Visiting with a lawyer, any advice?

Cubed45

So my previous thread was deleted at my request, I didn't want any personally identifiable information out here in case I end up in court.  

So, I'm going to see a lawyer on Friday.  I'll more than likely be getting divorce papers within the coming months to present to my wife for an A/B ultimatum.  But, I'm also preparing myself for the situation where I have to walk away and divorce her if she doesn't choose option A.  

During this initial conversation with the lawyer, I'd like to know what advice any of you might have about what questions I need to ask them.  What should I look for in a lawyer?  

My goal is to use the divorce papers as leverage when presenting the ultimatum, is this something I should share with my lawyer?  Are there any strategic downsides to doing this with my wife if she chooses option B?

JellyBean

Do not be mushy and sentimental about the settlement proposal. Be as aggressive as your counsel will go. You want Atilla the Hun, Esquire. 

And yes, share your A/B plan with your attorney. Always share everything with your attorney. 

Wildflower

Understanding what your obligations are (if any) for alimony, child support, and division of assets, including retirement plans is in order. If you are in a financial position to do so, you may also want to ask about the possibility of what a lump sum settlement could look like if you truly want to just walk away with no financial strings attached. 

The things to look for in a lawyer: years of experience, how many of their cases go to trial, if mediation available, how do they work with mediators, what their rates are hourly vs. retainer, etc. Listen for how plugged in they are with the judicial system, is the person explaining the process to you in terms you feel comfortable with, and finally, do you get a good feeling from them (gut instinct)? 

Share your strategy with your lawyer.

Carrotcake

Prepare yourself mentally to follow your lawyer's advice. They will tell you to do things your hamster will balk at. 

I don't think you want a divorce attorney who has a high rate of taking cases to trial. Yikes.  

Frank_London

Whatever the lawyer says, do. Take it from someone who has learned that lesson the hard way.

Some of the advice will go against your natural instincts.
Just remember that the lawyer is the expert.

On the other hand, the lawyer will follow your lead to an extent. If you are wishy-washy, the lawyer will provide wishy-washy solutions for you. 

Tell the lawyer everything that's relevant. Also remember, it's all confidential. A conversation with a lawyer is the most confidential conversation that our society permits. Things you tell your mum can, in theory, turn up in a court of law. Secrets you tell your lawyer will never, ever see the light of day.

As for low ratio of cases to trial, you have to watch that number at both ends. I needed a high-conflict street-fighting lawyer, and my first lawyer was an easy-going guy who wanted to play nice, even though that wasn't what was called for.

Tennee

@Frank_London said:

Just remember that the lawyer is the expert.

Practicing law is much like many other disciplines, there are specialties within the discipline.   A law degree does not connote expertise in divorce law; its a law degree.  Make sure the lawyer is indeed an 'expert' in the specialty you require.  You don't go see your GP for neurosurgery. 

I needed a high-conflict street-fighting lawyer, and my first lawyer was an easy-going guy who wanted to play nice, even though that wasn't what was called for.

This is why that's important. 

fordsvt

SO you presented the wife with A/B and she took B?
Or didn't change?

How long did you Map for

Cubed45

fordsvt said:

SO you presented the wife with A/B and she took B?
Or didn't change?

How long did you Map for

No I've not presented anything yet.  I just want to get my ducks in a row in case it doesn't go as planned.

Been doing the map only for a couple weeks now, struggling.

Tennee

@Cubed45 said:

Been doing the map only for a couple weeks now, struggling.

This is oft repeated 'round here man:  its a marathon, not a sprint.  1 month MAPping for every year of relationship; more is needed if there's been damage done.  The knowledge is power, so talk to the attorney.  But don't rush this - you have a long road ahead. 

Blackwulf

Part of going to an attorney is to kill the fear that you have inside for it going down that road, which can make it honestly easier for you to do the things that you need to do in your marriage.  You need to really decide if you automatically want to go A/B route because it is a major display of low value if you won't back it up.

I would definitely focus on getting the best custody deal you can since you have a small child.  
  

Mustache

Blackwulf said:

Part of going to an attorney is to kill the fear that you have inside for it going down that road, which can make it honestly easier for you to do the things that you need to do in your marriage.  You need to really decide if you automatically want to go A/B route because it is a major display of low value if you won't back it up.

I would definitely focus on getting the best custody deal you can since you have a small child.  
  

Not only killing the fear of action, but killing (or creating) the fear of the $$$ factor is important information.

In my case it was $1,000 for a separation agreement, $1,200 for a divorce and only if everything went straight forward. Of course plus sales of houses, split of bank accounts, transfer of ownership on vehicles and houses and such.

I had a super easy separation and divorce. No arguments between lawyers, no court battle, nothing expensive and it still cost me, once all was set and done, over $20,000. House sales, vehicle division, savings split, all sorts of transfer costs.

So, add all known expenses up and then multiply that number by 2 or more depending what type of spouse you have. Type as in spiteful, aggressive, defensive...you get the picture.

Keep in mind that everything you own jointly will most likely be split in half, so you need to have a good knowledge about what happens with vehicles, savings, investments, houses, even household goods, insurances, loans...

Anything you change or transfer may have fees associated. IF you move into a new residence you may need first month rent and utility down payments. Some states will charge you sales tax if you transfer a vehicle owner ship to a non-spouse, so this may have to be done before a divorce.

Also, if you have kids, you may have child care expenses. So before a court decides on custody, how are you treating the kids expenses?

Google is your friend, find out what applies to you in your state/county/country.

If you can, talk to someone who just went through a divorce, you will learn a lot.

This research will be very eye-opening.

I know, this was not directly lawyer related, but you should always ask all those questions your lawyer first.

ETA some $$$ details.

Piglet

Lawyer here, although I don't practice family law.  A whole lot of it depends on the specifics of your situation, especially big city vs. small town, the amount of money at stake, any complex or unusual assets or liabilities, etc.  

Generally, though, what I think you want to look for is someone who practices frequently in the court where you are likely to end up, who knows the judges well and is familiar with at least most of the attorneys who might be on the other side, and someone who is transparent about billing arrangements and is willing to candidly discuss costs and budget at the beginning of a representation.  If you are in a one-horse town with one decent lawyer, lock them up now.  If you are in a big city with a vibrant bar, that's less critical.  

If it is going to get contentious, actual stand-up trial experience is a must; there are lots of lawyers who never try cases and than can be fine in a lot of contexts, but if you think your spouse is one to go to the mattresses, you need a soldier.  You might ask how many cases the lawyer has tried to a decision (either jury or judge) in the past couple of years. You also want someone who actually specializes in this type of case, not one who handled one five years ago but principally does other things.  Ask specific questions about past experience.  A good lawyer will respect your due diligence and caution in this regard.  

The other important thing is a lawyer who can explain things to you in a way that you can understand them; I agree with the posters above that you should basically do whatever they say, because some things are a little counterintutive -- BUT the lawyer should be able to explain to you WHY certain things are necessary and give you the pros and cons of alternative courses of action.  Any legal concept can be explained in a way that a reasonably bright high schooler can understand (although they will have to take the details on faith) IF a lawyer cares to do so. Make sure the once you choose is one of those.  Don't take "it's too complicated" for an answer, and don't accept gobbledygook you can't understand.  If the lawyer won't take the time to explain things so you understand them, you should be somewhat suspicious.  

Beyond that, trust your gut.   You will have to trust this person with lots of personal information, and you will end up taking a lot of things on faith.  It's got to be someone you are comfortable with, and people seem pretty good at getting a bad feeling about sketchy people.  

markymapo

I forgot your whole situation (so many threads to read here) but I vaguely remember it. Get the free advice from lawyer but give your MAP some time. You must first present yourself as a husband your wife will lose and another woman will gain. I've been at it for two years and I still have my ups and downs. Set yourself a timeline. More like 1 year...say to yourself, not her, I'll give it till next thanksgiving. 1 year is worth trying, than giving up on everything in two months. Believe me, you'll be a better version of yourself if your marriage does not work out. Plus, you'll be able to tell yourself that you did everything possible to make this work in the end. That's worth a lot. 

HildaCorners

The best divorce lawyers are:

50% shark
50% tax accountant
50% therapist

You need the shark in case of any conflict. Many times the cases come down to "my lawyer is tougher than your lawyer", so you want the tougher one. This is especially important if there's a chance the divorce will be high conflict.

A surprising amount of divorce law is about money: support, alimony, property division, retirement fund division, etc. Your lawyer needs to be comfortable running the numbers and tax advantages.

Finally, you will need someone who can help you deal with the rough spots and nasty bits. Your lawyer has to manage your emotions, especially in court and in front of your ex.

Finally, cheaper isn't necessarily good, if the cheap lawyer takes twice as long. Then again, expensive may mean you're just paying for a down town office. Go by ability, then pay what you have to.