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New Member - Ran MAP for 3 Years, Still Stuck

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  • crescit13crescit13 USAMember Posts: 13
    I appreciate all of the responses.  I think Athol hit the nail on the head - running the MAP for its own sake was useful and productive.  But using the MAP to solve my relationship problems was a category error.  It's not designed for, and will be ineffective for, the much deeper issues that my sexual relationship has.
  • crescit13crescit13 USAMember Posts: 13
    Thanks everyone for your support here.  A brief update:
    We started marriage counseling.  We have made good progress on the division of chores.  She acknowledged that I did more of the work around the house.  Her excuse was that she was going to get around to them, but she was tired, I did them before she had a chance, etc.  In any case, she honestly has been making effort on that front.

    Her issues with me centered on my job.  As I stated in the triage, I spent about one day a week in a hotel on the road each week.  I have made an effort to WFH at least two days per week and reduce the overnights to every other week (it's only been a month of this new schedule, but it's a start).  She has appreciated that I have been home more.

    We talked with the therapist about sex.  FWIW, this was just a couples therapist, not a sex therapist.  My wife confessed that every single time we had PiV intercourse, it was painful.  Every time (I had no idea it was EVERY time).  The therapist asked if this was an issue that she wanted to work on, and my wife said no.  She was happy with Other Sexual Activity (OSA) and that since we weren't having any other children, there was no reason we had to have PiV sex to have enjoyable sexual experiences.  

    We also talked about the frequency of our OSA.  The therapist told me that it is quite common for a husband to desire sex more frequently.  There is no magic bullet or female Viagra to increase her libido.  So while it is something that my wife should work on because it is important to me, I should also focus on redirecting my sexual energy toward more productive activities instead of letting it consume me and cause resentment of my wife.  That this resentment was preventing me from appreciating and loving my wife.  My wife was quite happy to hear that, probably because it lets her off the hook for the biggest issue that I had in the marriage.  

    I'm reluctant to switch to another therapist.  It will look like I am spitefully switching because I didn't get the answer that I wanted to hear about sex, and then my wife will completely shut down on the process.  And we have been making good progress on several issues. But on the other hand, I feel as if this therapy isn't addressing my #1 issue and made it all my problem to deal with.  


  • KickboxerKickboxer USASilver Member Posts: 1,120
    Did the therapist suggest any actions to your wife about the pain she experiences during intercourse?  Was it just accepted that your wife didn't want to work on it?  Did the therapist really tell her that all she needed to do to improve the marriage was more housework?  Maybe this was just one session and therapy would be more involved and critical over time.

    What I read from your therapy description is that you are getting duty sex and the therapist thinks you should be happy with that kind of sex.  Sustained "duty sex" is not a healthy trend in a marriage.
    AngelineBen
  • HildaCornersHildaCorners Winter? You call *that* winter?Gold Women Posts: 3,377
    The therapist said one outright lie:
    There is no magic bullet or female Viagra to increase her libido.
    Because there is one — you running a solid MAP. The more you build up your attractiveness, the more she can trust in you, the higher her libido rises.

    What's even better, the activities you do for your MAP are things that either are completely under the therapist's radar or look "right" to the therapist.

    I suggest you get Athol's new video series ... it's an excellent explanation of exactly what to do and why.


    Enneagram 5w4.  I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.

    "I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
    fordsvt
  • MangueMangue FranceMember Posts: 74
    crescit13 said:
    My wife confessed that every single time we had PiV intercourse, it was painful. Every time (I had no idea it was EVERY time).  The therapist asked if this was an issue that she wanted to work on, and my wife said no.
    That. It's a medical or psychological issue. It need to be adressed.
    Of course it'ld be easier/better if you pass the fitness tests, build some attraction, and make her want to work on it by herself.
    Angeline
  • ffp20ffp20 upstate nySilver Member Posts: 224
    Perhaps the therapist themselves are experiencing that  and think if its ok for them, its ok for you.  
    TrumanAngeline
  • HildaCornersHildaCorners Winter? You call *that* winter?Gold Women Posts: 3,377
    Getting philosophical for a bit ...

    The vast majority of therapists, even marriage therapists, know very little about sexuality, especially in the other gender. And the profession as a whole tends to the "blue pill".

    So a male marriage therapist, when faced with a woman who hates sex with her husband, would be looking for infidelity or be convinced she's low drive. He's not likely to assume she isn't attracted and has no responsive desire.

    Likewise, @crescit13's female therapist is assuming his sex drive works the same way a woman's does ... fight the urge until it goes away, leaving you happy and healthy.

    It would be nice if male-female differences were taught in therapy school, but they aren't, and unfortunately, aren't likely to be taught for many years.
    Enneagram 5w4.  I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.

    "I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
  • OneEyedDrunkOneEyedDrunk Out West Silver Member Posts: 1,808
    I recommend continuing your phases, progress to Phase 4, and have the conversation. A normal healthy sex life is reasonable. You deserve a healthy sex life which includes PIV sex with your wife. Hopefully she will seek out medical help along the way. 

    Honestly, it's a tough situation. I've been there. Things are slowly reverting back to less sex, so I'm back to my MAP at a greater pace. 
    oneeyeddrunk.weebly.com
    SignorePillolaRossa
  • fordsvtfordsvt Canada Eh!Silver Member Posts: 2,300
    I think in order for a marriage to really grow you need sex. PIV lust love for play the works. There is no half way or 50/50. I'm working on this too like many here. But if you build yourself to be an awesome person the rest should come. This takes time so be patient. 

    Into Phase 3..

    Those Who Dare......Win.   "What gives you fear today...Gives you Strength tomorrow.."

  • findingalphafindingalpha Great lakesGold Men Posts: 207
    It is hard to think clearly and come up with the perfect response or pivot in the moment it is happening. It far easier to follow the one telling us what we should feeling. 

    Your second appointment is coming soon. Yes? Lead it. Take off from the beginning. Explain that this affected you and felt to you as untrue.  You feel that to be healthy in the relationship you need to do and feel .... The relationship needs to move towards .....
    Angeline
  • ffp20ffp20 upstate nySilver Member Posts: 224
    Are there really any DECENT relationship therapists out there? 
  • crescit13crescit13 USAMember Posts: 13

    Update – this may be evolving into a different thread at this point, so if it should move, mods please do so – after a few counseling sessions, it’s apparent that my wife is not going to budge on the issue.  The therapist also recognized and commented that she has no intention of making any changes in the sex life, so further discussion about it would not be productive for anyone.  I see this leading inevitably to the Ultimatum phase. 

    The Ultimatum is a big step.  On one hand, I find the current relationship to be unacceptable due to her unilateral decision to shut down our sex life.  On the other hand, being a part time parent with reduced access to my kids feels too awful to contemplate.  And while we don’t have the AAAAAF relationship that many here have had, it’s closer to that than FFFFFF.  So I would miss the other aspects of the relationship that are going well.

    What has been the experience with this by other people with young children?  Once it was done, did the pain of being a part-time parent overwhelm the pain of being an involuntary celibate?  Or was the experience positive once you finally ended a failed relationship?  Again, I’m looking for the perspective of those with children.  If there were no kids, or if they were college-age, this would be a no-brainer.

  • HowlAtTheMoonHowlAtTheMoon Silver Member Posts: 1,183
    Only you can really answer that for yourself.
    How much energy is draining from you in regards to your marriage? 
    You likely won't even know until it is done and you feel fully back in control of your life. 
    And just because the kids only see you half the week,  doesn't make you half their dad. 
    [Deleted User]WheelManAngeline
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