Married to a smart, strong willed wife.

2

Comments

  • KattKatt USASilver Member Posts: 4,554
    Angeline said:
    She has asked me to schedule marriage counseling. 
    She wants marriage counseling. Yet she has assigned you the task of organizing it.

    Dio you even agree that you need it or are you just 'going along with it' because she says so?

    If she wants it so bad, why can't she schedule it? It's her idea and her project. All she needs from you is agreement that you'll go along to any appointment that she schedules.

    Also - I wonder if counseling is a tactic to try to pull you back into line, using the authority of a third party.

    Or it's a chance to take charge of something and get it done.
    That was EXACTLY my read on it as well.  
    Persephone[Deleted User]
  • Frank_LondonFrank_London in transitSilver Member Posts: 1,853
    edited January 2015
    Angeline said:

    Or it's a chance to take charge of something and get it done.
    Maybe but it sounds like an assigned task to me.
    Also it's a humiliating task because the counselor request is her way of telling him that she's not happy with him. This is not a joint decision, this is her decision. That he has to act on.
    Tennee
  • gamechangergamechanger USASilver Member Posts: 10
    Thank you all for the comments and advice. I am sticking to it and will continue to improve myself. Regarding marriage counseling, she has been requesting for a while. After taking the red pill I just ignored. Will take the lead and find a good counselor but will be careful not to open up too much and review any hesitation or self-doubt. 
    Tennee[Deleted User]
  • JekJek CaliforniaMember Posts: 1,520
    Angeline said:

    Or it's a chance to take charge of something and get it done.
    Maybe but it sounds like an assigned task to me.
    Also it's a humiliating task because the counselor request is her way of telling him that she's not happy with him. This is not a joint decision, this is her decision. That he has to act on.
    Asking him to schedule a divorce lawyer, is saying that she is not happy with him. Asking him to schedule a counselor is, saying that she still has hope for the marriage. His actions of scheduling will affirm that he has hope also.  
    [Deleted User]Angeline
  • PhilosophicEntreprenPhilosophicEntrepren Fort WorthSilver Member Posts: 144
    edited January 2015
    You're getting good advice here. I've been with a dumb, strong-willed woman, and I've been with smart, weak-willed women. Smart and strong-willed is an awesome combination. I won't settle for anything else now. But they're like thoroughbreds - they take some real handling. It sounds like you're not sure you're up to the task. That's something only you can determine, but making the effort to be all you can be is like a 24/7 serious fitness program - you hate all the discipline that it takes, but when you get there, you can't believe you ever considered not doing it.
    jonKattPen_and_SwordIrishGypsy
  • PhilosophicEntreprenPhilosophicEntrepren Fort WorthSilver Member Posts: 144
    You're getting good advice here. I've been with a dumb, strong-willed woman, and I've been with smart, weak-willed women. Smart and strong-willed is an awesome combination. I won't settle for anything else now. But they're like thoroughbreds - they take some real handling. It sounds like you're not sure you're up to the task. That's something only you can determine, but making the effort to be all you can be is like a 24/7 serious fitness program - you hate all the discipline that it takes, but when you get there, you can't believe you ever considered not doing it.
    Ha! When I initially broached this topic (mapping, 'manning up', letting me NOT take the lead sometimes), the analogy I used was that I'm like a Porsche that he refuses to drive fast. I'm built for this, but the driver needs to maintain control of the vehicle.
    Yep. And since I do race cars and bikes, and don't really like either end of a horse, I'm not sure why I chose the thoroughbred analogy instead of yours. :)
    [Deleted User]PersephoneAngeline
  • spartacusspartacus Spartacus is everywhereSilver Member Posts: 178
    Jek said:
    Angeline said:

    Or it's a chance to take charge of something and get it done.
    Maybe but it sounds like an assigned task to me.
    Also it's a humiliating task because the counselor request is her way of telling him that she's not happy with him. This is not a joint decision, this is her decision. That he has to act on.
    Asking him to schedule a divorce lawyer, is saying that she is not happy with him. Asking him to schedule a counselor is, saying that she still has hope for the marriage. His actions of scheduling will affirm that he has hope also.  
    One more comment on this...Why didn't you schedule something before she had to ask?

    Sound a like a loyalty test IMO, she wants to judge if the OP is serious about change and keeping the relationship.  You should shift your perspective from focusing on a stong willed smart wife to focusing on a captain that she would follow... as said above.  
    Angeline
  • PersephonePersephone Northeast USSilver Member Posts: 565

    Yep. And since I do race cars and bikes, and don't really like either end of a horse, I'm not sure why I chose the thoroughbred analogy instead of yours. :)
    @philosophicentrepren, That's weird cuz I ride but don't drive. We definitely need to switch analogies, lol.
    [Deleted User][Deleted User]
  • Husband3point0Husband3point0 Gold Men Posts: 3,294
    Could we get a better timeline? 

    If his wife is asking for MC as a result of his recent changes, then the "problem" she wants to solve is that he has a working MAP and she wants to kill it off and regain control. 

    If his wife has been asking for MC for a long time, then that's another thing. 

    Both possibilities are quite likely, but only one can be the case. Either way, let's be clear about the timeline, before we attribute meaning. 
    Tennee[Deleted User]Frank_Londonthemacnut
  • Husband3point0Husband3point0 Gold Men Posts: 3,294
    I'm not talking about assumptions, I'm talking about reasonable conclusions from what we have in front of us. His entire description of her is fraught with textbook Type-A control-freak personality details. I don't get the 'love and compassion' vibe from his descriptions of her. 

    But, hey, someone's got to be wrong, and there's an easy and completely benign way to find out -- ask her what her motivation is to go to MC. What's the specific issue she wants to address?  And, the overt purpose of the question is so he can pick the right counsellor. If she wants to talk about his recent changes versus talking about general communication issues, or work stress bleeding over into the marriage, or domestic chore division of labor, etc. then either way, he'll know where he stands before going into the session. 

    He will want to know anyway, in order to make the session more fruitful. 
  • no_chumpno_chump MidwestGold Men Posts: 68
    edited January 2015
    The only hint we have is that we were told that his wife feels like he is shutting her out with all his mapping. It seems to me that this, if true, would kind of defeat the purpose. Is he avoiding her, or trying to punish her, or using this as "pursuing other interests?" If she's asking for more connection, I would suggest that it would be wise not to allow mapping to interfere with that.

    Many years ago, my wife sat me down and told me, humbly and with considerable vulnerability, that she needed more out of our marriage. I essentially blew her off, and now, 25 years later, I regard that as the worst mistake of my life, a critical moment of neglect with unforeseen consequences..
    [Deleted User]WideAwakeokmike
  • Frank_LondonFrank_London in transitSilver Member Posts: 1,853
    edited January 2015

    Could we get a better timeline? 

    If his wife is asking for MC as a result of his recent changes, then the "problem" she wants to solve is that he has a working MAP and she wants to kill it off and regain control. 

    If his wife has been asking for MC for a long time, then that's another thing. 

    Both possibilities are quite likely, but only one can be the case. Either way, let's be clear about the timeline, before we attribute meaning. 
    You've articulated the possibilities very well.
     there's an easy and completely benign way to find out -- ask her what her motivation is to go to MC. What's the specific issue she wants to address? 
    That's a great solution: find out why she wants to attend.
    Angeline
  • Frank_LondonFrank_London in transitSilver Member Posts: 1,853
    some of the times @gamechanger's wife has expressed unhappiness with the new @gamechanger:
    When she came back she said I was totally excluding her from my life and and said she was worried and was not secure in the marriage because I had totally checked out...
    ...
    she will bring back the topic that I have changed and that I am totally different and that she does not recognize me and that she misses the old me.
    ...
    She has said that a year ago she would be comfortable having a kid with me but currently she's not sure.
    ...
    She also says I "attack" her sexually with no love, and grab her butt and boobs out of the blue and she does not like.
    and she wants to know what's caused this change:
    My response to her is that I have decided to take care of myself for the good of the marriage. She keeps pulling and pulling for answers while I try to be discreet and not share much about the map and all the reasons that I have learned which caused our situation.
    TenneeHusband3point0
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963
    @Frank_London‌ I heard 2 outta 4 above (Changed and Drivebys) repeatedly in early MAP.  Throw in 'No Sex Until Old You Is Back' and 'What Kind of Crap Are You Reading' and you've got what I heard for a coupla months.  

    I repeatedly stated I'm changing, I'm going to be a better man, etc.  There was no going back.  There were numerous exchanges, some heated (and a few dropped with some Dread, like 'You know where the door is' and 'the only one not having sex around here will be you' that were probably not so smart in retrospect).  I concealed this place, the MAP, all of it and simply shut down any convo on how the sausage was being made.  BTW - at 16 months in, I don't here this stuff anymore.   

    A lot of OPs comments sound very familiar to me, and ring of standard MAP blow-back and control battle.  My W is likely very much like OPs W.  I'm with @generalzod‌ and others, I'd like some additional context here so we can discern whether this is 'standard issue' responses or something signaling more, like a CMN.  
    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
    [Deleted User]Angeline[Deleted User]
  • gamechangergamechanger USASilver Member Posts: 10
    Here is the timeline of events and some context to the MC request. Married 4 years and we got to the point where I was so confused not knowing why I didn't feel loved/admired/sexed. Early 2014 I voiced my insatisfaction to wife: I said that I felt she was not putting the effort that our marriage deserved and did not want that. Leading up to that point, I felt she stopped being vested in the marriage, stopped caring for the home and our future, and that our sex life was sub-par. Something was off. She was upset that I thought she was the problem and said we needed to connect more, date night, kiss more, etc. I think she mentioned MC at that point but I am not certain. We agreed we would put more into our relationship. Then another six months passes, we did date more but nothing really changed. We were like friends who treated each other very nice but no real improvement. Our fifth year anniversary in July 2014 was not great. Next day she goes away for two weeks to attend a friends weeding (scheduled). One day after she leaves, I started researching online and found a Youtube video where a wife says she was no longer attracted to a husband because he did not take action and did not lead. From there I found the manosphere, game, and the red pill. At that point, July 25, 2014 I was changed. I saw all the mistakes I made, and everything became clear. She was NOT to blame. All her changes were natural. She was not attracted to beta me. Bitter pill, but enlightning.  First thing I did was to stop whining and DLV. I was very concerned that attraction could never be rebuilt and have to admit that I was angry.  I needed to value myself. I stopped pedestalling her.  I went out with friends, made new friends, and became less available, less of an orbiter. When she called during the two weeks, I happened to be out and about often, having fun. When she came back she was upset that I had not given her attention while she was away and I said I was working on myself-gym, hobbies, friends and that these were all good things. I probably did not leave any Beta there which made her uncomfortable. She was home for two weeks then went away again for a 2 month rotation (also scheduled). At this point (Sep 2014), we were in a place where she had lost some trust. Imagine how I felt knowing that my wife was 2000 miles away and I could not work on us. That's when I discovered MMSL and read the primer. That gave me a lot of hope and I decided to change by eliminating all my mistakes. I made a surprise weekend trip to Seattle and I acted alpha. We had a great time and the sex was great. Then she came back and I continued working on my MAP, awareness at 100%. We became closer and things improved some in Nov and Dec. We had a great two week trip during the holidays and here we are now. Last week I felt she tried to boss me around by asking me to take out the recycle and I responded in a rude way that if I had time I would. It escalated to a fight about chores and I voiced she should do more because she has more free time and I felt she was still not prioritizing us and our home. We had an argument and she mentioned that we were still not out of the woods. That I had changed dramatically and she had not rebuilt trust in me completely. She asked for MC again. I believe she feels that something is wrong but she does not know what it is. She thinks and says is the lack of trust (Hamster?). I am not sure. My time mapping has been short and I have a long way to go. MC is scheduled for Feb 7. I think it will be blue pill all the way, but I will make the best out of it. I will speak less and listen more. Suggestions on how to frame are welcome.
    TenneeAngeline[Deleted User]
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