him also. Lack of attraction from him = less sex/attention = less attraction from me.
I do want more out of him too (way more Alpha, being more responsible with money), but I feel like my own Red is so huge (pardon the pun) that I need to work on myself before I ask any change from him.
We aren't that old. I don't want to be in a marriage where we only have sex 6 times per year. Will the weight loss solve this? What else can I do to move my FAPing along? Please help.
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Good for you for making the hard decisions to turn your life around.
There are lots of factors that could be at play here and it's hard to give detailed advice when we don't yet have a good grasp of where your marriage is at. These issues will all be solved by the triage. In the meantime, some basic questions:
is he initiating?
are you initiating?
either of you into porn?
The basic questions:
We've been married about 9 years.
He initiates about once every few months. He used to be the main person doing them, maybe 80%/20% and when that lessened a lot I started to initiate more. Mine could be more frequent, but along with the body image issues I got it in my head that he wouldn't want sex if we'd fought recently so I do it about once a month. I know he looks at porn now and then (once a month?) but not frequently (I have access to his computer and phone and there's little evidence of anything like that apart from the odd visit to celebrity nudes and such.) I'm not really into porn, but do read the occasional romance novel. He's never been much for hand jobs, even when we were dating, but I will try the BJ idea.
Question 1: Basic Questions
I'm in my early 30's, he's in his early 40's. We've been married for 9 years and dated for 3 prior to that. We have a 4 year old child. The dating phase and beginning years of marriage were relatively happy. At the beginning of 2013 we started fighting a lot more. Stupid fights about nothing and tone and annoyance that devolved into over-the-top battles.
Q2: Rule Out Medical
I had severe postpartum depression after our child was born that lasted around a year and a half. It was controlled with medication and I got off it once I started feeling better. I'm obese and working on it. He is overweight but much less than I am. (Could stand to lose about 40 pounds-ish)
Q3: Rule Out Structural Attraction Issues
I'm obese. I had the beginnings of an alcohol issue that I've addressed. I'm sure there are other things on my part. Disrespect and nagging. I haven't kept the house up well enough in general. Not a pig-sty, but too much eating out because of no meal plan, laundry piled up more than it should. He has issues keeping employment over the last 5 years, but has always been employed. Just a lot of job-hopping. I feel like he's very absent minded.
Q4: Critical Moments and Neglect
When our child was born, his parents became very pushy and demanding and I didn't feel like he protected me from them. He lost his job 3 months after the birth and sent me into a tailspin. I was so consumed with depression and later self-centered enough to probably not provide enough encouragement or support for him. His self-confidence took major hits and instead of being a rock, I was critical.
Q5: Outside Sexual Sources
None for me outside of the occasional romance novel. He looks at porn maybe once a month. I'm 90% sure he hasn't fooled around simply because of timing and he's very open with his electronic communication.
Q6: When Did Sex Go Bad
After the baby. It never really went back to normal after that given the depression and later the fighting.
Q7: What Was Sex Like at start
It was great. We were very attracted to each other and went at it all the time. Even if there was a slow period because of illness or stress, we reconnected pretty quickly after the storms had passed. Usually at least 4 times per week or at least twice a week.
Q8: Elephants
My obesity. The drinking. Wine made my tongue too loose during arguments. I don't trust him to handle things and not sure if that's because of my issues with anxiety or it's deserved.
Q9: Who is the Leader
I think it's split? He's the primary breadwinner and I do try to defer to him for big stuff, but I handle all of our finances and feel like I have to be the one looking at the details of everything or they will fall through the cracks. He likes to be given honey-do lists and constantly defers to me on what I want to do in regards to our schedule. It's aggravating even though I realize there's a good intent behind it.
Q10: Tell us about the good times.
I still am in love with the nerd. He's funny, when we were getting along better we would laugh together so much and just click in the right way. He's an excellent father. We travel together very well and we make great friends.
Do not brace yourself for cheating. Cheating is unacceptable and you do not deserve it.
I do wonder if he's looking at porn a lot more than you think. Healthy men have a sex drive that makes them want sex far more than every month or so. This means that his drive is being fulfilled elsewhere (porn, masturbation, affair) or is not healthy (low-T, other issues). So look at your computer and figure it out.
But start with some basic communication. Initiate sex more often. Say, once a week, to experiment. See how he responds. After sex sometime, tell him you'd like to do it more often.
Are you still fighting frequently? How are things overall? Is he enthusiastic about sex when you have it?
We aren't fighting as much lately, but I think a lot of that is me letting go of more stuff and trying really hard to be nicer, even if it means biting my tongue if he's upset.
Things overall are okay, if boring, apart from the sex. Not as good as before, but I'm feeling better in general so my outlook has improved.
I will try the initiations. I think I'm afraid I'll be rejected and the idea of him giving me pity sex is repugnant. There was an incident a few months back that cut my initiations down severely. I initiated and we had sex, after which he said he "felt like I wasn't into it" and "wished we hadn't even bothered." That stung like hell. I don't want to force sex on him if he doesn't want me.
Welcome, you are doing the right things, congrats on already dropping 20 pounds. That's a big move in a very good direction. You don't have to be at your perfect weight or even your pre-marriage weight to get his attraction back. Most men are pretty forgiving and will consider their wives very fuckable even if they are far from their best. That's not to say that you won't continue to see improvements as you get to that goal weight. But you may be pleasantly surprised at his reaction to you simply moving in the right direction. You are hotter now than you were 20 pounds ago, and 20 pounds from now will be even better. Don't focus too much on your end goal, just know that motion in the right direction will help no matter what.
We men don't need perfection to be attracted. As you work on your physical form also work on that attitude that you have been improving, being pleasant, willing and enthusiastic counts for a whole bunch. You don't have to initiate, but think of ways that you can advertise your availability, there is absolutely nothing wrong with making it blatantly obvious that you are down to fuck if he's so inclined. That's very attractive to most of us men, we're a sucker for an available woman, particularly if we're married to her
I don't see anything in your posts about exercise, do either you or your husband make a habit of exercising on a regular basis? We humans are designed to be in constant motion, our bodies just operate better that way. It can improve your outlook on life, give you more energy, sexual and otherwise, and all around just add positive energy to your life.
Again good work on what you have accomplished already. Stick around, this is fixable and we'll be here to help.
Even if that does not prove enough, by making yourself highly valuable you become a prize that is worth working to keep. That puts you in a position to expect or demand change and motivate him to want to do it to keep you.
The best way to get someone to change it to help them understand the positive and negative consequences of making those changes. If the negative of not doing anything or the positives of doing something outweigh the effort involved then, and only then will the changes get made.
Think back to yourself, losing 100 pounds is really hard work, it involves sacrifice and discipline. It is so much easier to just carry on with what you are doing. But you have decided that the positive consequences to your life by putting in that effort are worthwhile. It is that, and only that which will allow you to succeed. We can cheer you on, but only you can do the hard work.
Just thought I would mention a couple of things that might help you out.
Firstly: properly used, admiration can be a great seduction tool for women to use on men. Marabel Morgan calls it the "you're wunnerful" technique.
Yes . . . it really is that simple. Men are much simpler than women.
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Secondly: while your weight is a problem, both for your attractiveness, and for your health as you approach middle age, it doesn't mean you can't start to be a femme fatale.
Hot external beauty isn't everything about female attractiveness. There's a certain feral attractiveness that exudes from certain women . . . it comes from within.
One way to develop attractiveness is to develop a throaty, breathy, low voice that purrs attraction to your man. You might find these articles interesting:
http://phys.org/news193585517.html
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-1268626/The-husky-voice-seduction-A-lower-tone-speaking-opposite-sex-sure-sign-attraction.html
Think about Marylin Monroe. Both in her day, and even now, she's still considered to be the sexiest woman of all time. But looks wise, she wasn't as physically attractive as many of the other blonde bombshells of her day.
Here's what director Mike Nichols had to say about her:
“She wasn’t particularly a great beauty, that is to say, Hedy Lamarr or Ava Gardner would knock the hell out of her in a contest, but she was almost superhumanly sexual.”
"Marilyn’s heat went deeper, with a walk, a look and movements that were an out-and-out open seduction right in front of everyone.”
If you can cultivate this inner siren, you'll be able to have your hubby, or any other man, wrapped around your little finger.
It might be instructive to look at Monroe's infamous birthday performance for JF Kennedy:
or her famous coca cola commercial
These photos taken of Monroe doing her fitness routines are interesting too.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2595707/Those-famous-curves-hard-work-Marilyn-Monroe-works-home-rarely-seen-images-taken-LIFE-magazine.html
He might make big decisions, but that is outweighed by the hundreds of day to day decisions you make. And the fact that he gets 'honey-do' lists marks you as the leader.
By the way, honey-do lists are not viewed very favorably around here.
I admire your willingness to cop the blame for the problems in your marriage. So don't say thisto tell you in any way that it's not your fault but part of your grumpiness might be the fact that you are an unwilling leader.
You need not initiate sex in a negative situation. You can initiate if you want to, but you don't have to. This is where we trot out the forum adage that "you MAP for you." One mistake frequently made by women is that we think if we just become the pretty, sexually open sexpot of men's dreams, then our husbands will be so happy! But it doesn't work that way. The MAP process of becoming higher value is not about becoming an always-sexually-available, submissive people-pleaser. It's about having and displaying high value, holding yourself to a high standard, and eventually holding others to a high standard. It's about asserting yourself, prioritizing yourself, refusing to be dragged down by the negativity of others.
In essence, keep running your MAP. You're already doing a great job. Just focus on yourself and worry about sex for later. In the meantime, inject positive energy into your home life. If it's at all financially feasible, sign up for 12-week coaching. You are still the leader in your family, so just roll with it. Certainly avoid being bossy and picky and over-bearing, but don't be afraid to do what needs to be done.
Do you have a fun activity to do when you're home? If he comes home all negative and complaining and wanting to fight, go do something else. This is enormously easier when you actually have something to do!
In my Pre-MMSL days, she was well over 300 lbs and I was angry and bitter. The sex was not good and infrequent, not because she didn't want it, but because I never initiated - essentially I wanted sex just not with her - but I still blamed the wife for our lousy sex life. I adopted a "why bother" mindset and had started to let myself go. Heavy heavy porn use. I pretty much checked out of the marriage and let her deal with everything, which did nothing to improve her attitude or our relationship. I was ready to file or go have an affair. Instead, I found and read the Primer and started to make changes for myself.
Today things are much better; the changes I made in myself have affected her in positive ways. While she is still obese, she has lost quite a bit of weight and has learned to compensate for that lack of attractiveness in other ways to keep me interested. It is still a struggle, but tolerable.
So what can a fat woman do to get her husband interested in her again? Pretty much everything in the MAP book, but I'll share a few tidbits that had the best effect on me.
-Give him hope. Show him that you are trying to improve. Let him see you exercise. Don't brag about every pound lost, but do complain about the jeans that have gotten too big. Even though you are making these changes for yourself, he'll see it as you changing for him, and that should make him feel special and loved.
-Avoid the "Fat Walmart Chick" cliche. Never wear sweats and a t-shirt again. Dress your best, even when at home relaxing. You have a lot to compensate for and dressing nice can do a lot for that. Accentuate your best features. always wear your makeup, and do what you can to look as good as possible.
-Don't snack in front of him. By all means, share your meals together, but avoid snacking in front of him. For me, seeing my wife sitting on the couch putting food in her mouth is a huge turn-off. It doesn't matter whether it's Cheetos or something healthy like carrots, it kills any attraction for her.
-Unsolicited Blowjobs. Unless he has low T issues, he wants to have sex, but he won't initiate as much as he needs because the attraction isn't there. So even though it is his own damn fault he's not getting laid, he still sees himself as having a lousy sex life and is going to blame you for it. You are going to have to be more overtly sexual than most women. Don't go overboard - make him work for it once in a while - but unsolicited blowjobs will do wonders. Use lingerie to hide the worst of it, but be careful - lingerie for big girls is hard to fit and will often make you look more comical than sexy. So keep is simple - use sheer babydolls or camies with stockings and heels, enough to hide some of the extra weight but add much needed sex appeal. Be fun, daring, & adventurous. Remind him that sex, even with a fat girl, is an awful lot of fun.
Hope this helps.
Tiger, I've just started to exercise, although it's not as regular as I'd like yet. I'm trying to work up to joining a gym (wanting to lose weight first, silly as that is). For now I've just managed to sneak walks in after the child goes to bed or do a workout video. Kettlebells are pretty fun, I'm finding.
Scarlet, that is another big Red in my life. The lack of fun. I've just begun to work myself out of the fog of "Do I have fingerpaint in my hair?" toddler days, and with my renewed commitment to housework the balance is still really off. We were trying to save money for years and I've sort of practical-ed myself into an unbalanced state.
Ernestern, thank you for the advice. I'm not losing my weight for him, but I'm well aware that it's difficult to be very physically attracted to me in this state. I wouldn't be so I'm not expecting him to be. The advice on dressing better has been taken to heart. Losing more will help as I have a lot of nicer, smaller clothing in storage. He has commented at dinner recently "That's all you're eating?" So it seems like he's noticing something.
The way I see this play out is.
You've nailed it. Working on the good will aspect. Athol's blogs about "assume love" have helped. The eating is a major self-comfort thing and a vicious cycle. It's going to take time to fix, but this is where I'm coming from.
Of course, you don't want to bust the family budget by overbuying before your weight has stabilized, but you'll need new basics anyway. Use this opportunity to rebuild your wardrobe with the most flattering pieces and styles in each successive size. E.g., short skirts are probably for later but yoga pants and bootcut jeans may already be a possibility. Get scientific about it: get your color analysis done to know what colors flatter you the most (seasonal colors - are you an Autumn or a Spring, etc), get yourself professionally measured for a bra, research how to dress your body type, decide what your asset areas are and dress to emphasize them (cleavage is probably already your friend, and guys love cleavage). At any weight you can have a frumpy presentation or a sexy, confident one.
Replace all your underwear and socks - does wonders for feeling sexy!
Online shopping is great for moms with young children (and you don't have to face those unfriendly mirrors in dressing rooms).
And seeing you looking better and trying harder will likely give your husband some of that hope people mentioned upthread, not to mention your own confidence.
Above all, have fun!