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Failures Are On a "Need to Know" Basis
Kickboxer
USASilver Member Posts: 1,120
I distinctly think that in order to show high value to society at large you definitely hid many, if not all, of your shortcomings. Many people on here have lackluster marriages and it doesn't add anything of value to their life to tell everyone they meet about it. You tell people on this forum because this is all about relationships and your seeking help. But you don't tell the barber or drinking buddies.
So I taught this to my son recently in an odd way. He is nine years old and pooped in his pants at school. It was really embarrassing for him. That night he had Jiu-Jitsu class while I was training. When training ended I found him sitting on the bench while the rest of this class was doing the formal martial arts, bow at the end of class. Turns out he warned the instructor that he thought he might mess up his pants again. Or maybe he just stank. They had him sit out of class as a precaution. He was again embarrassed.
I told him not to worry about it and that there was no need to tell his mother. I washed his Jiu-Jitsu stuff and he did have a brown streak in his underwear from that night.
So what is the opinion of the forum? Is this the type of thing that it's okay not to share with the woman (in this case mom)? I'm wanting to teach him not to publicize every minor failure. To me it comes down to teaching him not to be a whiner.
So I taught this to my son recently in an odd way. He is nine years old and pooped in his pants at school. It was really embarrassing for him. That night he had Jiu-Jitsu class while I was training. When training ended I found him sitting on the bench while the rest of this class was doing the formal martial arts, bow at the end of class. Turns out he warned the instructor that he thought he might mess up his pants again. Or maybe he just stank. They had him sit out of class as a precaution. He was again embarrassed.
I told him not to worry about it and that there was no need to tell his mother. I washed his Jiu-Jitsu stuff and he did have a brown streak in his underwear from that night.
So what is the opinion of the forum? Is this the type of thing that it's okay not to share with the woman (in this case mom)? I'm wanting to teach him not to publicize every minor failure. To me it comes down to teaching him not to be a whiner.
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How do you know when to draw that line?
"My advice to you is get married: if you find a good wife you'll be happy, if not, you'll become a philosopher." -Socrates
There's no point in advertising your screw ups to people who will do nothing else than think less of you for it. Just stand back up, recover your wits, and move forward. It's important not to allow others to define you by your failures.
In the context of having become a winner though, the stories of the screw ups of the past, make for a great story arc that America seems to eat up with a spoon.
It's like the Steve Jobs thing. If he had built Apple from the start and stayed with the company and eventually made the iEverything, he'd be liked, but not loved.
It's the getting fired from Apple, then coming back and saving Apple from failure, that makes him loved. I mean the whole thing just has "aaaaaand... cut to commercial" written all over it.
It's like jazz. As long as you finish on the correct note with clear intention, you can play almost any note on the way and it works.
One Hour Call 12-Week Guided MAP
"The turnaround is tremendous. And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects. I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force.
He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well." - Scarlet
In other words, best not to talk about your failures until and unless you can also talk about how you turned them around into stunning successes. I think that's good rule to follow in general, although sometimes you can't avoid talking about a failure while the turning around part is in progress, or maybe not even started yet; the foreclosure example is a good example there.
Um, yes they do.
If the incident was caused by absent mindedly or stupidly trying to hold it past the point of "touching cotton" when he should have just taken a break to go to the bathroom, then probably not something that needs to be shared with his mother.
If the incident was due to some unknown reason that may indicate more serious health issues, then his mother should be informed.
In the larger context of "when should I share my failures" I agree with the premise of "only when it directly impacts the party being informed". Otherwise being awesome means everyone doesn't need to know. Just like too much bragging about the good is a bad thing so is airing all your dirty laundry.
Into Phase 3..
Those Who Dare......Win. "What gives you fear today...Gives you Strength tomorrow.."I'm not sure how to feel about the idea of not sharing the accident with the mother. I only have one son, and he is only 4.5 months old. I can't imagine being okay with not knowing everything about him, but maybe that's because he's so new... and also because I'm not sure I trust my H to know what can be kept secret and what can be shared.
I like the idea of telling Mom on the DL, and making sure she doesn't say anything.
Perhaps an alternative to never admitting to an accident like that would be to choose wisely who you do admit it to - people who will support or help you with it. Because there is a study out there showing that men are much less likely than women to go to the doctor or seek help for a medical condition, and I can't help but wonder if that kind of thing has roots in the "keep this kind of thing to yourself, son" mentality.
I think instead of him keeping things to himself (and therefore eschewing any support he might get), I would want my son to be able to admit when something isn't right, and have the frame to completely dismiss anybody who might want to try to think less of him because of it.
The poop thing... I had a new employee, second day on the job. He comes to me a few hours before his scheduled lunch and asks if he can take lunch early. The shop was busy and it's his second day so I demurred - until he explained that he had to go to the store and get some new underwear. "I thought it was gas," he shrugged.
Of course I let him go and it was never mentioned again. I might rib a guy about certain shortcomings, but never about something that causes genuine embarrassment.
Why? When I was a teen, I did something embarassing: just one of those things that I really had no way of knowing on my own and was perfectly reasonable when you considered my thought process. But it made me look stupid. A few days later at a family gathering, I came upon my dad telling my uncles the story and I called him aside and asked him not to share it. He said OK, but I found out later from my brother that he told them after I left. I can't tell you how much harm this caused in my trust for my father. It came out later in an argument my dad and I had and he truly had not realized how big that was to me and apologized. Now, of course, the incident is untroubling, but when I was an insecure teen I looked at it differently.
Final story: I monitor the Internet in my home. There came a time when I found that my son had gone exploring into adult corners of the web. I sat down and talked to him about it, but Mom was not in the loop on it. In the end, he understood where the boundaries were and that if there were any further violations of our household rules, Mom would have to be in the know to help with policing. I never experienced another issue.
As far as how to manage it with your son, I see it in terms of an opportunity to teach him the value of frame. A game of thinking how others might respond given these were public situations and how he should react to them bringing it up - showing OI, agreeing and amplifying, not showing embarassment, laughing it off, knowing how to turn it around in the moment.
"Man! I guess I shouldn't have had that second burrito!" is often a much better response than "I am so embarrassed!" But at 9, unless he's a natural comic, the first reaction might not come to mind. However, learning this stuff should start young. I wish I had known it when I was younger and when my kids were his age - I definitely would have taught them. He might learn a lot just from watching you, but sometimes things need to be spelled out.
As for the "failures are on a need to know basis" aspect, I somewhat agree. I'm not about to go around trumpeting every little shortcoming to my wife. However, anything that has a potential for being an issue that affects the family in an important way, it needs to be up front and full disclosure. In the case with your son, a second occurance may be an indicator of a medical issue and mom should be in the loop on medical stuff. If it were to happen again, you would likely face disclosure of your secretly-washing-his-clothes-and-hiding-the-incident-from-mom. What impact would that have on your wife? Would that be a DLV or DHV?
Secrets, trust, embarassment, DHV, DLV... it can get twisty at times.
"The MAP is forever. Yes, it is exhausting and hard on the soul. But there is no rest for true men." - BeGoodHaveFun