answers to the 10 questions with my marriage story

justamen

1.  I am a man in my 30's originally from a European country, and married for 5 years to a wife from a Scandinavian country who is a few years younger than me.  We have 2 little girls (4 & 3 years old).  We lived in the Middle East for a few years and one year after getting married, we moved to my wife's original country.  I would say we both are pretty and attractive.  We are both tall.  My wife moved out 6 months ago and filed shortly afterwards for divorce.  Six months after filing, this country approves the divorce process even if the other person disagrees.  That deadline arrives in early February, at which time she is given a maximum of another six months to sign another paper for confirmation.   I feel it is an emergency situation for us.  Our church leaders have not done anything to help us stay together.

2.  We are both physically in a normal condition.  I have to struggle with problems focusing and memories. I have a high dopamine level; I'm not taking any medicine.  My wife is also not taking medicine but she is struggling with chronic fatigue.   We are both christians but we have theological disagreements that also created marriage problems.

3.  I am not fat, I have normal body size.  I am living in this foreign country for 4 years and had in his time 2 jobs (and in 1 case it was partly my fault that I lost the job) but at the moment I am practicing for a new job into a field where it's possible to get a job.  The government here has a program to help immigrants learn the local language and get job training.  I don't have any debt and can deal pretty good with the budget.

4.  I have never cheated on her, never beaten her or the kids.  I have no drug problem.   But I am sure that I disappointed and hurt her in many ways emotionally.  I have been uncareful with her or in general (for example doing things really quickly) and I lacked also in my memory.  For example, I often forgot things that we talked earlier about.  I disappointed her in a way that I was not caring enough for her when she was hiving birth the 2nd time.  I wasn't able also to satisfy her sexually.  I don't have an addiction.  I didn't put on enough deodorant and she said I do smell from time to time.  I also made her feel ashamed of me in public for several reasons.

5.   We had minimal sex during our marriage 1 or 2 times a month and already 8 month ago it stopped completely.  I had from time to time a problem with getting sexual satisfaction through visual source with sexual content.  I don't think my wife had that.   And we both had no affairs, as far as I know.

6.   Our intimacy declined in the period when we got our first child and the stressed increased.   Starting around one year from the wedding, during the first year of our marriage.

7.  Sex after the wedding was around once or twice a week, and than after some months it declined.

8.  My stubbornness when I lost my job for ex. where I just simply was stupid hanging on to my principles.  Hygienic stuff like unclean underwear.  My wife was ashamed when I was playing guitar wrong way in public when she was present.

9.  We are both leading during periods in our marriage, but my wife was taking more a leader role than me.  I  regret that now, and have realised that was wrong.

10.  We have many things in common and had a good time when we were dating and got together and also in the beginng of our marriage.   We were hanging out a lot, talking, going to events, cooking together.  We share the same faith and followed therefore a same lifestyle.

I think our marriage changed when we were moving into my wife's original country, and close to her parents.  At that point her faith lifestyle became more like her parents' style, and less like our lifestyle living in the Middle East, yet I maintained the same faith lifestyle.

I'll add a few more thoughts in the next post:

Frank_London

Welcome, Justamen.
Thank you for providing all that information.

justamen said:

My wife moved out 6 months ago and filed shortly afterwards for divorce.  Six months after filing, this country approves the divorce process even if the other person disagrees.  That deadline arrives in early February, at which time she is given a maximum of another six months to sign another paper for confirmation.   I feel it is an emergency situation for us. 

Unfortunately, I don't think this can be salvaged.
Your wife moved out six months ago.
That means that the emergency is not happening now, it happened six months ago.
The emergency has already come and gone.

My advice to you is to understand why your marriage failed, learn from it, and move on.

justamen

Recently, I bought her flowers.  She texted me something like, "Save your money, those flowers just went straight into the bin."  I've tried to keep showing my love for her even during the divorce process, but she kept pushing me away.  

Since I've been reading about game here on MMSL, and on the Dalrock site, I've worked on being more assertive, cocky/funny around her, returning to how I normally was before marriage.  For example, saying "hey you sexy wife" instead of "you're beautiful."  I've even shared with her that I've been studying about becoming a more attractive man, but she responds like "Well that's nice for you."  She's thinking, in order to attract another woman; She's not thinking that this will affect her attraction towards me.  She's too far gone.  Her girlfriend told me that my wife said "I think someday God will bring another husband into my life."  This is a shock to me because I thought she agreed with me that marriage is for life.

Since she is being stubborn and going forward with the papers, no matter what I do to stop her, I'm considering having a confrontation with her, saying, "You apparently never intended to fulfill your vows.  You lied to me.  In my eyes and in God's eyes, you'll always be my wife as long as we live, and I'll always take care of my kids no matter where you go.  So, file your divorce papers."  The idea being, I want to maintain my frame, give her a "verbal spank," let her know that her choices and behavior are not acceptable to me, and that if she would do all this anyway against me, it doesn't stop me from being who I am.  If this has some kind of "reverse psychology" effect on her, great - I want her back.  If not - well that's her choice. 

So I'm posting to the forum, to get started and also to see if this is a good strategy or not.  I feel like I've tried everything else, yet I'm new to this whole idea of frame, etc.

Frank_London

justamen said:

I'm considering having a confrontation with her, saying, "You apparently never intended to fulfill your vows.  You lied to me.  In my eyes and in God's eyes, you'll always be my wife as long as we live, and I'll always take care of my kids no matter where you go.  So, file your divorce papers."

  But maybe she didn't lie. Maybe she meant it but changed her mind.

You have a bad case of 'One-itis.' Remember, there are other women out there. She's not the only one.

The divorce has obviously caused you embarrassment. You need to get over that, and let her move on (and let yourself move on). Otherwise you'll both be stuck in this thing forever.

justamen

I am not satisfied with your comment, and its not enough. But thank for your help effort and honesty. I will not just move on. I am a man of faith and will act according to that. I am going to be faithful to her and my covenant before God,?and there is even a chance she will return to me after the state divorce. I neither God does anyway accept any of these state papesr. and she could change her mind again. all is possible in my view. but I am not stupid, and trying to be prepared for all things. what do you guys here think about the plan to tell her the things I mentioned in the last comment ?

JellyBean

I think your plan to give your wife a "verbal spank" as you put it is very unlikely to achieve the results you desire.

Will you please clarify something: "I had from time to time a problem with getting sexual satisfaction through visual source and sexual contact." What does this mean?

justamen

I meant that I had sexual satisfaction from time to time through other visual sources than my wife. why do think the verbal spank doesnt work? Until now all other stragedies have failed.

JellyBean

Do you mean that you were masturbating to porn?

The problem with the "verbal spank" is that it is just words. It is a technique. A line. The problem with your broken marriage isn't your failure to use a verbal technique; it is your failure to be an effective leader. You don't fix this problem by uttering some scripted sentences.

Unfortunately I have to agree with @Frank_London‌ in that I believe your wife is well and truly done with the marriage.

Tennee

"You apparently never intended to fulfill your vows.  You lied to me.  In my eyes and in God's eyes, you'll always be my wife as long as we live, and I'll always take care of my kids no matter where you go.  So, file your divorce papers."

Here's what you're saying:

1)  You're calling her a liar 
2)  You're invoking God as leverage, using faith as an emotive guilt tool
3)  Her actions and opinions don't matter, because "you'll always be my wife"

We discuss here that you cannot logically argue your way into attraction.   I think this is a terrible idea.  If it actually 'worked', it didn't work - you've essentially used emotions and belief systems to as a coercion technique.    I think a statement like this would escalate rather quickly into an argument and/or cessation of conversation -  it sure would if someone threw something like this at me.  

frillyfun

If there is any chance of getting her back it will come through actions, and not words.  I am a certified hypnotist, and believe me when I say there are absolutely no magic words that will bring her back to you.

Stop orbiting her, and doing things like sending her flowers, or calling her sexy.  You have to show her how lonely and miserable she will be after the divorce.   You need her to miss you, and if you keep pouring on the affection she won't ever miss you and want to come back.

Address any hygiene issues, get a good job, and keep it.  Look good, smell good, be a man that she wants to be married to.

She'll either catch on, and come back, or you'll be in good shape to get a new wife.

Definitely read the MMSL Primer- you can download it from Amazon.  It will open your eyes to a lot of things.

aha

frillyfun said:

Stop orbiting her, and doing things like sending her flowers, or calling her sexy.  You have to show her how lonely and miserable she will be after the divorce.   You need her to miss you, and if you keep pouring on the affection she won't ever miss you and want to come back.

Address any hygiene issues, get a good job, and keep it.  Look good, smell good, be a man that she wants to be married to.

She'll either catch on, and come back, or you'll be in good shape to get a new wife.

Bingo.  This is the general advice you're going to get here... because IT WORKS!  Just make sure that it doesn't look like you're doing these things for her or it won't look authentic.  It needs to be for you.  If you can make some immediate positive changes to your appearance, work on your frame, and show some strength/leadership around her she may be curious enough to give this a little more time.  But if not, you're going to be more desirable going forward... so you really have no choice.  

Jek

I apologize, but if my wife got to the point of having "unclean underwear" on her resentment list, I would not be surprised that she left. That is a minimal effort, I wonder how bad it really is.

justamen

@jek. the unclean happened long time ago and didnt happen often. and I got it under control after that. @aha to change my stradegy I stoped already giving her flowers and not showing no affection some time ago. lets see what difference it makes. thanks for all your honest advices.

fordsvt

Sorry to say but I think the window to save this has past. Being Beta with buying flowers and saying I Love You is not going to work. She is not attracted and has filed. Six months is a long time. She is half way to achieving what she wants.

apple

I think it would be helpful in cases like these to be creative and try to think of ways that he could attract his wife again, even from such a fallen position.  It's not impossible for separated couples to get back together.  Here's one example, the couple was separated for one year, and got back together.  Clearly, not the norm, but still:  http://familyshare.com/marriage/how-to-revive-a-desperate-marriage

I know this is kind of a thread resurrect, but currently justamen is dealing with the situation of sharing the 2 children under 5 with his separated wife who now has divorce papers.  He's committed to his kids, to "marriage is for life," and removing bitterness toward his wife from his own heart.  How can a man in his position achieve "attractiveness?"  

There must be a way, somehow.  Any creative ideas from those of you more familiar with the concepts?  

apple

aha said:

frillyfun said:

Stop orbiting her, and doing things like sending her flowers, or calling her sexy.  You have to show her how lonely and miserable she will be after the divorce.   You need her to miss you, and if you keep pouring on the affection she won't ever miss you and want to come back.

Address any hygiene issues, get a good job, and keep it.  Look good, smell good, be a man that she wants to be married to.

She'll either catch on, and come back, or you'll be in good shape to get a new wife.

Bingo.  This is the general advice you're going to get here... because IT WORKS!  Just make sure that it doesn't look like you're doing these things for her or it won't look authentic.  It needs to be for you.  If you can make some immediate positive changes to your appearance, work on your frame, and show some strength/leadership around her she may be curious enough to give this a little more time.  But if not, you're going to be more desirable going forward... so you really have no choice.  

This seems like great advice.