She wants marriage counseling. Yet she has assigned you the task of organizing it.
Dio you even agree that you need it or are you just 'going along with it' because she says so?
If she wants it so bad, why can't she schedule it? It's her idea and her project. All she needs from you is agreement that you'll go along to any appointment that she schedules.
Also - I wonder if counseling is a tactic to try to pull you back into line, using the authority of a third party.
Or it's a chance to take charge of something and get it done.
@gamechanger Reading your introduction I'm left with the impression that you want to end the marriage now before she does later.
That she will leave you later when she is more successful for someone more successful than you.
In away you are trying to protect yourself by predicting the future which is always uncertain.
If I was married to you I would be worried. I would feel that you are not sexually excited by me. In my opinion this came across strongly in your words.
The problem with smart and strong willed is that often it is accompanied by bad sex because smart strong willed people get bored or their intellect gets in the away of sex from over analyzing and controlling things. Intellectuals can be very risk adverse, dry and conservative.
Sex has a strange magic to it because it is not about the "act" but the "actors"
What happens between two people comes out of what each is as an individual. What they bring to the relationship as to "who they are". Sex is an expression of the deepest aspects of a person.
You are limited in what you can do to create good sex if your partner does not already have "Good sex within them" as to what is good "FOR YOU" and it is the same for them in regards to you.
One of the problems with SR measurements is it does not capture the "intrinsic value" of a human being but only those things that can be easily measured because they are superficial.
Money often disappears into bankruptcy and time destroys beauty and intellect.
In my opinion it is not about this superficial "stuff" , but what happens between point A and B as to your being alive now and being dead later.
You are cautious about the future but do not seem to recognize that your life is measured in time without any quarantee to how much you get.
There is an urgency missing in you that is a prerequisite to living life as an adventure and women leave men who cannot give them this adventure occassionally to break up the extreme tediousness, routine,boredom drudgery that everyone feels no matter how rich,smart or beautiful.
If you live a passionate life FOR YOURSELF you will have plenty of companionship. Those who lose everything are those trying to hang onto everything.
Life is temporary and that is why we try to make it permanent but it is in this permanence where that living death is found that everyone than tries to escape from.
Rich,smart and beautiful does not fix these things and often makes them worse. I find rich people extremely dull to be around. Beautiful people are usually vain (insecure masked as arrogance) and intellectuals filled with anxiety or constipated on their own bloated egos.
Why anyone values these things is beyond my understanding.
It is about the "ride" as to what you do with your life and the experiences you have.
You are focusing on failure and trying to keep it away but failure always finds us no matter what and that is probably a good thing because life would be very dull without it.
Protect yourself from the marriage ending as to your assets and if children ever enter into your life, the right to have equal access to them.
It is just my opinion but from your words I would be more concerned that your wife does not excite you than whether or not she will leave you in the future.
Perhaps you long for a wildness that she is not capable of giving you.
Money, Intellect, Education, Beauty, ect... I have been around these things all my life and they do not even come close to the pleasures of deep and lasting friendship, learning for no other reason than the joy of learning and exploring every nook and cranny of this amazing place called Earth.
Be careful not to let becoming a responsible successful adult in everyone elses eyes blind you to what you really need for yourself.
Do not mimic the Alpha you see in others but find it in yourself out of the value you place on your life and the time you are alotted to live it.
In my opinion the essence of Alpha is ownership of self out of the recognition that your life HAS VALUE because it is FINITE and no one else is above or below you. You are unique so it is impossible to measure yourself against anyone else. It is pointless to do so and huge amounts of insecurity is created by doing so.
Be blind to everything other than the value of your life. Follow that value and honor the right for others to value their lives and you will find much happiness even among all the tears and sorrow.
Marriage can leave you feeling very very tired or it can be the most amazing adventure of a life shared but for it to be amazing you cannot sell out your soul for security and the avoidance of failure just to keep someone in your life and bed.
Fear is good but it cannot be made the Boss, only an adviser and a minor one at that.
Bad stuff always happens so at least make the ride worthwhile FOR YOU.
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. ~Andre Gide
"If you love someone, set him free; if you have to stalk him, he probably wasn't yours in the first place."
Or it's a chance to take charge of something and get it done.
Maybe but it sounds like an assigned task to me. Also it's a humiliating task because the counselor request is her way of telling him that she's not happy with him. This is not a joint decision, this is her decision. That he has to act on.
Thank you all for the comments and advice. I am sticking to it and will continue to improve myself. Regarding marriage counseling, she has been requesting for a while. After taking the red pill I just ignored. Will take the lead and find a good counselor but will be careful not to open up too much and review any hesitation or self-doubt.
Good, continue on the path my man. Remember this is a long haul, even more so if you're undoing damage, etc.
Here's a couple of things that might help you - learned from my hard knocks. My W grew up with a domineering Dad and older Bro. She was the 'Little Girl' and treated and dismissed as such sometimes, even though she is anything but. So if I come off domineering, I get mega push-back and she'll fight me to the death over anything. But if I position things with her input, there's no issues.
Example 1: Me: I invited our friends over Saturday night for dinner W: What?!?!?! You didn't ask me and blah blah blah blah...Argument.
Example 2: Me: Let's have buds over. This weekend or next? I don't care what night. Any preference? W: I don't care, you decide
In both examples, I decided something; the second one got input from her. No issues. The manner in which stuff is positioned with her is important. W is smart, independent, beautiful, and passionate - she wants to be valued, not shoved aside. Hell that's why I married her (not just cause she liked to do shots and get naked when we were kids...although that certainly helped) So I involve her, while framing things like above with a decisive and clear direction.
I also cannot come off at all condescending, patronizing, etc. Now, I have a prior history of Giganteous Assholiness with a side of Godzilla, so when I was acting that way, she'd dig in on principle alone - it could have been the placement of salad forks, whatever, and it'd be a Cage Match. Once I remembered that I was once fun, witty, silly, and made people laugh, and put a bullet in the head of the Asshole, she stopped battling me so much. Part of the control battle was really just another front in the larger war on the Asshole. That may not apply to you...
Keep it up man...read, participate here, hone your MAP as your learn and adjust fire...
"Fall down seven times, stand up eight" Japanese Proverb
Or it's a chance to take charge of something and get it done.
Maybe but it sounds like an assigned task to me. Also it's a humiliating task because the counselor request is her way of telling him that she's not happy with him. This is not a joint decision, this is her decision. That he has to act on.
Asking him to schedule a divorce lawyer, is saying that she is not happy with him. Asking him to schedule a counselor is, saying that she still has hope for the marriage. His actions of scheduling will affirm that he has hope also.
You're getting good advice here. I've been with a dumb, strong-willed woman, and I've been with smart, weak-willed women. Smart and strong-willed is an awesome combination. I won't settle for anything else now. But they're like thoroughbreds - they take some real handling. It sounds like you're not sure you're up to the task. That's something only you can determine, but making the effort to be all you can be is like a 24/7 serious fitness program - you hate all the discipline that it takes, but when you get there, you can't believe you ever considered not doing it.
You're getting good advice here. I've been with a dumb, strong-willed woman, and I've been with smart, weak-willed women. Smart and strong-willed is an awesome combination. I won't settle for anything else now. But they're like thoroughbreds - they take some real handling. It sounds like you're not sure you're up to the task. That's something only you can determine, but making the effort to be all you can be is like a 24/7 serious fitness program - you hate all the discipline that it takes, but when you get there, you can't believe you ever considered not doing it.
Ha! When I initially broached this topic (mapping, 'manning up', letting me NOT take the lead sometimes), the analogy I used was that I'm like a Porsche that he refuses to drive fast. I'm built for this, but the driver needs to maintain control of the vehicle.
You're getting good advice here. I've been with a dumb, strong-willed woman, and I've been with smart, weak-willed women. Smart and strong-willed is an awesome combination. I won't settle for anything else now. But they're like thoroughbreds - they take some real handling. It sounds like you're not sure you're up to the task. That's something only you can determine, but making the effort to be all you can be is like a 24/7 serious fitness program - you hate all the discipline that it takes, but when you get there, you can't believe you ever considered not doing it.
Ha! When I initially broached this topic (mapping, 'manning up', letting me NOT take the lead sometimes), the analogy I used was that I'm like a Porsche that he refuses to drive fast. I'm built for this, but the driver needs to maintain control of the vehicle.
Yep. And since I do race cars and bikes, and don't really like either end of a horse, I'm not sure why I chose the thoroughbred analogy instead of yours.
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spartacusSpartacus is everywhereSilver MemberPosts: 178
Or it's a chance to take charge of something and get it done.
Maybe but it sounds like an assigned task to me. Also it's a humiliating task because the counselor request is her way of telling him that she's not happy with him. This is not a joint decision, this is her decision. That he has to act on.
Asking him to schedule a divorce lawyer, is saying that she is not happy with him. Asking him to schedule a counselor is, saying that she still has hope for the marriage. His actions of scheduling will affirm that he has hope also.
One more comment on this...Why didn't you schedule something before she had to ask?
Sound a like a loyalty test IMO, she wants to judge if the OP is serious about change and keeping the relationship. You should shift your perspective from focusing on a stong willed smart wife to focusing on a captain that she would follow... as said above.
I hear you, brother. My first born over achiever extroverted wife has been a handful for our entire marriage. If you haven't done so already, since you referred to yourself as a NG, please read No More Mr. Nice Guy.
Another thing. When dealing with this type of person Never. Ever. tolerate disrespect of any kind, from harsh words to eye rolling to whatever. You must always call her on this if she crosses the line. Do it in frame, without losing it, but firmly.
I know a lot of docs who are married to other docs and I don't know how, or why, they do it. Medical training is extremely stressful; depending on the specialty, it consists of a lot of hazing, one upmanship, harassment, and put downs, with constant self doubt about whether or not you're good enough, or if you're going to make a mistake, and how the hell can you possibly get everything done that you're supposed to? The happiest female docs I know are married to men in non-medical fields, men who can make them forget the stress of medical practice, and help them discover a more enjoyable life. You have to realize that docs essentially gave up a lot of the fun that most people enjoyed in college and in their early 20's in order to compete as an undergrad for a spot in medical school, and then have to endure long hours of post graduate training during the remainder of their 20's while their non-medical peers are earning a lot more money, get home before dark, and have weekends off. As a non-medical spouse, you have the opportunity to be her tour guide to the world of fun and pleasure, and she will be eternally grateful. Also, high performance individuals crave words of affirmation-she will love you for it.
Kudos to you for agreeing to counseling. I personally regard the refusal by a spouse of the other spouse's request for counseling as a critical moment of neglect. Many of the D-Day stories that appear on MMSL contain the statement by the BS that "They (the wayward spouse)" asked (before the affair) to go to a marriage counselor but I didn't see any point in it."
Yep. And since I do race cars and bikes, and don't really like either end of a horse, I'm not sure why I chose the thoroughbred analogy instead of yours.
@philosophicentrepren, That's weird cuz I ride but don't drive. We definitely need to switch analogies, lol.
If his wife is asking for MC as a result of his recent changes, then the "problem" she wants to solve is that he has a working MAP and she wants to kill it off and regain control.
If his wife has been asking for MC for a long time, then that's another thing.
Both possibilities are quite likely, but only one can be the case. Either way, let's be clear about the timeline, before we attribute meaning.
I'm not talking about assumptions, I'm talking about reasonable conclusions from what we have in front of us. His entire description of her is fraught with textbook Type-A control-freak personality details. I don't get the 'love and compassion' vibe from his descriptions of her.
But, hey, someone's got to be wrong, and there's an easy and completely benign way to find out -- ask her what her motivation is to go to MC. What's the specific issue she wants to address? And, the overt purpose of the question is so he can pick the right counsellor. If she wants to talk about his recent changes versus talking about general communication issues, or work stress bleeding over into the marriage, or domestic chore division of labor, etc. then either way, he'll know where he stands before going into the session.
He will want to know anyway, in order to make the session more fruitful.
The only hint we have is that we were told that his wife feels like he is shutting her out with all his mapping. It seems to me that this, if true, would kind of defeat the purpose. Is he avoiding her, or trying to punish her, or using this as "pursuing other interests?" If she's asking for more connection, I would suggest that it would be wise not to allow mapping to interfere with that.
Many years ago, my wife sat me down and told me, humbly and with considerable vulnerability, that she needed more out of our marriage. I essentially blew her off, and now, 25 years later, I regard that as the worst mistake of my life, a critical moment of neglect with unforeseen consequences..
If his wife is asking for
MC as a result of his recent changes, then the "problem" she wants to
solve is that he has a working MAP and she wants to kill it off and
regain control.
If his wife has been asking for MC for a long time, then that's another thing.
Both
possibilities are quite likely, but only one can be the case. Either
way, let's be clear about the timeline, before we attribute meaning.
When she came back she said I was totally excluding her from my life and and said she was worried and was not secure in the marriage because I had totally checked out...
...
she will bring back the topic that I have changed and that I am totally different and that she does not recognize me and that she misses the old me.
...
She has said that a year ago she would be comfortable having a kid with me but currently she's not sure.
...
She also says I "attack" her sexually with no love, and grab her butt and boobs out of the blue and she does not like.
My response to her is that I have decided to take care of myself for the good of the marriage. She keeps pulling and pulling for answers while I try to be discreet and not share much about the map and all the reasons that I have learned which caused our situation.
@Frank_London I heard 2 outta 4 above (Changed and Drivebys) repeatedly in early MAP. Throw in 'No Sex Until Old You Is Back' and 'What Kind of Crap Are You Reading' and you've got what I heard for a coupla months.
I repeatedly stated I'm changing, I'm going to be a better man, etc. There was no going back. There were numerous exchanges, some heated (and a few dropped with some Dread, like 'You know where the door is' and 'the only one not having sex around here will be you' that were probably not so smart in retrospect). I concealed this place, the MAP, all of it and simply shut down any convo on how the sausage was being made. BTW - at 16 months in, I don't here this stuff anymore.
A lot of OPs comments sound very familiar to me, and ring of standard MAP blow-back and control battle. My W is likely very much like OPs W. I'm with @generalzod and others, I'd like some additional context here so we can discern whether this is 'standard issue' responses or something signaling more, like a CMN.
"Fall down seven times, stand up eight" Japanese Proverb
Here is the timeline of events and some context to the MC request. Married 4 years and we got to the point where I was so confused not knowing why I didn't feel loved/admired/sexed. Early 2014 I voiced my insatisfaction to wife: I said that I felt she was not putting the effort that our marriage deserved and did not want that. Leading up to that point, I felt she stopped being vested in the marriage, stopped caring for the home and our future, and that our sex life was sub-par. Something was off. She was upset that I thought she was the problem and said we needed to connect more, date night, kiss more, etc. I think she mentioned MC at that point but I am not certain. We agreed we would put more into our relationship. Then another six months passes, we did date more but nothing really changed. We were like friends who treated each other very nice but no real improvement. Our fifth year anniversary in July 2014 was not great. Next day she goes away for two weeks to attend a friends weeding (scheduled). One day after she leaves, I started researching online and found a Youtube video where a wife says she was no longer attracted to a husband because he did not take action and did not lead. From there I found the manosphere, game, and the red pill. At that point, July 25, 2014 I was changed. I saw all the mistakes I made, and everything became clear. She was NOT to blame. All her changes were natural. She was not attracted to beta me. Bitter pill, but enlightning. First thing I did was to stop whining and DLV. I was very concerned that attraction could never be rebuilt and have to admit that I was angry. I needed to value myself. I stopped pedestalling her. I went out with friends, made new friends, and became less available, less of an orbiter. When she called during the two weeks, I happened to be out and about often, having fun. When she came back she was upset that I had not given her attention while she was away and I said I was working on myself-gym, hobbies, friends and that these were all good things. I probably did not leave any Beta there which made her uncomfortable. She was home for two weeks then went away again for a 2 month rotation (also scheduled). At this point (Sep 2014), we were in a place where she had lost some trust. Imagine how I felt knowing that my wife was 2000 miles away and I could not work on us. That's when I discovered MMSL and read the primer. That gave me a lot of hope and I decided to change by eliminating all my mistakes. I made a surprise weekend trip to Seattle and I acted alpha. We had a great time and the sex was great. Then she came back and I continued working on my MAP, awareness at 100%. We became closer and things improved some in Nov and Dec. We had a great two week trip during the holidays and here we are now. Last week I felt she tried to boss me around by asking me to take out the recycle and I responded in a rude way that if I had time I would. It escalated to a fight about chores and I voiced she should do more because she has more free time and I felt she was still not prioritizing us and our home. We had an argument and she mentioned that we were still not out of the woods. That I had changed dramatically and she had not rebuilt trust in me completely. She asked for MC again. I believe she feels that something is wrong but she does not know what it is. She thinks and says is the lack of trust (Hamster?). I am not sure. My time mapping has been short and I have a long way to go. MC is scheduled for Feb 7. I think it will be blue pill all the way, but I will make the best out of it. I will speak less and listen more. Suggestions on how to frame are welcome.
Comments
That she will leave you later when she is more successful for someone more successful than you.
In away you are trying to protect yourself by predicting the future which is always uncertain.
If I was married to you I would be worried. I would feel that you are not sexually excited by me. In my opinion this came across strongly in your words.
The problem with smart and strong willed is that often it is accompanied by bad sex because smart strong willed people get bored or their intellect gets in the away of sex from over analyzing and controlling things. Intellectuals can be very risk adverse, dry and conservative.
Sex has a strange magic to it because it is not about the "act" but the "actors"
What happens between two people comes out of what each is as an individual. What they bring to the relationship as to "who they are". Sex is an expression of the deepest aspects of a person.
You are limited in what you can do to create good sex if your partner does not already have "Good sex within them" as to what is good "FOR YOU" and it is the same for them in regards to you.
One of the problems with SR measurements is it does not capture the "intrinsic value"
of a human being but only those things that can be easily measured because they are superficial.
Money often disappears into bankruptcy and time destroys beauty and intellect.
In my opinion it is not about this superficial "stuff" , but what happens between point A and B as to your being alive now and being dead later.
You are cautious about the future but do not seem to recognize that your life is measured in time without any quarantee to how much you get.
There is an urgency missing in you that is a prerequisite to living life as an adventure and women leave men who cannot give them this adventure occassionally to break up the extreme tediousness, routine,boredom drudgery that everyone feels no matter how rich,smart or beautiful.
If you live a passionate life FOR YOURSELF you will have plenty of companionship. Those who lose everything are those trying to hang onto everything.
Life is temporary and that is why we try to make it permanent but it is in this permanence where that living death is found that everyone than tries to escape from.
Rich,smart and beautiful does not fix these things and often makes them worse. I find rich people extremely dull to be around. Beautiful people are usually vain (insecure masked as arrogance) and intellectuals filled with anxiety or constipated on their own bloated egos.
Why anyone values these things is beyond my understanding.
It is about the "ride" as to what you do with your life and the experiences you have.
You are focusing on failure and trying to keep it away but failure always finds us no matter what and that is probably a good thing because life would be very dull without it.
Protect yourself from the marriage ending as to your assets and if children ever enter into your life, the right to have equal access to them.
It is just my opinion but from your words I would be more concerned that your wife does not excite you than whether or not she will leave you in the future.
Perhaps you long for a wildness that she is not capable of giving you.
Money, Intellect, Education, Beauty, ect... I have been around these things all my life and they do not even come close to the pleasures of deep and lasting friendship, learning for no other reason than the joy of learning and exploring every nook and cranny of this amazing place called Earth.
Be careful not to let becoming a responsible successful adult in everyone elses eyes blind you to what you really need for yourself.
Do not mimic the Alpha you see in others but find it in yourself out of the value you place on your life and the time you are alotted to live it.
In my opinion the essence of Alpha is ownership of self out of the recognition that your life HAS VALUE because it is FINITE and no one else is above or below you. You are unique so it is impossible to measure yourself against anyone else. It is pointless to do so and huge amounts of insecurity is created by doing so.
Be blind to everything other than the value of your life. Follow that value and honor the right for others to value their lives and you will find much happiness even among all the tears and sorrow.
Marriage can leave you feeling very very tired or it can be the most amazing adventure of a life shared but for it to be amazing you cannot sell out your soul for security and the avoidance of failure just to keep someone in your life and bed.
Fear is good but it cannot be made the Boss, only an adviser and a minor one at that.
Bad stuff always happens so at least make the ride worthwhile FOR YOU.
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it. ~Andre Gide
"If you love someone, set him free; if you have to stalk him, he probably wasn't yours in the first place."
Also it's a humiliating task because the counselor request is her way of telling him that she's not happy with him. This is not a joint decision, this is her decision. That he has to act on.
Here's a couple of things that might help you - learned from my hard knocks. My W grew up with a domineering Dad and older Bro. She was the 'Little Girl' and treated and dismissed as such sometimes, even though she is anything but. So if I come off domineering, I get mega push-back and she'll fight me to the death over anything. But if I position things with her input, there's no issues.
Example 1:
Me: I invited our friends over Saturday night for dinner
W: What?!?!?! You didn't ask me and blah blah blah blah...Argument.
Example 2:
Me: Let's have buds over. This weekend or next? I don't care what night. Any preference?
W: I don't care, you decide
In both examples, I decided something; the second one got input from her. No issues.
The manner in which stuff is positioned with her is important. W is smart, independent, beautiful, and passionate - she wants to be valued, not shoved aside. Hell that's why I married her (not just cause she liked to do shots and get naked when we were kids...although that certainly helped) So I involve her, while framing things like above with a decisive and clear direction.
I also cannot come off at all condescending, patronizing, etc. Now, I have a prior history of Giganteous Assholiness with a side of Godzilla, so when I was acting that way, she'd dig in on principle alone - it could have been the placement of salad forks, whatever, and it'd be a Cage Match. Once I remembered that I was once fun, witty, silly, and made people laugh, and put a bullet in the head of the Asshole, she stopped battling me so much. Part of the control battle was really just another front in the larger war on the Asshole. That may not apply to you...
Keep it up man...read, participate here, hone your MAP as your learn and adjust fire...
How will you live well today?
I mean, if you are a captain, what kind of FO do you want, if not a smart strong-willed one? I would not have it any other way.
Sound a like a loyalty test IMO, she wants to judge if the OP is serious about change and keeping the relationship. You should shift your perspective from focusing on a stong willed smart wife to focusing on a captain that she would follow... as said above.
Another thing. When dealing with this type of person Never. Ever. tolerate disrespect of any kind, from harsh words to eye rolling to whatever. You must always call her on this if she crosses the line. Do it in frame, without losing it, but firmly.
I know a lot of docs who are married to other docs and I don't know how, or why, they do it. Medical training is extremely stressful; depending on the specialty, it consists of a lot of hazing, one upmanship, harassment, and put downs, with constant self doubt about whether or not you're good enough, or if you're going to make a mistake, and how the hell can you possibly get everything done that you're supposed to? The happiest female docs I know are married to men in non-medical fields, men who can make them forget the stress of medical practice, and help them discover a more enjoyable life. You have to realize that docs essentially gave up a lot of the fun that most people enjoyed in college and in their early 20's in order to compete as an undergrad for a spot in medical school, and then have to endure long hours of post graduate training during the remainder of their 20's while their non-medical peers are earning a lot more money, get home before dark, and have weekends off. As a non-medical spouse, you have the opportunity to be her tour guide to the world of fun and pleasure, and she will be eternally grateful. Also, high performance individuals crave words of affirmation-she will love you for it.
Kudos to you for agreeing to counseling. I personally regard the refusal by a spouse of the other spouse's request for counseling as a critical moment of neglect. Many of the D-Day stories that appear on MMSL contain the statement by the BS that "They (the wayward spouse)" asked (before the affair) to go to a marriage counselor but I didn't see any point in it."
If his wife is asking for MC as a result of his recent changes, then the "problem" she wants to solve is that he has a working MAP and she wants to kill it off and regain control.
If his wife has been asking for MC for a long time, then that's another thing.
Both possibilities are quite likely, but only one can be the case. Either way, let's be clear about the timeline, before we attribute meaning.
But, hey, someone's got to be wrong, and there's an easy and completely benign way to find out -- ask her what her motivation is to go to MC. What's the specific issue she wants to address? And, the overt purpose of the question is so he can pick the right counsellor. If she wants to talk about his recent changes versus talking about general communication issues, or work stress bleeding over into the marriage, or domestic chore division of labor, etc. then either way, he'll know where he stands before going into the session.
He will want to know anyway, in order to make the session more fruitful.
Many years ago, my wife sat me down and told me, humbly and with considerable vulnerability, that she needed more out of our marriage. I essentially blew her off, and now, 25 years later, I regard that as the worst mistake of my life, a critical moment of neglect with unforeseen consequences..
You've articulated the possibilities very well.
That's a great solution: find out why she wants to attend.
and she wants to know what's caused this change:
I repeatedly stated I'm changing, I'm going to be a better man, etc. There was no going back. There were numerous exchanges, some heated (and a few dropped with some Dread, like 'You know where the door is' and 'the only one not having sex around here will be you' that were probably not so smart in retrospect). I concealed this place, the MAP, all of it and simply shut down any convo on how the sausage was being made. BTW - at 16 months in, I don't here this stuff anymore.
A lot of OPs comments sound very familiar to me, and ring of standard MAP blow-back and control battle. My W is likely very much like OPs W. I'm with @generalzod and others, I'd like some additional context here so we can discern whether this is 'standard issue' responses or something signaling more, like a CMN.
How will you live well today?