Desperate: My wife needs dopamine from me fast or I will lose her...

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  • Athol_KayAthol_Kay My Underground LairPosts: 8,046
    edited March 2015
    Athol_Kay said:
    fordsvt said:
    Angeline said:
    She likely told the OM she was going to be available, and he woke up.

    For sure-I eluded to that before as well. She was used for sex that's it. Sounds pretty normal. Stay strong and play your hand slowly. See how things shake out for the next little bit. No beta orbiting and work on your frame bud. Make her wake up and come to you.
    And then you'd be Plan B... No. Thanks.

    If you've decided that no affair should be recovered as a matter of principle, then you're just here to troll right?

    No, Sir, that would be wrong. I do believe some affairs are recoverable, my position has not changed.

    Let me clarify... @mapman8's wife moving into an apartment and getting "used for sex", while he waits for her to "wake up" is not a viable strategy. By all means, MAP, find his frame, move on, and make an awesome life with his kids. just don't pine away, waiting for her to come to her senses... That's being a Plan B.

    I don't think you understood what @fordsvt said then.

    He said she was used for sex, past tense, and she seems to already be coming to her senses. 

    I'm not sure where you got the idea that @fordsvt was advising to watch her move into an apartment and have the affair restart. What he did say was to work on frame.

     One Hour Call   12-Week Guided MAP

    "The turnaround is tremendous.  And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects.  I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force.  :)  He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well."  - Scarlet

    BlackwulffordsvtAngeline
  • HildaCornersHildaCorners Winter? You call *that* winter?Gold Women Posts: 3,377
    She asked "Can we just hang out tonight?" I said "Sure, I was going to watch House of Cards. You can watch it with me." I'm sure there are a million better responses, but that's what I mustered out of nowhere and knowing we're stuck in the house with the kiddos tonight.
    This was actually a good, alpha response. Being Captain isn't only about being awesome/alpha in big ways, it's a frame for all your actions. Clearly, watching TV was the Thing To Do, she had permission to join you.

    And that's how you add more dopamine ... do awesome, attractive things and she can either step up or not. Her choice, you won't be less awesome if she's gone or more awesome if she stays.

    One thing ... I would not "sit her down" to discuss numbers yet, if ever. Be prepared if she wants to start the conversation, or if she comes to you saying "Honey, give me $1600 first month's rent plus deposit." Other than that, say nothing about her leaving but give her a good show of what she'll be missing when she moves away — be Awesome Dad with the kids, do cool stuff for yourself, but treat her as a roommate you need to be nice to.

    Enneagram 5w4.  I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.

    "I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
    446
  • fordsvtfordsvt Canada Eh!Silver Member Posts: 2,300
    Athol_Kay said:
     

     

    I don't think you understood what @fordsvt said then.

    He said she was used for sex, past tense, and she seems to already be coming to her senses. 

    I'm not sure where you got the idea that @fordsvt was advising to watch her move into an apartment and have the affair restart. What he did say was to work on frame.

    Exactly what I meant. I'm not saying fund an Apt for her to use as a Fuck Pad.
    If she's serious, let her work at this to come back to you. However, you need Frame and good solid Alpha in the mix. Don't back down from anything. Have smart well thought out replies - always.
    Not shocked the OM dropped her. He's done and moving on. Here is where the Fog lifts and common sense slowly comes back.

    Into Phase 3..

    Those Who Dare......Win.   "What gives you fear today...Gives you Strength tomorrow.."

    BlackwulfAngeline
  • fordsvtfordsvt Canada Eh!Silver Member Posts: 2,300
    Although I do agree with @TheDude states above. This is the second time for this. I for one would not let this pass. I would file no matter what she shows or states. 
    You have a good business. You are sound financially and can move on. Another woman would like to take her place I'm sure. I personally would opt out and file. 

    Into Phase 3..

    Those Who Dare......Win.   "What gives you fear today...Gives you Strength tomorrow.."

  • BlackwulfBlackwulf Leading the pack. Silver Member Posts: 1,782
    edited March 2015
    Just to expand a bit on @fordsvt points: At 34 with a very good business, good health,  you can rebuild yourself and find a much better younger woman pretty quickly. You probably have some work to do on yourself mentally/lifestyle to not have this same type of relationship happen again.  Maybe gain some more muscle, but all doable stuff.  

    The fact is though for her to do it twice shows there are some big gaping holes in her psyche.   She has shown her true colors, and the fact that she can "do better" to me is really stupid.  1) Your in really good shape 2) Your a great provider 3)She is 3 years older than you.  

    I think she doesn't understand the reality that a quality guy of your level,  3 years younger is going to have a lot of options.  Not even a 25 year old, much lower on the SR scale really wants her.    
    WheelManDaddyOhCarrotcake
  • Athol_KayAthol_Kay My Underground LairPosts: 8,046
    The_Dude said:
    She's cheated on him twice separated by four years.  Once is a come to jesus moment, you reevaluate your lives, realize you both made some stupid choices, you both got lost for a while, and you both buy back in.  It's possible to look at a person you love and empathize with what brought you both to this place when you haven't seen it before and then set it all aside.  Really hard but possible.
    Falling 'in love' with a second guy, betraying him again, the utter disdain and lack of empathy ("she doesn't want to be married to me, that she deserves better than me", "if you expect me to feel guilty, I don't"); I don't see how you recover this and end up down the road in some nice place.  
    To have that person do it to you again, actually, go out and fuck you over in the most fundamental way again, humiliate you utterly.  They didn't understand the damage they did the first time?  Bullshit.  I can't imagine anyone who's successfully put this together once entertaining the idea of doing it again four years later.  She expresses no remorse.  This is a recipe for a long drawn out bloodletting.  If he doesn't move now he loses any leverage he has to protect his interests.

    And I would automatically agree if the marriage has been successfully recovered from  first affair.


    So, if you're going to make the argument that the marriage was successfully recovered from the first affair...

    Please lay out what the plan of recovery was for the first affair and how the OP fixed the marriage after that.

    What exactly did he do? Was there counseling et al? Tell me how the marriage changed after the first affair for the better. Tell me how he successfully put it together again. 

    Just the facts please.

     One Hour Call   12-Week Guided MAP

    "The turnaround is tremendous.  And I'm lifting weights, eating better, and tackling projects.  I have all this great energy without a vampire sucking my life force.  :)  He's a lot stronger standing on his own two feet, as well."  - Scarlet

    Jen_KayCrashaxeEightbitPersephone
  • mapman8mapman8 Silver Member Posts: 38
    I didn't handle the first affair the way I should have. (That won't be a surprise for anyone who's been reading.)

    This time we are divorcing. Talked it out this morning and agreed. I canceled the counseling session that was scheduled tomorrow. She's out looking for places now. We are both relieved, I think, knowing it's the right thing to do.

    She's a good person. She's also terribly selfish (she's always admitted this). And she's just not happy now. She is capable of being two different people a few minutes apart. She really does just need to find herself.

    For me, I just can't accept this again and am not willing to fight for it. I'm not selfish, but I deserve better.

    We both agree we wish we could rewind six months or fast forward six months right about now.

    I'm sad and I'm scared. But I know I'm doing the right thing. And I'm honestly looking forward to meeting new women.
    not_again
  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,583

    I’m not making the argument that they recovered from the first affair properly although I see how my wording implies that.  My reference anyone who's “successfully put this together once” was trying to say that it seems like a prerequisite to me that both parties know there won’t be a second chance.  If the woman thinks you’re weak enough to even entertain that, then you’re done anyway.  One affair is a damned if you do, damned if you don’t world class fitness test.  To pass it, it seems to me you have to be clear you’re not playing that game again.

    You’re saying there is some path through this where you fail to do it right the first time, she has another affair, and you have a chance to fix it right this time.   You may be right, I don’t know, but in this case it seems very improbable and the risk outweighs the return.  

    You need to rebuild trust, you need to have her respect, and you would need to rebuild attraction.  I don’t see how he ever trusts her again.  Real, gut level, trust.  But yeah, that’s just my personal perspective. 

    He obviously doesn’t currently have her respect.  She is explicitly expressing distain.  Not just normal anger, but distain.  On top of whatever mistakes he made leading up to and after discovery of the first affair, he has displayed really low value in the way he handled this one.  He confronted her, she told him to go pound sand, she wanted a divorce.  The affair continued and he’s been allowing this for 2 months.  He has allowed her to go into work each day and be with this guy who she gave a blowjob at work.  They both know it.  Maybe now the affair is really over?  I don’t know exactly why but it wasn’t deltaman’s doing.  So basically he’s positioned this whole time as plan B patiently waiting around while his wife screws around with another man.  I don’t see an easy path back to respect.

    Can he rebuild attraction?  Maybe, if she were to be cooperative with trying to repair this.  And he can identify something more actionable than “She thinks I’m boring”.  But it doesn’t look like there is a whole lot here to work with.  “The sex went bad a long time ago. Don't even remember when it was still good.” 

    Over and over she makes it clear she has no remorse.  This one is a strong indicator that this is too far gone.

    So ok, there is some long shot here that he sets down a hard A/B, she agrees to it, he then runs a map and rebuilds attraction, and she stops viewing him with disdain and they fix this.  Seems like a very long shot to me and would require some master ju-jitsu beyond my ability to contemplate.   

    And on a practical level, does option A include her continuing to work with this guy?  Does he force her to quit?  Or does he send her off to work every day with her affair partner?

    Weighed against this.   

    “I'm successfully self-employed, made a few-hundred-thousand dollars last year that allowed us to pay off most of our debt and get a big savings account for the first time ever.”

    “If we divorce she'll take the money, house, and assets for me to protect my business. I'm in a no fault state.”

    If she wants to, she can force him to pay her half the value of the business in the asset split  (not even considering alimony).  A good lawyer who sees a couple hundred K income from a business is going to value that at least several times the income, depending on the details it could be 3-10x.  “If we divorce she'll take the money, house, and assets for me to protect my business. I'm in a no fault state.”

    The only leverage he has is the risk to her career.

    “She specifically / adamantly said she doesn't want me coming to visit where she works (because the EA was with a co-worker and she's afraid I'd jeopardize her job).”   - it’s not an EA by the way.

    That and her probably not being all that clear headed yet may help him negotiate a deal that doesn’t kill him financially.  That window is closing fast.

    On top of it all, it seems like the only possible way he shows he thinks he has value is to start protecting his own interests to the fullest extent possible and kill his self-declared oneitis.

    I think some of this is driven by my sensitivity to his business.  Someone upthread suggested he could just close it and start another one.  That is not so easy.  The vast majority of small business startups aren’t successful enough to throw off a couple hundred K in income.  It may be possible to recover this marriage, but it doesn’t look likely; I’d be focused on saving the business.  Maybe some more details on the business would clarify things.

    But honestly, I didn’t explicitly run through all this point by point before posting the previous comment.  I just sat and tried to imagine actually being in his situation and my overwhelming intuition said shields up, lock photon torpedoes.  But maybe there is some Kobayashi Maru solution I don’t see.

    fordsvt[Deleted User]
  • mapman8mapman8 Silver Member Posts: 38
    @The_Dude You're right in just about everything.

    Though at this point she has no interest in trying to fuck up the business. She loves me and loves our children. She really is sensible and good person, most of the time, and has plenty to gain with what we already have liquid. The only way that changes is if her lawyer convinces her otherwise.


  • AngelineAngeline planting seedsCategory Moderator** Posts: 14,500
    You still need to go to counseling, but with concentration on how to be divorced parents.
    "Speak your truth." - Scarlet
    Remember to play!
    Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
    Be married, until you are not.

    Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
    Athol_KayDaddyOhHildaCorners[Deleted User]
  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,583
    I don't know what exact business this is but I wouldn't be worried about her trying to fuck it up, I'd be worried about her retaining some portion of ownership.

    But also, if the affair really did end in the last couple of days, she may wake up and reevaluate everything completely.  If that happens and you want to give it a shot you can.  I'd strongly advise you to call Athol and get some professional advice.  
  • mapman8mapman8 Silver Member Posts: 38
    edited March 2015
    The affair really did end (and spring break is this week, so she won't be seeing him everyday). But at this point she's not reevaluating wanting to be with me, or rather she has reevaluated and decided against it. She's been unhappy for a while and worked hard to talk herself into this. Now that could change in the next few months, but at this point we are pretty gung-ho and cooperative about getting this done as soon as reasonably possible.

    She'll be filing on Tuesday after meeting with an attorney. I met with my attorney last week and they assured me that there was no real advantage to me being the first to file. And that it could work to my advantage if it had to go to trial to show that she was the one making the decision to leave (plus the EMAs).

    Regarding the business, it wouldn't really be possible to give her part ownership I don't think. There are other partners in the business and they'd have right of first refusal, etc. When I say she'd fuck it up it would be if I had to sell out half of my shares to pay her off or something like that. She's adamant she doesn't want to do that (for a similar reason I didn't want to screw up her career), and I believe her. But we'll see how she feels after talking with an attorney...
  • HildaCornersHildaCorners Winter? You call *that* winter?Gold Women Posts: 3,377
    If she's willing to settle for less than 50% of your interest in the business, you should be racing to file and get the settlement approved by the Court. If she's willing to take less than a judge might award her, act before she changes her mind.

    By the way, don't worry about alimony. She has a job that pays a living wage; the most she's likely to get is a year or so of a small amount to help her financially manage the transition. Lifetime alimony for full support is as dead as the dodo.

    Enneagram 5w4.  I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.

    "I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
    fordsvt
  • fordsvtfordsvt Canada Eh!Silver Member Posts: 2,300
    I agree too. If you want a divorce, and not longer want to be attached to this women go for it. If you can get a Shot Gun separation from her where she leaves most of the assets, get her to sign that Mofo ASAP!!
    Then move on and learn from this. Beta finishes last-always.

    Into Phase 3..

    Those Who Dare......Win.   "What gives you fear today...Gives you Strength tomorrow.."

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