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Wife, Married 14 Years, Triage Time
sl3625
TexasMember Posts: 6
I don't know what I should do...buy Athol's book and download it to his Kindle? Shake the book in his face? I may be desperate, but I don't think acting desperate is going to work.
Question One – Basic Questions
I am 43, he is almost 42. We got married in 2001 after being together for a year and a half. We got engaged quickly, after six months. No children, by choice. Physically, we're very similar. I'm 5'4" and 128, he's about 5'8" and 140. When we met and got married, I was about 45 pounds heavier. He has the physique you'd expect from a distance runner (he ran in high school, but didn't pick it up again until five years ago when we both started up), and I've always been attracted to guys who are on the thinner, less muscular side. He does have some traits some folks might find effeminate. I'm much more attractive than I was 15 years ago, in my opinion. Hair's better, the weight is off (lost 25 pounds in 2003 and the rest 2 1/2 years ago), and I don't dress 15 years older than I actually am. Personality-wise I've always been more "male" than "female" in how I look at and approach things (which is fun, since I still have girl hormones to deal with), and I definitely "take charge" of most things in our relationship...generally because my husband won't.
We're both avid runners now...running anywhere between 20-35 miles a week, depending on what we're training for. I love running, as does my husband. I think when it comes to diet and exercise, we're doing pretty well and taking care of ourselves.
Question Two – Rule Out Medical
No medical issues now. I was on the pill when we were first together, and when we thought that was the cause of my lack of desire, I went off it. Since we didn't want to have kids, my husband had a vasectomy. That was in 2004. So, I've been running on my own hormones with their various ups and downs for some time. I track my cycles, so I know exactly where I am at any point in time. I'm not depressed, and my labs all look fine. I don't think my husband is depressed and as far as he's told me, his blood work is also normal.
Question Three – Rule Out Structural Attraction Issues
Zero structural attraction issues. My husband makes $160k a year, and I'm a housewife. When we first got married our salaries were about equal, and he's done a great job of increasing his income over his career. I quit my high-paying job six years ago when I felt like the issues I was having in that job were taking their toll on both me and our marriage. I finished my MBA a few months later and will be honest, I'm happier and feel like I make a bigger impact here at home than I ever did in the working world. We have plenty of money to pay our bills and have healthy savings and retirement accounts. We aren't overweight. We live in a safe, suburban neighborhood. We live ridiculously below our means, and travel a few times a year. I enjoyed handing the "breadwinner" duties over to my husband and, anti-feminist as it sounds, I like being a housewife. I like having some definition to our relationship. The lines aren't as blurry for me...I do what needs to be done around the house during the day so we can play and have fun in the evenings and on weekends. Or rather, that was the plan.
My husband has a tendency to wuss out during times of stress, and I end up picking up the slack. I've been in the hospital a couple of times, and he passes out when they're performing procedures on me. Our elderly dog (who we ended up putting to sleep) last month had a seizure and I had to pull it together to get him dressed, my dog safe, and all of us driven to the emergency vet. When I need him to lead, he can't seem to do it. While there are intermittent times when I wish he'd "man up" more, I still find him overall sexy and attractive.
Question Four – Rule Out Critical Moments and Neglect
My husband and I love each other very much, but I will admit I went through a phase when I just flat-out had no sexual desire or interest and had "obligatory" sex which resulted in a lot of hurt feelings on my husband's part. This was probably 3-4 years into our marriage. I nearly went insane trying to figure out what was wrong. I read books, listened to tapes, watched webinars...we even went to counseling. Once we told the guy that the only "real" problem in our relationship (as far as we could tell, but he was supposed to be the expert) he snapped, "Well what do you want me to tell you? To just go home and screw six times a week?!?" That was the end of counseling.
Things did get better (for me) once I went off the pill, and for a few months we were having sex like rabbits. It was great. Then, once my hormones settled down everything went back to the obligatory 1-2 times a month. For the next few years, we chalked our lack of sex up to availability (he ended up going to Iraq for a year then when he returned, his work travel schedule got pretty heavy) but for the last year he hasn't been traveling at all and is actually working primarily from home now (job change). No increase in sexual activity. He also likes to blame our race training, but his interest in sex is the same whether we're running 15 or 35 miles a week.
Two years ago while we were in Hawaii for our anniversary, he told me he was going to make it a priority to initiate sex with me at least two nights a week. I was thrilled! We had sex once that trip, and he did nothing the next week, or the next week.
For Valentine's Day this year, I bought a sexy nightie and after half a bottle of champagne we had some pretty spectacular (well, for us anyway) sex. The next day we were out walking the dog and I asked him if he wanted to take a pass on our usual Sunday sex (since we'd just done it the day before) or go another round. I wanted him to tell me he wanted to have sex with me again. His response? "Well, yesterday was pretty great, so we can just skip today." I've been sitting on that for the last two days, and that was the catalyst for coming here. The final straw, so to speak.
Whenever I bring this up and try to be as direct and non-chick as possible, he'll start to cry and say he's sorry and then will (a) bring up all the times I turned him down A DECADE AGO, (b) say I tell him too much about my cycles and when I'm either revved up or not revved up and that turns him off and (c) promise he'll try harder. I tell him I need him to be more assertive with me sexually. Believe me, he knows what I need.
And yeah, electronic devices aren't helping. I'll put my iPad away and come out and ask my husband to do the same, and he'll get annoyed and say he's "just checking email" or "just reading the news". How about just putting it away because I've asked nicely so we can talk?
On to part two...
Comments
Welcome to the Forum!
sad to read your tale as it is so familiar (with the genders reversed) to many of the guys here
does your husband have a man in his life that he respects, maybe even looks up to? ... if so, you might consider buying the primer and having this man give it to your husband and advising your husband that he should consider the book a "clue by four" wakeup call to the head because your husband is at risk of losing his wife
if not, you might need to get to a point where YOU give him the primer (i recommend that you do *not* read it first) and tell him that he needs to read it and begin to live it
folks are gonna tell you that he needs to be evaluated for Low Testosterone and i won't contradict them ...
ultimately, you will need to figure out what you are willing to put up with if he doesnt change ... reading the MAP book will be good for you - maybe even some coaching ... but i think you will have to entertain the reality that to get what you want you will need to severely disrupt what you have ...
imo, time to freshen up your resume ... you need to become self-sufficient economically
you are educated, articulate, fit, excellent girl game and have no kids ... you have options
best of luck
eta: continue to live with extreme attention to your personal integrity - do not isolate yourself with men you find attractive ... do not encourage flirtatious conversation ...do not engage in emotional attachment to other men with intimate life detail sharing, etc ...
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Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
Your husband does sound low-T ... calling @Serenity, our Low-T woman of wisdom.
Is he Alpha at work?
Also, you are a full time housewife with no kids ... what do you do all day? Do you have an all-consuming hobby/write novels/do lots of volunteer work? You may not need to be earning money, but you need to be doing something productive. Running a modern household, without kids, takes only a couple of hours a day ... you need something interesting to fill the rest of the day.
You should also get a copy of Mindful Attraction Plan and see where you can improve.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
@SignorePillolaRossa - I don't think my husband has anyone he looks up to that I would feel comfortable bringing into this situation. I may take your suggestion of giving him the Primer myself, although if past behavior is an indicator of future behavior...he won't read it. I've handed off books to him before and he hasn't really done anything with them. He's going in for his annual physical soon, I'll mention low T. I suspect the idea will spook him though, as he doesn't want to turn into an Alpha Asshole with too much testosterone. I know that for a fact.
@HildaCorners - He is more Alpha at work than home, definitely. He runs multi-million dollar projects with dozens of people working for him at any given time. I love what he's done with his career and it makes me proud. Is my behavior at home maybe pushing him to be less Alpha? Probably. Someone has to be in charge and if no one else is willing, I'll step up. I've scaled back my Alpha-ness and tried to give him more leadership opportunities and haven't seen much in the way of change. Believe me, I do respond positively when I see behavior I'd like him to repeat!
In terms of what I do all day, let's just say my day is kept busy. I don't really need to justify how I spend my time. The only reason I even mentioned being a housewife is that I don't currently bring any money in, so there is no "conflict" between us on who makes more money, blahblah. The problem is the same now as it was when I worked outside of the home, except I'm not yelling at my husband all the time now like I was doing then.
@generalzod - I suspect it's because my estrogen was really tempered on the pill (I was also tired and cranky all the time), and once I was running on all cylinders again...my estrogen went a little crazy (it was kind of like being 16 again) and then mellowed out. I'm 43 now, so I'm feeling some changes hormone-wise but I still get pretty randy.
i'll leave you to the advice of other women who deal with lazy bear husbands and wish you the best of luck in turning it around ... there are success stories here and i hope you become one of them
you sound awesome and i hope you find the awesome life you deserve
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Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
I feel terrible reading everything I've written so far. He's not a bad guy. He's my best friend and we have so much fun together, even after many years. I don't just love him, I like him. He feels the same about me. I'm just so confused.
him: "you're so hot and sexy"
you: "i want you to show me with your actions, not tell me with your words"
don't feel bad about writing out your thoughts and feelings ... we all have to do that to face our reality and get a solid reality-based plan for improvement .... you have what has been called an "AAAAF spouse" - many of us have them ... they get an A grade in every category of marital life except sexual partner where they fail
we all have a different path to turning it around ... but it starts with being the best person we can be and finding ways to inspire our spouse to improve ... if they can, we all win .... if they don't, we decide to give them an ultimatum to put meaningful action into place to improve or face divorce so we can be free to find a partner that will build a completely fulfilling life with us
it might be the case that you, like me and many others here, chose a spouse that really wasnt the best possible fit for us ... but we live with integrity and see what we can improve within ourselves and then see what happens
the 'stay' plan is the same as the 'go' plan ... get awesome and lead the spouse to improve if they choose to ...
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Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
Usually when a wife comes on here, and complains that her H isn't initiating we do say to get a t-test. It's not a horrible idea, but I don't think it's the cause of the issue.
It sounds like he has Nice Guy syndrome. They defer a lot to you, they're wishy washy, they can't tell you what they want for dinner (or any other activity)- my H had a habit of not speaking in any sort of concrete or absolute terms. He said "I suppose" a lot of the time (I'm still trying to break him of this)- rather than "yes!" or "that sounds great". Anything to avoid stating a preference, or desire for anything.
It will drive an Alpha girl up the freakin' wall.
You definitely don't have to justify what you do all day, but we're trying to help you cultivate some positive behaviors, or find your strenghts so you can add more positive things, or stop doing things that might be detrimental.
This thread is great:
http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/12689/new-and-needing-some-insight/p2
@BrianC has a lot of great insights in this thread that should help.
Grab a copy of the Mindful Attraction Plan. You can't change or control his behavior, but you can change yourself and hope that he follows. There's a lot that you can build off of with Nice Guy syndrome.
Get him a copy of No More Mr. Nice Guy- it's a great read. It might take him a while to read it because there are a lot of good exercises in it.
Good luck!
However, a large number of men here can tell you how much better their marriages are once their wives kicked the Facebook habit and started working/got involved in volunteer work/started taking classes/etc. If money isn't an issue, it doesn't matter what you do, as long as 1) it's productive; 2) it makes you feel good; 3) it's "interesting."
I'm not saying you're on Facebook all day ... I have no idea.
. . . . .
We all have things we can improve in ourselves, and improving them will help us improve our relationships. This is why Athol wrote the MAP book ... so we can figure out our own weak spots and improve them. Sometimes spouses follow along on the general improvement trend, if not, you have more leverage for asking them to change.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
The good news is that there is a lot of hope for you! The bad news is that it won't be fast or easy or nice and smooth and linear.
I for one think that getting back into some kind of paid work might be beneficial to you only in the sense that it would be a necessary step if you were to end up getting divorced, right? It might be a leverage point to show that you are very serious about wanting changes in your marriage. This is in no way a criticism of your status as a housewife. It is just one facet of the situation that may be worth your investigating.
changing that could begin an upward spiral of improvement all in itself
============================
Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
Wish you luck.
Divorce isn't on the table. I'm a child of divorce, and IMO this isn't a divorceable situation. And yeah, I can't call him a lazy bear.
I started reading the MAP book (free with Amazon Prime!) and will see what I can do. I know I can improve, I just need some feedback from my husband that he's willing to do the same. We shall see.
Often guys who don't seal the deal with their wives We need to absolutely eliminate the following:
Low testosterone.
Excessive porn use.
High stress levels.
Depression.
Erectile dysfunction.
Once we have ruled those out as the cause of his problems with a little detective work, then the next step is to start upping your game a bit. The big focus for you will be training him in presenting more Alpha and feeling safe expressing his wants. This is pretty simple behaviour modification, when he does something manly you praise him for it. Even if it is just opening jars. When he shows sexual desire, you reward him by not just responding but taking it up a notch, etc.
The more he knows you are going to respond enthusiastically, the bolder he will act.
Other than that, the MAP is probably going to include taking the next step in fitness to add some tone, and developing some interests outside the home, maybe a small business of your own, etc., so that he is reminded that your time is valuable, and if he wants it, he must pursue you a bit.
This will also boost your own confidence, so that when he is being a lazy bear it won't hurt so much. This will take away some of the power he currently has in the relationship which makes him feel comfortable in taking you for granted.
All men are great men, most fail to see the greatness in themselves.
Power, Passion, Principle and Purpose: The Wild Man Project
My most popular articles: The Art of the Apology (also on video), The Basics of Assertiveness, The Art of Friendship
I've been trying to get him to cut back on soda (read that can mess up T), but he reacted to that like I'd told him to quit brushing his teeth. As far as praising his manliness, I do that at every opportunity. And I'm working on how to get any unhappiness communicated without unwittingly emasculating him.
This is tough, as we both have a lot of years of conditioning under our belts. I don't want folks to think I'm resistant to making myself less available and picking up more (than I already have) outside interests, because the last time I was in that position (I was working, getting my MBA, taking care of the house, out with friends, etc)...rather than pursue me more as my time was "valuable", he just gave me more space so he wouldn't become an additional strain on my time and stress me out. Damned if I do, damned if I don't.
That rules out most medical issues. I suppose anxiety is a possibility, too, although that is comparatively rare in men. Then let's proceed to design a MAP that focuses on controlling what you can control.
The following are immediately apparent actions I can give you without running you through Athol's coaching questionnaire.
Develop outside interests - there is a temptation to orbit a lazy bear husband and hope and wish he would take control. This is going to make you frustrated, resentful or lonely. Whether it is a small business, a few classes, or a part-time job, having something that gets you out of the house and lets you make new friends is critical.
It will keep your mood in check. It will give him a chance to miss you. It will give you a support network. It will give you something else to think about which will boost your outcome independence.
You already have the potential for high earning and are well-educated. Right now, I think that what you would best benefit from is a combination of something physical to do, something community-oriented or voluntary, and courses on something that encourages intellectual or spiritual growth.
Learning meditation, yoga, guitar, or a new language are great choices.
That said, having a little extra money for a wardrobe upgrade (even if you don't really need it) will make you feel proud of yourself. Or when we get this ball rolling for handcuffs, scented oils, and blindfolds.
Boost your physical game - congratulations on the weight loss, by the way. Quite a feat!! The next step is to tighten up the butt and add a little muscle to the legs and arms. Get a a tan and a sexy haircut. Start dressing one step sexier - the ladies can help you better than I can on that one. I can say that skirts, long hair, and bright, cheerful colours are always a great start.
When you look good, you feel better about yourself. Your husband will also have to sit up and take notice, and have something to be jealous about. It will also get other men checking you out, which will help remind you that you are an attractive woman, because that is something that you need to be reminded of.
Hone your flirtation - not only do you want to respond when he flirts, but he needs to be reminded of the sexual nature of your relationship. You can do that by flirting with him more. Sexting is a forum favourite option, but boudoir photos, spicy love letters slipped into his lunch, teasing him by wandering around in very little clothing, etc. can help.
More importantly flirt with him in a light-handed way in public. Laugh at his jokes, play with your hair, make some saucy comments, etc. He needs to be aware that you are in a sexual frame of mind, and have some reason to fear that if he doesn't step up his game he is going to lose you.
Actionably, do one thing every other day to express interest.
Pick one way to add some value to the home - whether it is decorating, learning feng-shui, organizing things, doing some clutter-clearing, or whatever. Finding just one project around the house that will let you make that nest a little more comfortable would be great.
Throw him softballs - right now you want to see some leadership and he needs to build comfort leading. For that, give him some easy opportunities. Ask him to choose some meals for the week's meal plan, get him to opine on a choice of two outfits, ask him to pick out a move for a stay-in date. Making little choices now will get him comfortable making bigger choices later.
Encourage him to indulge in hobbies - what is he interested in? Whatever it is, he probably could afford to do more of it, out of the house, or with friends. The funny thing about marriage is that it works best if you both have lives outside it so that you can appreciate what you have when you are together.
A great technique here is to buy him a gift related to a hobby he has. He will want to use the gift, and that will get him going on working the hobby more. If he carves, buy him a dremmel. If he is a sports fan, get him some team memorabilia (or tickets). If he is a craft beer guy, get him a beer club membership, etc.
Right now you live well below your means, which means you have a margin to work with in investing in classes, skills, etc. Don't be afraid to use it. After all, this is an investment in the happiness of your marriage.
All men are great men, most fail to see the greatness in themselves.
Power, Passion, Principle and Purpose: The Wild Man Project
My most popular articles: The Art of the Apology (also on video), The Basics of Assertiveness, The Art of Friendship
A Nice Guy basically wants peace and predictability above all else. Anything that might cause conflict is to be avoided. If you ask a Nice Guy to do something, he will do the minimum required to please you (possibly while grumbling), and then let that slowly taper off.
Nice Guys also feel unworthy, especially about sex. They are afraid to ask for the things that they want in life, and hope against hope that people will guess what they want and give it to them, without the Nice Guy ever having to ask or express his needs. He likes to imagine there is a book of rules for living in civil society, where if you do A, everyone else will do B. "If I am nice, everyone will like me.", "If I am funny, no one will bully me.", "If I am sensitive, women will love me.", "If I provide the money, my wife will give me blowjobs whenever I seem horny." etc., etc., ad infinitum.
If your husband is a Nice Guy, he'll need some help breaking out of that shell.
Have a look at Robert Glover's description of a Nice Guy, and tell me if it resonates.
All men are great men, most fail to see the greatness in themselves.
Power, Passion, Principle and Purpose: The Wild Man Project
My most popular articles: The Art of the Apology (also on video), The Basics of Assertiveness, The Art of Friendship
Start with a total testosterone test. Get the actual number and post it here and we can walk you through what it means. The easiest way is to use one of those walk-in labs. For most of them, you can get total T tested for under $50 and you typically don't need a doctor's requisition.
Just google 'walk in lab' and <your zip code>. Multiple options should pop up. That rules the most obvious culprit in or out and you can go from there.
The Secret to Why Your Wife Doesn't Initiate; Top Two Reasons Your Husband Doesn't Want Sex; Dominance-It's Not a Bad Word; Top 10 Ways to Increase Testosterone Naturally