New to Red Pill life,-- Engaged Long Distance

guff

So I recently stumbled on the red-pill Reddit which very much intrigued me, and definitely made a ton of sense. However I am also a firm Christian and alot of things from that Reddit page are not quite what I want to fill my mind with all the time, so I did some additional searching, found this blog/forum, found freenorthers blog, Vox's blog, and Deep Strengths blog to try and focus more on a Christian perspective on this. I also just purchased the MMSL primer on kindle, to start reading through as well. 

I am 24, engaged to get married next summer, and in a long distance relationship. We are both strong Christians, who are waiting to get married to have sex, because we believe that it is sin for us to do otherwise. It is far from easy, and we definitely have a chemistry and sexual attraction.  We've been dating for almost 3 years now since I was a Senior and she was a Freshmen, engaged for over a year, and still have 9 months to go. Both of us pretty much want to get married right now and rip our clothes off, but were waiting it out till she finishes college and we can actually move in together. (We also don't want to be married and living apart for those first several months.) I'm working about 4 hours away (use to be CA-IN, now OH-IN), so we see each other about 1-2 times a month.

 I am her very first relationship, while I have had a few not so great ones during college, so I am 99.999% sure she has had no sexual experiences with someone else before. I have had sexual interactions during those other relationships though never intercourse. Part of why I broke those relationships up was because I was not in fully in control of myself and they didn't have any desire to stop anyway--not healthy to me as a Christian guy trying to live for Christ. I have also been addicted to porn since High School, and am actively trying to kill that sin prior to marriage, which is probably the hardest thing I have ever tried to do. Trying to kill that addiction without any other sexual relief is no easy task. 

I am an introvert and display mostly Beta characteristics, though I have a few physical Alpha traits. I have always been that nice guy who absolutely loves to cuddle--(my primary love language is physical touch). I am 6'4'' tall, been lifting consistently for about 2 year now, so for the first time I actually have some muscle definition and a decent BMI. I am working to be in the best shape/looks of my life for our wedding night/honeymoon next summer. Part of that goal is to be able to overhead press her for Ballroom Dance lifts.

Most of our time is spent talking on Skype when we can and the visits we do have, both of us are fairly busy. I feel like most of that time I am showing beta characteristics--comforting her, catering to her, being that "nice guy" etc. I have always been that nice guy who absolutely loves to cuddle--(my primary love language is physical touch). She is very fragile (like a butterfly) and can get upset/sad/crying when I am firm with her in my opinion. I don't believe this is because she is trying to manipulate me, but it is just her raw emotions coming through. 

So how can I keep that Alpha attraction going when we only Skype twice a week and see each other 1-2 times a month, while keeping in mind that her emotions are very fragile. I want to be her rock but I also hate upsetting her, though I am willing to do so on things I care about and believe in. 

Mongrel

"I want to be her rock but I also hate upsetting her"

Oh boy...

This is the thing that jumped out to me in all I read above. Look, nobody wants to intentionally upset our Special Snowflake but if you are going to go through life walking on eggshells because she is 'fragile' you've got a lifetime of agony in your future. Her 'fragile' emotions are hers to deal with, not yours. You don't go around catering to her 'fragility'. Either she puts her big girl panties on and becomes an adult, or you'll be stuck with a weeping, woe-is-me wife for the rest of your days. Be a gentleman, but also be a leader. Don't get sucked into her teary-eyed vortex. Nip this in the bud now.

The Primer will be a great education for you and you'll certainly have a leg up on the rest of us who have 20+ years in before finding the red pill. You sound like a guy who may be too heavy on the 'beta' and I'd also suggest you read No More Mr Nice Guy by Dr Glover. There is such a thing as being 'too nice' and I get the feeling from your post you may be that kind of person.

guff

mrs_h, 
About the first week of us dating she warned me that she was fragile. Her mom is pretty much identical in that regards. The slightest stern word from her Dad will upset her mother.  She is an only daughter, and was very overprotected growing up because of that, which she recognizes and acknowledges. She is this way with most people, but it probably comes out the most with me because I am willing to listen. I usually don't agree with her upset comments, just tell her that things will improve and get better. Encourage her to deal with the stress etc. 

Sometimes cuddling becomes torturous to me yes. However it never stops me from wanting to cuddle.  The rip our clothes off usually comes from good night kisses, which lead to me getting a boner that she feels, and things escalate rather quickly. We stop ourselves from going to far, but I can tell by her body's reactions and her actions that she wants it just as much as I do. Both of us realize the importance of waiting though. It is torturous at times, which is I've layed down a new law that I am not allowed in her room alone with her. 

mongrel, 
In general I am an agreeable person, and subconsciously I hate upsetting anyone. I will argue on certain topics with others, but I always try to do so respectfully and calm. In the past I would just say something I didn't think was true just to get the rise out of that person, but that was mostly high school and early college.

I have stood up for my decisions/thoughts on our wedding planning stuff. Some of these things made her upset, but I didn't just give in to that. We figured out a compromise instead of it being either her way or my way--usually that compromise came from a 3rd party suggestion, since we were both stubborn. 

I know I am a beta by default and I need to increase my leadership. I would definitely agree with alot of comments on this blog on the other blogs I've been reading about how churches raise young men to be nice guys, not leaders. Last year I took a Men's Fraternity class at my church, and it was probably the first time in my life I've seen these strong traits encouraged in the church, but without the underlying understanding of women's natural subconscious reactions involved. The class' moto was: Reject Passivity, Lead Courageously, Accept Responsibility, and Seek God's Greater Reward. Some things were watered down in a effeminate way, but 90% was on being a strong male leader. We even made our own version of the MAP, called our manhood plan focusing on specific achievable goals and how we will take action to get there.

I read the first couple chapters of the primer last night, and oh man am I excited to keep learning this stuff. I always seek out learning from others failures before I make those same mistakes. And one thing I know for certain, I am going to want to make up for all these years of not having sex once I am married, and this has some great wisdom to make that happen

Mongrel

That men's fraternity class at your church sounds like a rare and wonderful thing.

The Primer in the early pages explains what I call the biology of women, and I think it's fascinating (and certainly true). If only they had taught us that stuff when we were in school, right?

The only thing I would caution is as you read through the rest of the book and learn all the wondrous things Athol teaches, don't foist everything upon your new bride at once. You two will be boinking like rabbits for awhile, so introducing some of the advanced stuff right away probably won't be appropriate. But don't wait years to implement the skills either.

As Athol says "The bedroom comes last". You know your biggest challenge is becoming the Captain. Focus on that. The rest will follow.

Tiger_Lily

@guff‌ Welcome.  This is a great place, lots of wise people who can provide great advice, about marriage, sex and just life in general.  You're way ahead of the game already if you're thinking and researching these things before you're even married.

You probably know though, that this is a secular site - you mentioned in the OP that you're looking for a more Christian perspective.  Some folks on here are Christian (I am one) but the program itself is not.  It is, however, quite Biblical in many ways, beginning with its central preference for "one and done" traditional, monogamous marriage, emphasis on the man's responsibility to lead, the insight that proper leadership will inspire attraction/submission in the wife, etc.

There are, of course, important differences as well, e.g. neither porn nor divorce (for reasons other than adultery) are considered out of bounds here even though they would be for many Christians.  That being said, the folks here are really compassionate, almost pastoral in outlook, they're more interested in your success than in ranting against the manifold failures of today's gender relations, unlike some of the other Manosphere sites you mentioned.

I would also recommend Athol's other book, the Mindful Attraction Plan, as well as reading through his blog from beginning to end - there is more good stuff there that didn't make it into the books.  And, of course, the forum.

Happy reading

SaigoTakamori

Welcome to the forum.    Truths abound here, some may fit your beliefs some may be outside of your knowledge base so I suggest you keep an open mind.

JellyBean

guff said:

 I can tell by her body's reactions and her actions that she wants it just as much as I do.

Are you sure about that?

For some reason this quoted statement above^^^ jumped out at me.  It suggests to me that you haven't had a conversation about sex and desire, and you are making assumptions. 

Anyway, welcome to MMSL.  Athol and Jen had a long-distance engagement and waited until just before marriage, and they are leading the pack here so there may be something to it.

Mark72

So how's it going? Wedding day about here?