Long Time Reader/Lurker.... Divorce or fight, what more can I do?

fordsvt

Look deep. It could be as simple as not being a leader. Or being to Beta. She's bored and not attracted. It is a combination of many things. You need to work through things and make each other a priority in life. 

Blackwulf

I think it could just be a case of your wife hitting early middle age and needing to feel young, you add on top she wasn't happy  going back to work immediately (some level of resentment there).  She wanted you to provider, you didn't step up.  Now she is out earning you too.    

Doubting_Thomas

Blackwulf said:

I think it could just be a case of your wife hitting early middle age and needing to feel young, you add on top she wasn't happy  going back to work immediately (some level of resentment there).  She wanted you to provider, you didn't step up.  Now she is out earning you too.    

She actually wasn't happy  being a mother, and it messed with her head...  I told her she could stay at home, but she refused, she thought she'd go crazy being a stay at home mom.

Doubting_Thomas

She saw how much i loved being a dad, possibly resented me for it...we'll see

soa2005

@Doubting_Thomas‌ ;
You seem like an excellent husband. Your last couple of posts were insightful. Your wife wasn't happy being a mother, it messed with her head, and she possibly resented the fact that you loved being a father. Changing hormones during pregnancy and after giving birth can sometimes make mothers do crazy things. I am not excusing your wife's behavior but this might be something to think about. 

Doubting_Thomas

 I'm backtracking all of the evidence, trying to put any pieces of the puzzle together.  

I mean, if she didn't want to come to me, I understand that.  But she has an AMAZING support network.  I can think of 5 friends she could call about her life, and would talk to her no judgement at all.  Why didn't she reach out to anyone?

About a month ago, I saw her write on  POSOM fb wall.  Just wondering where he was at work, and him telling her was on vacation'.  It piqued my curiosity, i thought it was strange, but like an idiot trusted her.  Obviously they weren't in the thick of it yet, because those messages would've occurred privately, either text or on the messenger app, but not on the wall for everyone to see.

So at this point, my radar is up.  I think they 'like' each other, but I'm still giving her the benefit of the doubt.  Her good friend is getting remarried, and we always joked how they were attracted to each other.  Basically saying, well now that's out of the picture.  

She said, well is that cheating?  I looked her dead in the eye and said cheating is when you lie.  I remember saying we are all adults, we know when we cross boundaries.  Even talked about POSOM.  She would tell me some of there conversations, and i said point blank, he has a crush on you.  I kept silence, gave her room to tell me something.  And nothing.  She could've come clean right there, and I wouldn't be sitting here typing this.  They had already crossed the line, but she was too much in the fog to tell me.  And i had no evidence, just suspicion.

So now, i'm more then suspicious...  But again, I trust her.  And I think, he's coming to my house with his wife and family, so obviously they are just friends.  It completely threw me off...

Doubting_Thomas

Okay, I'm starting to come to the realization that this marriage is worth a shot.  But i need help with my Map.

She needs to do some soul searching and figure a lot of this out on her own...but i'm not going to wait around for her to come to an epiphany.

I need to take more of a leadership role with her.  I need to get her out of the house and relax without the baby.  I need to get her off of email/phones.  She's addicted.  We used to have the no phone in the bedroom rule, but since the baby I let my rules slide.

She's a perfectionist.  In the middle of the past year her language of love transitioned from acts of service to words of affirmation.  I need to get back to my 1st 5 minute rule.  I used to stop whatever i was doing, and we would give each other attention for the 1st 5 minutes of us coming back home from work.

She's going to church on Sunday.  I'm going to take the baby grocery shopping and get that all done w/out her knowledge when she's at church.  (She desperately needs some alone time, and i think church is a positive place for her to get that.  I'll eventually try to go with her, but not yet)

We used to go to church all the time, but i slowly became more bitter, and less religious.  She's been saying for ever she wanted to go back, and it just doesn't feel right to me. I did tell her she could go, and i'd watch the baby, but i should've directed her to go.

I instituted 'spritiual sunday's when the baby was 2-3 months old.  But that only lasted 2-3 weeks.  Basically it was stretching/meditation/gratitude/spiritual reading/discussion...  I would ask her to come when it was convenient and no shock but with the baby it was never convenient

My biggest question is that I'm a pleaser.  I want to desperately do whatever i can to please her, and i think then i'll get lots of sex.  She's almost impossible to please.  

I'm thinking i need to stay on top of the money sitatuion.  She could spiral into debt during this time, and that's not good for anyone.

Physical, she needs to workout.  Thoughts on asking her to workout at night after the baby is down with me?  We have a pretty decent set-up in our basement where we can do the 3 major lifts, and i think it would be great for our relationship because she could see me in a position of strength.

Relationship comfort...it's going to take a LOT of time.  And i do realize that.  But the weird thing through all of this, the paranoia really dissipated after the 1st week.  I'm not saying i don't check her phone/email, and such, but def not constant.  

Personality...she needs to work on her perfectionism and relaxing in the chaos.  I can assist, but that's on her.  I'll be more in tune to it now, but 

Sex...i want her to instigate...She never does.  I know she feels extremely hesitant because she know's how emotionally fragile i am, but i need that.


Wow...the past year looking back, i thought i had it all.  But my relationship was pretty rocky.  I was def in the new born haze, and was so happy to have a family i almost lost it...

Anything you guys can add?  Is this too much too soon?  Or am in critical phase where it's time for an all out blitz?

The_Dude

Listen man, I know how this goes. Don't feel like you need to make any permanent decision right now.  Set that aside and take the anguish over it off your plate.  You can make that decision any time you want.   And don't make some grand recommitment when you feel really good either.

The_Dude

I read your list above and I don't feel very confident you've identified the core issues. Let me ask a couple questions and try and be as objective and detailed as possible. 

How is your sex life?  What's it like?

are you funny? Cocky? Confident?  Uptight? Boring?

you do things that excite her?  Take her on unexpected adventures?  Are you a source of dopamine?

what's this about being emotional fragile? And connected to sex?  Spell that out in detail. 

The part you write about being a pleaser and expecting that to lead to sex....   You say your a long time lurker right (sorry if I misremember).  If so you must know by now about the Nice Guy syndrome.   Have you read that book?   If you have this pattern this is a top priority to fix.  I have a feeling from some other things you wrote that you may have issues in this area. 

Words of affirmation was a large problem for me. It's an easy one to fix.  Put out some detail in this area.  My wife is a bit vain (or insecure about her looks or whatever). She's very good looking but for some reason needs to be told that.  Your wife may have other things she needs to hear. 

Has as she said anythig about why she was not attracted to you?  Have you two been able to crack through the old walls?

The_Dude

In these situations you have a short window to change the dynamic.  For the next six months you need to make this priority number one.  I'm not exaggerating that after a year I would run into people and they wouldn't recognize me.  My boss of five years was talking to me for 10 minutes before he realized who I was.  Not just looks but other things.  I'm the same guy just unchained if you know what I mean.
Not saying you have the same issues, but you need to assess accurately and then you have to make bold moves.   Forget what's fair and all that.   Be the guy who excites her. Whatever that takes.  If she doesn't see a different future then your not going to win this.  If she does, you can pull her in like never before. 

Doubting_Thomas

The_Dude said:

I read your list above and I don't feel very confident you've identified the core issues. Let me ask a couple questions and try and be as objective and detailed as possible. 

How is your sex life?  What's it like? 

are you funny? Cocky? Confident?  Uptight? Boring?

you do things that excite her?  Take her on unexpected adventures?  Are you a source of dopamine?

what's this about being emotional fragile? And connected to sex?  Spell that out in detail. 

The part you write about being a pleaser and expecting that to lead to sex....   You say your a long time lurker right (sorry if I misremember).  If so you must know by now about the Nice Guy syndrome.   Have you read that book?   If you have this pattern this is a top priority to fix.  I have a feeling from some other things you wrote that you may have issues in this area. 

Words of affirmation was a large problem for me. It's an easy one to fix.  Put out some detail in this area.  My wife is a bit vain (or insecure about her looks or whatever). She's very good looking but for some reason needs to be told that.  Your wife may have other things she needs to hear. 

Has as she said anythig about why she was not attracted to you?  Have you two been able to crack through the old walls?

Sex life has been duty sex for a long time.  Can't remember the last time she initiated.  She know's how important sex is to me in a marriage, I'm not going to live in a sexless marriage.  This is my language of love, and when it wasn't meant, i froze her out.  I was robotic, monotonous, and going through the motions.  I was there with Alexander, but I wasn't 'there' with her. 

I am funny.  I can make her laugh at the drop of the hat.  Even since D-day, I'm able to make her laugh.   I'm cocky as well.  I may actually be too cocky.

I haven't done much to excite her in the past year.  I was in the 'new dad' glow.  Just wanted to stay home with my family.  We tried, we went to concerts, and to dinners, but neither of our hearts were in it.  We needed a night of sleep, not a night out.

She knew i'd rather be home with the baby.  When she got that dopamine hit from the OM it was over, and there was no turning back.  She wasn't getting a dopamine hit from me.  (I assumed she was getting it from the baby through breastfeeding)

She see's my stoic calm as not being empathetic...  

dalef

Form what she said to her friends, she is upset that being a mother doesn't excite her. (That's why she couldn't talk to her friends; how do you say ' I'm not bonding to my son.")

fordsvt

I can tell you I am and was in the same place. She needs to get the Dopamine hits from you!!! Not some other guy...period. You need to ignite some Responsive Desire.
Read Athol's blog on this and it may enlighten you....

Doubting_Thomas

Figured I'd give an update.  

Filed for no fault divorce with no attorney.  Seems pretty straight forward in my state.  I also work with contracts all day long, so I'm very comfortable with legal language.  

I understand that this could backfire, but it's a risk i'm willing to take. The honest/true path for me was to be completely open and honest and even vulnerable with her about my decision.  Time will tell if I'm a sucker or not. 90 days until we finalize, and we get the decree in the mail.  No court date, no lawyers, no foolishness.  

We both recognized pretty quickly that what's best for the baby is that we are on speaking terms and remain amicable.  We both understand that if we fight over money through lawyers it is going to create a toxic relationship, and someone is going to lose and be bitter.

Every conversation we've had about splitting assets has been reasonable.  She moved out a week ago into an apartment.  I was adamant about staying in the house until it was sold.  We are splitting time with our son, and have a Google calendar on who get's him when.

She has a good friend who's been through an amicable 'DIY' divorce in our state, similar to ours.  That relationship may be saving me thousands...

I think another key in our situation is that we both are have well paying jobs.  

I've been reading up on Stoic philosophy and have accepted my locust of control and am really trying to frame this situation as one of the best tests of my self control, ability to hold frame, and keeping my anger in check.

Frank_London

Thanks for the update.

Sorry it didn't work out, but it sounds like a very amicable divorce. If it works out, then yes you are right, it will save you thousands.

fordsvt

Sorry to hear you've filed.  What changed your mind?  
You seemed on target to want to save the marriage. 

Doubting_Thomas

fordsvt said:

Sorry to hear you've filed.  What changed your mind?  
You seemed on target to want to save the marriage. 

Marriage counseling didn't go well.  Our living situation was unhealthy. I told her I didn't want to live like this and wanted a divorce.  She signed a lease for an apartment. 

She admitted to me they were back in communication.  Any outside chance of reconciliation was gone.  I filed for divorce, she moved out.  

Her take is that if I wanted to work on our relationship she wouldn't have reached out to him, but since I wanted a divorce, what did it matter.  

I'd like to say that was the final straw, but she was right.  I wanted a divorce.  

I had spent 7 years trying to please the unpleasable women.  I busted my ass for my marriage.  And in return, I got duty sex and betrayed.  

She's not marriage material, but my ego (i can fix it), and my desire for sex (never mr. sauve) let me believe I had it all.

To be honest, I'd rather be alone.  

markymapo

You won't be alone. Some woman will see your great traits and snatch you up. 

Your STBXW was just not into fixing marriage and made excuses. You'll leave the marriage a much wiser man. 

Let her her see the affair/Om was not all rainbows and unicorns. I guarantee it. 

Doubting_Thomas

Divorce was finalized.  No alimony, no child support.  If either of us want to change the current situation with Lil Dude we'll have to go to court to prove something isn't working.  But so far so good.  It cost $320.  

Last thing to do is sell the house and everything will be 'settled'.   Gotta get on my DIY grind, and really attack it. 

I've been doing well with keeping my 'healthy habits.'  Eating really well, lots of chicken/rice/veggies.  Been hitting the gym hard, and playing basketball weekly. It really helps me get out that competitive aggression.  Abs are starting to come in.  I'd say i'm 2-3 weeks away.  Definitely the best shape of my life.  

Meditation has been a struggle, I'm lucky to sit 1-2 times a week.  I can't be in 'monk mode' if i'm not meditating...

I also can get after it harder at work.  I've been just keeping my head above water, but there is plenty to do.  It's been tough because they hired someone for a job that I wanted, and I'm basically training her.  She is older + 20 years of experience, but I haven't been overly impressed with anything she's bringing to the table.  She's nice enough, but it may be a clear sign to move on.  

But I probably need to limit the change and focus on one thing at a time, and right now it's the housing situation.

markymapo

Like you said, you don't want to spend the next 30 years wondering if she is still in contact with OM or found new other men. 

Have fun being single. I think you may enjoy the lack of stress not wondering if she is still contacting OM. 

Does she she plan on hooking up with OM now?
Did his wife leave him?