Extremely frustrated Newbie! Need advice asap. - Thanks

SignorePillolaRossa

have you consulted a lawyer so as to be fully informed regarding all aspects of what a divorce would look like, should you need to get to the A/B presentation? ... so informed, you could make the presentation of your plan for the separation - at least as an opening salvo to be negotiated - that is, if you can't get her to sit down to constructively assemble a plan jointly

more importantly, a lot of what you write reveals that you are WAY in her frame instead of strongly in your own - work on that until you can get with a lawyer and athol

good luck

Betterdaysahead!

@SignorePillolaRossa yes I consulted a lawyer some time ago when this first started. What is A/B presentation?  You mean two have (2) different scenarios ready? I agree with being in her frame but I am slowly starting to pull away from that as I continue to work on myself.  

When we had the Phase 4 moment last week she said if we go the separation route she would prefer for us to work it out between us and not use lawyers which i thought was a good sign. 

SignorePillolaRossa

its only a good sign if you don't let her screw you over in the deal

Betterdaysahead!

Well it has been over a month since we had our phase 4 moment a couple of days after our 10th anniversary and I laid out the ultimatum that she try to get help about her sexual issues and hangups to which she agreed. Of course she did not take any action and did not act any different towards me at all other than giving me all the space I wanted to do whatever I basically wanted with no hassles.

She has been very pleasant and caring we went out to an event recently were she dressed up sexy, was touchy, had lingerie on etc.  We came home and I initiated after some time of not having done so and got rejected hard yet again. So still no real change.

I have has lots of coaching calls with Athol so right now I dont need lectures on what Phase I am in etc.  Sorry but just want to put that out there.  Athol clearly knows the whole story and agrees we are in Phase 4/5.
   
On Wednesday I sent her an email as this was agreed with Athol likely the only way to likely approach her with details about a seperation without her blowing up at me as she had done in past.  I did just that and was loving, understanding, but direct in the email on laying out a plan about our next steps, who gets what etc.  Well needless to say that she is very pissed at me and does not want to talk and only responds with one word answers for the most part. 

I asked her what about the whole teamwork philosophy she preached months ago know matter which way this all ends up. Those were her words. She said all that went down the drain with the email. 

Not sure exactly what to do now. I guess just give her space and try to be strong and resilient through this upsetting time? If I press the issue I think she will use it to her advantage and try to find a crack in my armour. I feel like saying you did not leave me any choice and ask her if she had made any appointments to address her issues. Which I know she did not.  I have a therapist appointment tomorrow was thinking of inviting her! 

Any thoughts appreciated on how to handle the next 48 hours+.

LadyOrTheTyger

Do you have a divorce lawyer?

Betterdaysahead!

@LadyOrTheTyger ;Yes, but during ultimatum discussion she said she would prefer to handle between us and avoid involving lawyers. 

Eightbit

I just read this entire thread and honestly at this point I'd stick with what athols advice has been.  His view is completely different from what I got out of reading this thread, so there must be much more going on here than I'm seeing.  I'd guess the same goes for anyone else who's following this thread as well.

fordsvt

I'm really starting to wonder if another man is in the background here?? Have you ruled this out?? She's not worried at all and that's odd and kind of shocking.

Your giving her Phase 4 with Athol's help here and it's having no effect? You have three kids, marriage, and a life and this is having no effect. I phase 4'rd my wife twice. Once by accident and once with purpose. Both times she cried, got scared, vowed to try harder, didn't want me to leave, didn't want a sexless marriage. etc....... Results.

You've been at this for 7 months. Either you need more time on the Map or she's involved elsewhere.

Angeline

Or, she's checked out because HE is the one who previously stepped out on the marriage. 

Sometimes that isn't recoverable. He may well be at Phase 4, but so might she. OP only comes here every couple of weeks to vent. I see no red flags that she is cheating.

Betterdaysahead!

I do not think she is cheating. We have had one or two good discussions recently since the initial Phase 4 ultimatum moment in early October.  Some of them were deeply personal and she realizes that she needs to resolve her problem of low libido and sex drive as well as no orgasms. She agreed to go to a therapist that was recommended to me and I spoke to her and gave her the information earlier this week.  If she acts on it or not is another story.

When I gave her the initial ultimatum and the subsequent discussion she was very emotional and cried but not in an I need to have you back sort of way.  It is a realization that I have finally  and truly come to the end of my rope and patience on waiting for her to come around and change thing and that there is a strong likelyhood of our family spliting up.  She admitted that I have changed dramatically from what I used to be like but she is still unsure if she can trust the change. I told her i totally understand and did not expect she would after 7-8 months given perhaps the years of past behaviours. I also told her that I have beat myself up and she has beat me up enough for this and we need to move on.  I told her that I would be waiting to wait as long as it took for her if she was willing to get help and work on this with me.  If she did not than our answer is pretty clear. I even laid out a separation proposal about a week ago in some detail.  This made her flip and realize how serious I was.  These steps bye the way have been agreed to and part of the coaching with Athol. 

It is now 7 months no sex.  I have one foot out the door no matter how much I love her. I am no longer initiating as this is just depressing and -1 as Athol says for both of us. I am also going out more with friends and only scheduling the must attend type friends and family gatherings but not making an effort for date nights etc..

I am attracted to other women and as I have gone through this MAP I am getting even more attention now.  Temptations is hard to resist but I have been good. I go out for occasional social drink and chats but nothing more.  I realize this in and of itself is perhaps a betryal of trust but honestly it is nice to have some female attraction attention vs. the zero I get at home and being lonely and by myself after 8:30pm every night.  

I have only watched porn 2 x in over 45 days. A had a streak break at around 30 days or so. Started again etc.  FAP only 2-3 times over this entire period as well.  NO other outside stimulation.  Body fat down to around 15%. Lots of meditating, reading, journaling. 

markymapo

Essentially you are in phase 5 now. You laid out expectations and if she follows through on therapist then great...but you are still in phase 5. 

Just because she goes to therapist does not mean one ioda she will start fucking you like bunnies. 

So  she sees the change but unsure she can trust the change. Does that excuse go on for another 7/8 months of no sex? Nope, ball is in her court to start telling the truth, if she's not attracted to you then at least have the "balls" to let you move on to a woman who is. Instead of letting you live in a tortureous/sexless marriage. 

Hopefully the therapist tells her this. 

Eightbit

Phase four isn't an ultimatum.  It's supposed to be a statement of expectations.  I'm still confused as to exactly what is going on.

Betterdaysahead!

Well after almost 8 months of no sexual activity at all  my wife asked me if I wanted to have a shower tonight and have some fun. I am actually nervous as hell. I'm not so sure that she really wants to vs just doing it to please me. Not sure how to react. She said that she was going to see a sex therapist in the new year to see why she has so low libido, no orgasms etc. 

my my fear is that if we do it tonight then she we somehow feel things will be ok regardless of whether she seeks help or not and I really don't think it will be. At least for me.  A little confused how to play this out. Any advice appreciated. 

RebuildingHusband

If she said "do you want to have a shower tonight and have some fun", fuck her. 

Betterdaysahead!

@RebuildingHusband I guess your saying dont over think it and what may lay ahead and just have fun. 

PhoenixDown

You gonna answer those questions from November, or nah? 

Betterdaysahead!

i think I feel more hurt now then I did before. It felt cold and like both of us were completely un attached to the sexual encounter we just had. After 8 months you think there would be a few more hugs, kisses maybe an I love you. I tried...but just didn't feel the reciprocation so stopped. I actually just left the shower right away when we finished and went to watch tv. Felt I could not be near her. She came in before going to bed and said thank you and gave me a kiss good night. I am not sure if this is sometimes typical after a long abstinence but in my mind I ne'er thought Ina million years it would be that way. 

Very confused. I love her so much but now more then ever I realize that it is not about the sex but just about being with someone that truly shows love and emotion towards me and that I can share the same with. I don't ever see this getting better. I have mapped hard and have improved on manY levels with my wife, kids, fitness, work...but that is not going to change the situation I explained above. 

RebuildingHusband

So you haven't played basketball in 8 months. Not even picked up a ball. You lace up and hit the court for the first time in nearly forever. It feels ok but you're definitely out of practice.

In that scenario, I get my ass out on the court more and work on my skills until I'm crossing over fools and draining fade away jumpers. You take your ball and go home and refuse to play again because you weren't all-pro in your first attempt. 

Sex and intimacy are like anything else in your life. You've got to practice and work to have that "connection". It's not just gonna happen. Take this for what it was worth- a positive. Assume good intentions. Do you think she's gonna want to fuck the guy who runs away and sulks just because he didn't get porn star fireworks sex? That's on you, bro. Put on your big boy pants and do the hard work. 

Angeline

Kiche said:

Trying to understand things a little better so I'm wondering,

How much are you drinking? You say you need to cut 'drastically'? Are you having these convos with her after a couple of drinks?

What did she say when she found out you had an EA and were also getting rub and tugs? 

You should call @Athol again...
 

PhoenixDown said:

You gonna answer those questions from November, or nah? 

Betterdaysahead!

@kiche not drinking very much anymore and no I am not having those conversations after a couple drinks. I used to and that was part of the problem. 

She was obviously  hurt when she found out about the EA and rub and tug. I think more so she has always been hurt by my previous butt hurt approach to lack of intamacy and accompanying sarcastic or hurtful comments. All of which I have worked very hard on stopping over the last several months. 

@Eightbit ;In my coaching with Athol we have specifically determined at some length that I am in Phase 4. You are correct I stated my expectations but did so under coaching with the ultimatum that if they were not met that I am prepared to leave the relationship. 

@RebuildingHusband totally get your point. I agree but it was not about thenpotn star sex for me. Sex was actually ok. Got a BJ as well all good. It is just the intamacy part on her end. She is not a very touchy/feely person and I am. She does need to cuddle in bed afterwords as an example and I would like to. She just seems to want to get it over with. This is what I hate. Mind you i did give her a nice massage in coach before the shower. I guess you are right. Take it for a positive that she is trying. That said, we still have a long way to go.