Husband turned down sex?!?

amblrgirl

So, hubby comes downstairs from work and says he is going to take his car for an oil change. To give a little more context for this conversation, I have just finished doing my makeup and hair and haven't gotten dressed yet. So I'm wearing a t-shirt and lace cheekies - that's it.  

While he's getting his keys and other stuff together, we chat for a minute. I talk about my workout and how yesterday's session with my trainer left my shoulder and upper back a little sore and I need to learn to roll out those muscles. Then I smile and tease, "unless my husband wants to give me a massage!" He just laughs and starts toward the door, then stops for a goodbye. I hug him and he says he'll give me a massage, but not right now. I said, "Not right now? While I'm wearing almost nothing?" (I'm still using my teasing, playful frame). He said, "I know where that leads." Gave me a kiss and left. 

WTF? What's wrong with where that leads?!? Seems like the oil change could have waited an hour.

Scarlet

You've established yourself as low value within the marriage, so he can take or leave you.

If he wants sex later, refuse.  Shrug and say he missed his chance.  Men need to work a bit for sex.  

Have you read the Mindful Attraction Plan book? 

UnBetaMe

Sounds like he's got some good push/pull game going. 

Maybe he wants to be a productive, busy, valuable, attractive man and get the oil change over with so he can focus on giving you a breathtaking massage later, followed by a thorough pounding?

You wouldn't want to be married to one of those unattractive lazy bear husband's now would you?

Scarlet

She already posted a triage.  http://marriedmansexlife.vanillaforums.com/discussion/13272/wife-feeling-lost-triage/p1

He IS a lazy bear husband and he does NOT have any push/pull game going.  

(As an aside, this is why it is helpful to just have one thread - the information gets so scattered otherwise and advice goes off the mark.)

amblrgirl

Thanks for linking the triage @Scarlet. Good point about the single thread to avoid confusion.

I read the MAP book and have been MAPping. I've been working on all my reds and started working out with a trainer twice a week and on my own 4-5 times a week as well.

But I do think I rated myself too low in my triage. Now that I've been going places alone, without my kids (like the gym), I actually pay attention to how people respond to me, and I get eyed more than I realized before. I rated myself lower because of my abs, but that only shows when I'm naked, so when I'm dressed, I look pretty good - at least a 7. And I have girl game - makeup, nice clothes, and I've started wearing my hair down more instead of throwing it in a ponytail all the time. Hubby also told me that his friends say he married the hot chick. So, I think I'm reasonably attractive. 

As for today's lack of action, when he got home, he said it was the middle of the day and he didn't have time to do that in the middle of the day (we've totally done that in the middle of the day before, several times). I tell him no problem. Now I'm wearing skinny jeans, wedge heels, and a shirt that shows just enough cleavage to make a man re-evaluate his choices. But definitely with @Scarlet - no sex for him tonight.

I'm wondering if maybe some other things are coming into play here, too. I had a conversation with him over the weekend (I know, STFU, but I didn't). He is going through a job transition and is trying to decide what to do. I told him that I would like to figure out what options would allow him to be free in the evenings so he's not going back upstairs to work every night after the kids are in bed. I told him it was lonely spending almost every night by myself. I also told him that I wanted our family and our marriage to thrive, and that to do so, we needed more leadership from him. He told me he doesn't know what I want him to do and asked what my expectations were. I recommended MMSL Primer. He said he would check it out, but that his personality isn't going to change no matter what he reads. He said he thought he was already the leader. I told him I thought he deferred to me in most things and that I initiated most of the things that happened in our life.

Then we talked about sex (I know, I can hear people yelling STFU). I asked if he thought I was generally attractive and if he was attracted to me. Yes on both. I asked why he wasn't all over me all the time. He said he thought he groped me a lot, I said he must be doing that in his head. He did say that after being rejected so much earlier in our marriage, that he thought I just had a low libido and so he decided that he would just wait for me to be in the mood rather than try to have sex I didn't want to have. He said sex was just one part of our relationship, so he decided to just wait for me to want it. I told him I wanted him to lead in the bedroom, too, and that I was interested in him being more dominant in that area.

So, tough conversation, but the next day he did initiate and I gave him the BJ of a lifetime. Not bragging, but seriously it was a production and it was all about him. The night after that, I initiated and we had sex. I asked for some rougher stuff than we typically do and he went with it, though I think he may have felt a little weird about it. He's also been grabbing my ass more in general, so he is making an effort there. All of that is pretty good for us, so I thought things were okay after our talk. But the next night he had to work and then the following night, he stayed with me, but we both just sat in the same room staring at our smartphones all night. Then today, I initiate, he rejects.

I didn't really connect today's rejection with any of this before, but now I'm wondering if the conversation or the request for a little rougher action has caused an issue. Or maybe he is trying to game me and he's just not super skilled at it yet. Or maybe there is an attraction issue or low value issue I need to work on.

amblrgirl

Also, I do know he's feeling pressure with the job change. There are several possibilities for how it's going to go, but uncertainty about where that will put us financially - could be a little better or could be a little worse. Nothing that would cause a huge issue, but obviously, we would rather go up than down.

JellyBean

You trained him that he can neglect you sexually, and you will offer up hot sex and BJs, and all he has to do is listen to you gripe about not getting enough sex, and then in turn he blames you for his lack of initiation because of your long-past rejection of his sexual advances. 

This is is a very familiar story for many of us here. This is likely recoverable but you're going to have to get a lot more selfish and less understanding. 

BrianC

Is it possible he is just really dense? I mean you were flirting with him, but to some guys "give me a massage" means "give me a massage" and not "take me you big stud!"  We can be painfully literal.

LazyAlpha

BrianC said:

Is it possible he is just really dense? I mean you were flirting with him, but to some guys "give me a massage" means "give me a massage" and not "take me you big stud!"  We can be painfully literal.

When I first read the story, I also concluded that being asked to give a message was likely taken literally.  He may actually have been reacting a bit negative to that offer of trading a message for sex (or for nothing as has likely been the case in his past).  So instead of being a beta schlub and dropping his plans to give you a message, he did what he wanted to get done.

One of the things I personally struggle with is that having been frustrated by my lack of ability to depend on sex that I actually react somewhat negatively on the rare occasions when my wife initiates or overtly hints.  It just feels too much like she is doling out eye-dropper amounts of sex on her schedule just to maintain control.

Also, guys need a 2x4 to the head.  Instead of suggesting a message, just grab his cock, pull it out of his pants, and swallow it or jump on it.

JellyBean

^^^^ This is terrible advice for a woman with a Lazy Bear husband. 

Angeline

Does he have any erectile dysfunction or PE issues? Because often when a guy turns down a blatant offer for sex, it's because he's unsure if his dick will work when put on the spot. 

Are you sure the video games are all actually gaming and not porn? 

Mongrel

STFU about sex applies more to males than females in my opinion. I think men and women react differently about such talks. Others may disagree. In your case it may well have been a necessary conversation.

"He did say that after being rejected so much earlier in our marriage, that he thought I just had a low libido and so he decided that he would just wait for me to be in the mood rather than try to have sex I didn't want to have. He said sex was just one part of our relationship, so he decided to just wait for me to want it."

After years of rejections (due to my beta-ness, mostly) I can understand your H's reluctance to do initiations or get mentally ramped up for sex. I can't count the times Mrs M 'promised' that sex was on the table that night only to get home and find out she wasn't into it or had some very important game of Words With Friends to play. It tends to make us very gun-shy.

" I asked for some rougher stuff than we typically do and he went with it, though I think he may have felt a little weird about it."

I went through this also. Mrs M, after 15 or so years of marriage, at last confessed to me a desire to have her hair pulled and be treated rougher in bed.  It was a huge mental hurdle for me to get over to not feel like I was being disrespectful (we have a whole thread on this somewhere). I know my early attempts at caveman-ish-ness were pathetic, weak and clumsy. It took me awhile to get over it but now I can pound her like a jackhammer and not worry about it unless she tells me it hurts.   That doesn't happen overnight though. 

amblrgirl

JellyBean said:

You trained him that he can neglect you sexually, and you will offer up hot sex and BJs, and all he has to do is listen to you gripe about not getting enough sex, and then in turn he blames you for his lack of initiation because of your long-past rejection of his sexual advances. 

This is is a very familiar story for many of us here. This is likely recoverable but you're going to have to get a lot more selfish and less understanding. 

Ugh. I thought I was rewarding him for initiating, but I can see how he might just think he got a lot of fun without having to put forth much effort.

I did reject him pretty strongly for awhile earlier in our marriage. There was one point when I didn't even want to hold his hand anymore. That was several years ago and I've been much sweeter and appreciative for the last few years, though I still didn't really care about the sex until recently.

So what do you mean by being more selfish and less understanding? I'm not really sure what to do except work on my Reds and hope he eventually falls in line.

amblrgirl

BrianC said:

Is it possible he is just really dense? I mean you were flirting with him, but to some guys "give me a massage" means "give me a massage" and not "take me you big stud!"  We can be painfully literal.

I'm pretty sure he knew I was offering sex. I specifically mentioned how I was wearing very little, and he specifically said that he knew where that (a massage) would lead.

amblrgirl

LazyAlpha said:

One of the things I personally struggle with is that having been frustrated by my lack of ability to depend on sex that I actually react somewhat negatively on the rare occasions when my wife initiates or overtly hints.  It just feels too much like she is doling out eye-dropper amounts of sex on her schedule just to maintain control.

It does feel a little unfair for me to suddenly demand that he get on board now that I'm into sex again when I wasn't willing to do the same for him earlier in our marriage.  I feel a little bad to have changed my mind about what I want and then expect him to catch up. I struggle with my guilt over that, but at the same time, I think we could both be even happier together if our sex life improved. We both love each other very much and want the other one to be happy. I think this would be good for us, but I recognize that it is a lot for him to process.

amblrgirl

Angeline said:

Does he have any erectile dysfunction or PE issues? Because often when a guy turns down a blatant offer for sex, it's because he's unsure if his dick will work when put on the spot. 

Are you sure the video games are all actually gaming and not porn? 

No major issues that I know of. He does tend to O quicker when we try more stimulating positions and I know that bothers him. But I've told him before that we can deal with that by using those positions more so that he can gain more control in them. I've been careful to never act disappointed if he comes a little early. There are other ways to take care of me if his penis needs a rest.

I guess I can't be 100% sure that the video games are not porn, but I really believe what he's telling me about this. I've never expressed having a problem with porn and he's typically pretty honest when I ask him a direct question (he answered that he masturbates 2-3 times a week, but only uses porn a couple time a month).

amblrgirl

Ms_Fit said:

I posted this on your other thread. But if he's got a lot of stress going on right now with work and what not he may not be able to switch it off.

Even with how great things are generally with me and my husband, he still has a hard time just switching gears towards sex if I surprise him like that mid-day.  Sometimes he can just turn it on and go with it and other times he just can't.  And before we got to this place he may not have realized I was seriously initiating. He would have just seen that interaction as flirting. 

Just read your post on the other thread and I'm definitely going to look up some of your old posts. It sounds like you were in a very similar position to what I am facing now.

As for trouble switching gears, it's possible. But he's never had an issue interrupting work for sex in the past, and he did spend some time getting an eye-full before I came onto him. 

Hearing that he may have thought I was simply flirting and not initiating when I asked him to put his hands on me while wearing so little makes me want to bang my head against a wall. Seriously, if that is really where he is at, I'm going to need to buy myself a toy to keep me going because this is going to be a long road. 

Before my husband, I had a year-long relationship with a very passionate Alpha guy. He couldn't keep his hands off me and I loved it, but he broke my heart. So after that, I was attracted to guys who were his complete opposite. Enter, my husband. Now I have a kind, caring, smart, loyal man who can't understand that if a girl is wearing her undies and asks you to touch her, it means it's time to throw her on the bed? I'm gonna lose my mind.

Buckbypj

 (he answered that he masturbates 2-3 times a week, but only uses porn a couple time a month).

I'm still learning myself, but I'd say he is a little gun shy.
He obviously has a regular urge, so if he's not taking up an offer, he either doesn't want to get hurt, or he is getting enough relief without needing you. 
Both related to past experiences.
Porn really can be very damaging to a relationship.
Each time there is one less with you.

Jek

Huh?
Maybe he just has a lot of shit on his mind and needs a few successes, like changing the oil, before he can man up?

If my life was a bit sideways, and I was unsure of the future, and things werent going well at anything I tried, it would be a bad time to think I was Pavlov's dog for pussy, lol.  Ring a bell?  Idk

You didn't get rejected, you just didn't get your expectations met.  If things were reversed, we would be telling the guy to keep walking out the door and go to the gym.  It isnt rejection, it is timing.

The advise that you should deny sex later for a "rejection" seems incorrect, especially if he has performance anxieties.

HopeAndHardWork

I dunno.  I think I would have told him "your loss" then stripped and got busy and loud with Mr. Buzzy in the middle of the bed, but I'm kinda subtle that way .  The message is simple.  His wife is a sexual person who wants and enjoys sex and she's going to get it with or without him.  He can choose wether or not it's going to be with him, but he will no longer have the excuse of "his wife just really not wanting it so why put himself out there."  This won't work if he actually does have low testosterone, only if he's afraid of rejection or just being lazy.  If he makes an initiation and/or joins you, great, have a good time.  If not, have a good time without him anyway.  If he is indifferent to you doing something like that, then I would suspect low T or an overuse of porn (which would dull his desire for his wife 'cause she's way more effort than jacking off to porn).

It's a tough line to walk.  You want to get across the idea that you want sex and won't reject him as long as he's making an effort, but you don't want to be throwing yourself at him and giving him whatever he wants with no effort or risk on his part.  I was in this situation initially with a very gun shy husband (NOT low testosterone).  I teased the heck out of him at every available opportunity but never actually initiated anything.  If he went for it and did a decent initiation, he got very hot sex.  If he sat there and did nothing, he got nothing.  Eventually, he did get it in his head that decent initiation got him hot sex pretty much every time and no effort or very indifferent initiation got him nothing every single time.  The quantity and quality of his initiations have gotten much, much better but it was a slow process.

Jek

The OP joined 3 weeks ago, is that enough time to expect change in an 11 year marriage and a relationship for 15+ years?  I'm not sure...