Desperate: My wife needs dopamine from me fast or I will lose her...

mapman8

Long story short, I've let all the excitement in our marriage of 10 years evaporate. My wife is very fun and social, and relies on that, but we've let us having two kids keep us from having a adult / social fun together for too long. I've been too complacent in letting it happen, and so my wife sought her dopamine fix from a co-worker.

There is a small chance / short window of saving the marriage, but it relies on me quickly bringing back some feelings of excitement that I have forgotten how to provide. I feel helpless in thinking out how to excite my wife at this point. I'm desperate. I need to be her dopamine fix again or it's done.

Maria

I am very sorry to hear that your marriage is rocky now and I truly hope you can turn things around.
For best advice on how to proceed please answer the triage questions.

http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/

When you say your wife looked for dopamin from a co-worker do you mean she had a physical affair?

Jen_Kay

Hi @mapman8 , welcome to the forum. I would also encourage you to fill out the triage questions that Maria linked above. They will help us to give you the best advice.

SaigoTakamori

Fill out a triage

Buy the books, read them,  go to the site AtholKay.com (webinars)
Start to Lift some heavy things and put them back down. 
Take her with abandon.
Take a damn breath and calm down.

mapman8

TRIAGE: She doesn't love me any more. She doesn't want to settle on me anymore. Divorce has been discussed and is imminent. I've already read all the books and blogs here (starting about 7 months ago). I didn't do a good job executing.

1A. I'm 34, my wife is 37. We got married almost 10 years ago, after dating 5 years prior. So I've been dating her since college (and her right after college). We have 2 children, 7 and 5.

We are both good looking people, but she's better looking. We're both 5'7" or so (she's taller in heals). She's in good shape. But to be honest her body has taken a bit of a toll from having children. You can't tell when's dressed up though. Overall she's gorgeous.

I'm a good looking guy, and I'm in great shape. I'm not tall, but have a athletic / muscular build. She's a sports nut though, so I bet she wishes she married a tall guy.

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2A. No medical issues with me. With her I think there may some minor medical issues at play (perhaps hormone imbalance and/or potential thyroid issues), but I'm not a doctor and she wont get tested. She already has lots of issues with allergies, sinuses, etc so feels like she's at the doctor enough. Me suggesting she get tested at this point would make it seem I'm pushing the cause for all this back on her and would make things worse.

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3A. No Structural Attraction Issues. I'm in great physical shape. I'm successfully self-employed, made a few-hundred-thousand dollars last year that allowed us to pay off most of our debt and get a big savings account for the first time ever. I also work from home (more on this later), so split all child duties (as opposed to being gone at work all the time). We have a pretty nice home in a nice neighborhood we can easily afford.

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4A. Critical Moments and Neglect. Yep, I screwed up here big-time. We've been having trouble for quite a while (though I didn't understand how bad). On our 9th anniversary seven or so months ago my card to her said something like "We're still trying to figure out how to make each other happy. Things will be different next year one way or another." I was trying to be alpha. This really hurt her and she hasn't forgiven me for this.

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5A. Twice there has been outside sexual sources. Once 4+ years ago (one time thing). Then again recently (less than two months ago, lighter but ongoing). That's why it's critical now.

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6A. The sex went bad a long time ago. Don't even remember when it was still good. When we were still having sex it was a chore for her. The frequency has been a continual frustration to me. We've been at a couple times per month for so long now that I don't remember when it was different.

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7A. At the start 15 years ago sex was frequent and great. The first 3 years of our relationship was long distance so we were like bunnies when we'd see each other every few weeks. It definitely dropped off after marriage, but not sure when. 

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8A. Twice she's turned to another man, once 4+ years ago, then two months ago. While different men, both have been co-workers. One was the equivalent of flirting with a one-night stand. The recent one hasn't yet gone outside the office or involved intercourse, but has been everything else and in the office. Dopamine. Dopamine. Dopamine.

The elephant in the room is that this has happened because I'm boring. She's a very social creature and I've let my social connections / life whither to nothing and discouraged hers too much (allegedly). The result is a monotonous, boring home life and we get no excitement together.

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9A. There is no clear leader in our marriage. We are both so independent that it's more running the house / family is very well divided, but not really cooperative. Either of us trying to assume leadership leads to battles.

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10A. Good times were drinking at smokey bars, traveling to meet each other, hosting gatherings at our house, concerts, our playing games together over drinks. Since kid stuff started 8 years ago they've been few and far between. The mental state I'm in now makes it hard to remember when the last good times really were. And that's the problem. She is a very fun person, and I've allowed that to be squashed and she resents me for it.

The_Dude

But you need to hit this on both fronts, fix your issues and kill the affair properly.
I'll let others comment on the dopamine problem.  

How did the last affair get outed and how did it end?  What was the fallout at the time?  What was her reaction?  Real remorse, blame, ???

Does she know you know what's going on now?  What exactly do you know?

As many facts and details as possible if you want good advice.

Angeline

5a. Who had the affairs (if that's what you mean - euphemisms are not your friend here, they just slow down the sharing of important info), you or here? By one time do you mean a one night stand? Was it a stranger, friend or coworker? Confessed or discovered by spouse? Is there any ongoing contact at all, ever?

Same questions for the second affair. 

growingafamily

According to 8A., his wife had both affairs.

Angeline

Ack thanks @growingafamily, my reading comprehension is FAIL today! Sorry @mapman8.

DaddyOh

Agree with the ^^ posts. 
Focus on you. 
I still don't get how you feel you screwed up with the card (yes it was poorly worded). But Let's not forget her infidelity. Are you sure you're sharing everything with us?

Athol_Kay

Bumped to Silver. Switched to 911 Category.

mapman8

I feel I screwed up with the card because yesterday she said that's when it went from a tough marriage to her starting to numb herself to me. I followed it with months of poorly executed alpha and declining beta.

First affair I knew there was an inappropriate relationship of some sort, but she convinced me it fizzled out before it got anywhere. A few months later she confessed that she had slept with him once when drunk and felt terrible remorse. I got over it.

Second instance I found out by snooping the same weekend she said she wants a divorce. I told her I knew, got her to confess everything (which all matched up with what I already had facts on). No intercourse, but no remorse either. I contacted the other man, met him face to face. He is a total beta, 10 years younger than her, religious kid with a 7 year girlfriend, called me "sir", could hardly look me in the eye or speak. He actually called me after the meeting, teared up, and thanked me for meeting him and offering to do anything he can to help. I'm pretty sure it's over now based on that and her behavior (though she won't discuss it).

To be honest, because of the totally bizarre and pathetic nature of this second indiscretion, it's somehow more forgivable. I know she's just so hurt by me and distanced from me that she just needed some beta, somebody to make her feel appreciated. And messing around at work supplied the dopamine she so desperately needed.

She was gung-ho on divorce, was looking at apartments, and had a meeting scheduled with attorney. Then at the last minute she finally agreed to counseling (which she was adamantly opposed to), but she said she doesn't love me anymore after the first session. 

She prides herself on being social, fun and fiercely independent. Says she doesn't want to settle for me anymore and deserves to be happy. I want to keep our family together and rebuild the marriage for good. She doesn't think it's possible. But she's not gone yet. So I'm fighting until it's over.

Angeline

I know it seems like we're harping on this card thing, but I don't get why it was bad, either. 

In your heart of hearts, do you think you did a bad thing? Or is it just that she says so, so it must have been bad?

Were you trying a little back door passive aggressive swipe regarding the lack of sex or something, instead of coming right out and saying it in some other setting? If so, I can see how she actually read your intent correctly, thus the hurt feelings. 

If so, some solid, no bullshit statements are going to really help you in these marital counseling sessions. Because you know what? She knows it already. She knows what the elephant is, and it's 50% lack of sex life and 50% your mind reading and insecurity. Which you can totally fix and start kicking ass at. She picked you at your current height. You make a good living and have a solid career/financial plan. She's not getting any younger. 

I would highly recommend a one hour call with Athol so you can really plan out these counseling sessions and map out a plan for the next few weeks, and really go after it with everything you've got. Passivity will kill it. Be passionate and throw everything you have at it in the next few weeks. 

http://marriedmansexlife.com/2014/07/why-was-her-affair-partner-worse-than-me/

Husband3point0

Ok, so talk through what builds dopamine for her. What attracted her to you in the first place?  Did you guys do exciting stuff and that tapered off with the birth of the kids?  Were you different around her? Was there an activity you used to do for fun that you can restart?

Date her all over again. How would you woo her if you were just starting out right now?

You're basically saying "I'm boring", so clearly the solution is to be more exciting. What excites her?

soa2005

@mapman8 ;
The fact that she ended up coming clean later on after initially trickle truthing you speaks volumes to me. She felt guilty and has shown you remorse. That's big.

Things in your relationship that were lacking did not change and now she recently started an "ea". You did a pretty solid job of shutting it down. They work together though so I think moving forward you are going to need access to communications, whereabouts, plans, etc. Also, what was said between your wife and the co worker? How innapropriate was this? Was there specific talk of escalating? Were there any "I love you's"? Depending on how bad it was it may be difficult for you to make progress in your marriage with those two still in close proximity. 

How has she responded to you busting this affair? I know she has not shown remorse, yet. What exactly was said between the two of you? Was there an ultimatum? If so, what were the demands? 

You have become complacent and things are boring. Does your wife stay at home with you or does she have her own social life? Like @Husband2point1 ;
asked, what fun things did you guys use to do? Do you have any shared interests that could get the two of you out more? 
It seems like you're doing ok financially so what is the reason for the lack of date nights and fun? What changed and when did it change? What's missing that use to work for you guys?

Your wife agreed to marriage counseling so let's assume that there is some part of her that wants this to work. After the first affair did you tell her you were going to make changes in the marriage and not follow through? Did you guys ever discuss exactly why the first affair happened? I agree with you that dopamine is missing here but I'm curious about what your wife has said about the problems.

mapman8

She doesn't want to date me. She has absolutely no feelings of attraction for me anymore. The only reason she hasn't left is the kids. She cares for me, doesn't want to hurt me, but doesn't want me as her husband. She said to me last night she deserves better. 

In terms of the value scale, she somehow feels she is suddenly way above me. This has to be due to lack of perceived social high-value (at least in part). This is hard to counter because I work from home and my outside social life really has withered away.

I need to start to build attraction again somehow, quickly. I need to get some steps there before I can start dating her again. (I'm sure being obviously consumed with one-itis for her doesn't help.)

soa2005

@mapman8 ;
Btw welcome. It's a shitty situation but you're in a really good place. This forum has helped a ton of people better themselves. 

mapman8

@soa2005 My wife's social life has suffered almost down to nothing too, but she can fire it back up pretty easily, and has started to.

For us to move forward we would need to rebuild trust. However, the notion that I should have access to her plans, whereabouts, etc is completely opposite of what she wants right now. She wants independence, has stated so plainly, and feels like she owes nothing to me.

I believe the only reason she agreed to do counseling was for self-justification of ending it. She knows divorce will be hell, so she's willing to put it off a little to do something that will relieve her of guilt. 

mapman8

@generalzod I did talk to an attorney. The picture does not look good (no fault state, I have a business to protect, so she'd probably take everything else financially). I was ready to file until she said she'd try counseling. So that gets my hopes up, but then she makes it quite clear that she doesn't think there is any chance for this to work. I'm a roommate to her.

And I know logically that me driving myself crazy to try to get it to work doesn't actually help my chances.

I don't want to bluff either though, because I think she'd call my bluff and be done with it.

So I guess that is the secret I'm looking for. How can I be alpha, kick her some dopamine, when I'm at such a disadvantage?

Leatherleaf

I agree with @generalzod. 

Trying to increase dopamine by increasing relationship comfort is the wrong way to go and is too beta. 

I know most here hate the 180 but the way you are defending her and putting up with serial cheating is demonstrative of the value you place on her and conversely yourself.  It might drive her into the other dude's arms but too much beta will definitely make her loathe you more. 

soa2005

"She doesn't want to date me. She has absolutely no feelings of attraction for me anymore. The only reason she hasn't left is the kids. She cares for me, doesn't want to hurt me, but doesn't want me as her husband. She said to me last night she deserves better. "

Hang in in there buddy. Not to give you a false sense of hope but my wife felt the exact same way a little over 18 months ago. My wife also agreed to marriage counseling which helped me get my foot in the door to save my marriage.

 If you want this then right now you have to step up and be at your best. If you're sulking then stop. If she's being cold and distant then you do something fun with the kids or by yourself. 
If an opportunity presents itself for one of you to extend an olive branch then grasp it and build from there. Your wife is checked out and the marriage is hanging by a thread. You have to immediately inject some positivity into this situation to at least get to counseling.