Pen_and_Sword's MAP

Ray

@Pen_and_Sword do you know your T levels?  I'm in a very similar situation that I've mused about in my gold MAP thread.  I, too, decided that I may be responsive but I'm also carefully monitoring my T.  I'm not deathly low but I'm certainly not optimal.  The thing is, I don't want to be responsive and I'm currently working with an endocrinologist, targeting thyroid function first and then perhaps TRT.  

It's something to think about.  I would recommend getting your T tested to at least form a baseline.  

BlueWolf

@Pen_and_Sword   I can really relate to that. My flavours are like yours. Verkar much responsive and I prefer to be dominant in bed, but I also like some sensual flavour added sometimes.  And yes it seems to have that effect on everyday life as you describe for me as well. In mycket case it is both att curse and a blessing. I have considered the possibility of low The but doft believe that's the case,  havent tested though. It is a realised pain to get a test were I live and so mandra other signal of good T levels shows in my daily life som I have ruled that out for now att least.  

BlueWolf

Sorry for the bad spelling, blaming my stupid tablet for that....

monkeydog

I am the opposite. I am totally horny, 24-7. I'm 49. I could fuck 2x a day, easy. This may be why mrs. Monkey is like a deer in headlights. I am initiating all the time and she's like a deer in headlights. Not really working, but I am pushing on.

Pen_and_Sword

Thanks, @Ray - I don't know my levels but, like @BlueWolf, I have enough reasons to believe they're not the issue. 

And yeah, @monkeydog, I get it. You and most other guys. Many days, I could go for 2x a day also - during the day, if something stressful didn't turn me off. It doesn't take much more than a glimpse of something hot to get me going. But without that glimpse, it's less likely the engine will fire up. 

My wife has made comments to the effect that I always want sex, except when I don't. This probably reflects cycles when I'm stressed and tired enough that I don't have the energy to fire us both up, for as long as a couple weeks at a time. 

However, as @Athol_Kay says, "The bull doesn't complain that the cow didn't initiate." If I find myself opening the fridge, I'll probably eat something even if I wasn't really hungry before-hand. If I develop a habit of appreciating and cultivating sexy interactions, I'll probably find myself "hungry" more often.

My current challenge is to settle this as a long-term, Outcome Independent habit of enjoyment for it's own sake, without using outside sources. (I've determined they're a short-term gain, long-term loss proposition.) It may be part of the Chain of Seduction, but I almost need to think of it as a separate entity - an ends unto itself, or I fail to be OI. This is something @Angeline has said more than once about drive-bys, so maybe I'm just starting to understand the role they have to play in my own life.

Ray

I hear you and it's entirely possible T is not an issue for you.  But, information is power and T levels should be part of annual blood work, in my opinion, as part of baselining and trending, just like cholesterol and glucose.  For the record my T levels were <500 last year and I could still sexually perform at the drop of a hat...I've never experienced an ED episode.  But, my overall libido was low enough that I became concerned.

amblrgirl

I think it's worth getting tested. It's good information for you to have, and it's easy to get. You don't even need to see a doctor or get a doctor's order for the test. There are clinics that will do the test and email you the results within a few days. All you have to do is call and tell them you want the test. I think many of them will even do it for walk-ins (but you probably won't have to wait as long if you call ahead and make an appointment.)

ETA: My husband did one like this. $79, quick & easy. https://www.anylabtestnow.com/tests/testosterone-blood-test/

Pen_and_Sword

Monkeys for LAST Week

1. Get the morning workout routine going again. - DONE

2. Be mindful to maintain the ground I've made over the last year. - DONE; no major stumbles that I'm aware of. 

3. Do something specific and on-purpose to build RC, and something to build Attraction. - DONE Initiated a date for which I'll be leaving work early today, and focused on being fun + consistent with flirting. Wife has been feeling poorly, so a good week to strengthen the habit for its own sake.

Pen_and_Sword

Monkeys for This Week

1. Bring cheerful, positive energy to family meal-times and bedtime

2. Do something specific and on-purpose to build RC

3. Initiate on yellow at least once

Bonus: Try again to figure out wife's attraction flavors

Pen_and_Sword

Monkey Report:

It seems to take me 2 weeks+ to really work through a set of monkeys and think about new ones. But I hit all the ones above, and will probably recycle them for what's left of this week.

Next up, analysis from my bonus monkey. 

Pen_and_Sword

Pondering my wife's...
 

BRANDS OF ATTRACTION:

Notes:

I've never seen my wife give away attraction to anyone other than me. She has some kind of combination of not-thinking-about-people-that-way along with possibly a great poker face. She always got along better with guys, and I think that "type" of girl often is less demonstrative around guys? 

When she was most newly attracted to me, there was a lot of bubbly, happy cute smiles and a visible little shiver she got when I gave her a "meat stare," but no hair twirling, or staring, etc that I noticed.

I have done a lot of memory-searching for what I was like when we fell in love, trying to figure out what must have been good about my blue-pill self. I think the flavors shake out like this:  

Break-Down:

40% Leadership
- Athol says, "personal power, social status, highly effective"

That's not how I would ever have described myself, but I have always had ideas, strong convictions, and been able to articulate both. Based on my memory of my wife's recounting of how she became interested in me, I think she has always been tuned into the effect this had within my circle of influence, even when it was very small.

30% Smart
- Athol says, "creative, artistic, think of ideas and make them happen."

I was in a band. I was a writer. I could look at any old house for five minutes and have fifteen ideas for bringing it back to life or making it better.  

12% Physicality
- Athol says, "The better the guy's body looks, the more interested she is."

She grew up with round, sloppy men, and her only serious boyfriend before me was the same. She finds bulky unattractive, but muscles are good up to a point that I'll probably never exceed.

8% Stereotypical
- Athol says, "Man's man, rustic: beard/scruff, hunting, football, chopping wood."

She finds a classic look (jeans, buttoned flannel, stubble) "cute", and some stereotypical activities, but not others. Watching football, no. Playing football, yes.

5% Peacocking
- Athol says, "clothing, appearence, acessories; deliberate projection of high-value."

She likes when I dress sharp, but if a guy looks like he's trying, or thinks about it too much, it's a turn-off. I'm definitely maxed on this category. 

5% Impulsive
- Athol says, "not mindless foolishness, but skill/mastery in a higher-risk activity"

She is amused, sometimes impressed, by some of my stunts, but would consider it a DLV if I spent a lot of money on things that are only worth the adrenaline they provide.

Conclusions

Leadership is important, and I have to watch this one because, between work and being dad of a family, I can get leadership fatigue. I should probably re-phrase all my future monkeys from a leadership perspective, and keep talking at home about the fun leadership opportunities or events that happen at work.

If "smart" includes being creative, and working with ideas, then I'm probably doing well with this. It's important to remember not to stop reading, or working away at my other projects, since they're not just self-care, but a form of attraction-building.

In the other areas, I mostly need to just maintain. Adding more Peacocking or much more Impulsive could reduce attraction. I think the right amount of Stereotypical stuff comes pretty naturally. Entropy is working against me on Physicality, so I have to keep pushing for progress at that one.    

Finally, given that I'm leading much better as a result of my MAP, why isn't my wife tearing my clothes off (or her clothes off) at every opportunity?

1. She's often tired.
2. Sometimes she's sick.
3. She has a high need for Relationship Comfort measured, unfortunately, in Quality Time.

I have noticed that she's yellow a lot more than I may have realized, and an initiation + good OI (which I'm pretty good at, actually) often (though not always) results in her being green later.

Pen_and_Sword

I don't think I've mentioned this on the forum before, but since about a year ago, every couple months I've cycled through 1-3 weeks at a time where I have nightmares every night in which I try very hard to handle (imaginary) logistical or relational issues, and somehow make things very much worse. They're dreams, so they don't completely make sense, but they are so vivid that I wake up under a cloud, with a vague feeling of guilt and the sense that I suck at life.

Then I have to force myself through the crap feelings. I sometimes catch myself wondering, "Why do I feel like it's been a bad day?" and there's no answer except for the nightmares. 

Weird, right? Still, I think I'm handling them pretty well. I've told my wife it happens, but I think I've mentioned it three times at the most, never complaining or acting weak.

Anyway, last night I got a text from the dysfunctional former mentor I've talked about, and when DW said she was sorry I had to deal with him, I said it was ok, that I've been having the nightmares, wondered if I should reach out to him in some way, and had decided against it. I figured it was better if he was the one reaching out to me.

DW got worried, and asked me a couple times if I was ok. She pointed out that part of the reason our (collective) relationship was so toxic is that, he (and sometimes his wife) treated her worse than they treated me, but I cared more about his approval than DW's feelings. She's not wrong, and no wonder she becomes afraid if I start ruminating on it again.

CMN for sure, and not news, but it was a good reminder that I have to stay strong on this one.

It IS hard sometimes to remember that the same wannabe mentor who generally tries to be encouraging to me almost always acts grumpy about everything DW says, when he's not pointedly ignoring her presence. Her personality really rubs him the wrong way, and he's kind of an asshole to anyone he doesn't understand.

I really seem to have a blind spot here. I should feel more naturally angry and protective of her, but the emotions aren't there. Anyway, it was an insightful moment last night, and will go on my list of monkeys (coming soon) for the next 10 days or so.

Pen_and_Sword

I hesitate to make posts like this; I don't really think my wife would like it, no matter how anonymous, and I try to think about how she would feel if she ever found me here. But I've found that writing down the good stuff helps me remember to be optimistic and builds good energy. And it's safer from accidental discovery here, than anywhere at home. Also, with all the necessary-but-difficult posts we all share, I have found that I really appreciate forum members who post positive reports, keeping the forum from being emotionally draining. So, about my week:

---

I did a much better at being a funny, good-but-not-safe, masculine/pervy force around my wife. For whatever reason, I found it not too difficult to provide relationship comfort while letting her know I was attracted to her. 

After at least one rejected initiation, plus at least one pre-emptive apologetic rejection (she wasn't feeling well), I initiated on yellowish-green on Thursday, and got happy maintenance sex. I didn't last nearly as long as I wanted to, but remained cheerful and acted like it was the best thing that had happened to me in a week. +1 to momentum :-) 

I dialed way back on the amount of lust I communicated the next day, but I didn't go all squishy beta, either. By Sat morning, she was commenting how I'd "been on simmer," and by Sat afternoon, she was shaking her bottom at me from across the front garden. Unheard-of, I tell you!

Saturday night, she pre-emptively told me she had a headache, and it was clear that she was expecting an initiation, but doubtful she could keep up. I cheerfully told her that we should "take the night off, then," and see how she felt the next day; that "I'll feel you real good to check."  She laughed.

When I got out of the shower, she was wearing lingerie and heels. "I still have a headache, but sometimes this makes it better."

Then she wanted me to tell her what to do. She asked "So what are you thinking [you want to do]?"

In the past, I've known she wanted to play, but my brain is so dumb/male, all I can think of is groping, more groping, then straight to business. 

This time, I laughed, and said, "At the moment, I'm 10% just kid-in-a-candy shop!" - followed by pulling her in for an alpha kiss and grope. I was thinking as best I could given the drop in blood supply to the brain, when she volunteered "I can walk..." and strutted away across the room, then back. I made some (in?)appropriate comments, and when she got back, had her bend over and put her hands on the bed so I could admire her. That was good, but I think I panicked too much. I could have had her twirl and walk some more, and spend more time having her bent over and stretched. Savoring it more would have been pretty alpha. Still, not bad for a recovering Nice Guy.

- Side Note - I need to get a better vocabulary of compliments. She usually flinches when I use dirty talk, and does better if she says it herself, but I really oughtta' do better than "Your skin feels so nice," or "I love the muscle tone in your legs." Sigh. I'm supposed to be GOOD with words.... 

Then, I almost choked. After three tries (WTF?) I managed to say, "Can I have you on your knees?" I know, I know. But at least I expressed a preference, and she went for it enthusiastically, during which I took her top off. After that, I was pretty much out of ideas, but she moved us in front of the mirror, where we made out, petted and, once I finished undressing her, started holding her hands above her head while having her from behind. Unfortunately, I started to lose it just as she started to moan, so I turned her around, and growled, "Get on the bed," and took her to pound-town.

Pretty sure she came, but she's made it very clear that she doesn't care about an O, and even thinking about it is a DLV - so I didn't ask.

All of this is an entire pay-grade higher than my previous game, ever. It looks, however, like I have a lot of room for getting better. I'm excited and a little daunted as it's clear now that the consummation link of the chain offers as much opportunity as the others. Still gonna' call this a huge win!

MONKEYS:

1. Take every leadership opportunity offered (make decisions when asked); focus on leading with positive energy at mealtimes, bedtime, and chore-time.

2. Talk freely about "smart stuff" - reading, writing, music, work, etc.

3. Display mental toughness regarding former mentor, and provide ample Relationship Comfort to DW 

4. Be a funny, outrageous flirt, initiate (even on yellow) at least once 

Pen_and_Sword

Last night, after a fairly wide-ranging discussion about mate-guarding oneself (she brought it up, based on a discussion with a friend), she initiated!

Her desires for this time were different than last time, and I know for sure I did a good job. 

Another +1 for the marriage!

Tennee

Outstanding my Brother.

Pen_and_Sword

Thanks, @Tennee.

I once read somewhere that good sex doesn't make a good marriage, but it's a sign of one. Encouraged by that thought.

Pen_and_Sword

Previous MONKEYS:

1. Take every leadership opportunity offered (make decisions when asked); focus on leading with positive energy at mealtimes, bedtime, and chore-time.

DONE-ish. 

See, this is what I get for sneaking two monkeys under one heading. The first bit, taking leadership opportunities, is really close to being a permanent habit. I even pulled my 6 yr old DS aside once and told him that when a lady (Mom for now) asks him to make a choice, they're asking him to be a leader, and it's most attractive to pick something instead of saying, "I don't care." 

The bringing energy at family times is going better, but not as well as I'd like. Being down with a cold for four days didn't help at all. 

2. Talk freely about "smart stuff" - reading, writing, music, work, etc.

DONE.

Officially accepted a side-hustle as Managing Editor of a niche online magazine. The extra income will move the needle a little, but the whole thing is much more of a morale booster.

3. Display mental toughness regarding former mentor, and provide ample Relationship Comfort to DW.

DONE! 

4. Be a funny, outrageous flirt, initiate (even on yellow) at least once

NOPE.

I um... flirted with this one, but being sick plus some work stress kept me down. And wife wasn't feeling great, so even the itiation didn't happen. I think that at this stage of life, we're a quality-over-quantity sex couple, and we're both pretty happy this way, 'cause the quality is super high. That's part of why I groaned when I saw someone's comment about "sex is always better at the beginning," on Middle Man's thread. "Always" is never accurate. ;-) BUT it's on me to make sure that our frequency doesn't slide too far. This monkey is going back on the board.

Pen_and_Sword

MONKEYS:

1. Lead with positive energy at mealtimes, bedtime, and chore-time. Give kids a break from constant lecturing - not every moment has to be a teachable moment. Too much can be harmful.

2. Be a funny, outrageous flirt, initiate (even on yellow) at least once

3. Facing a full/busy couple of weeks. Be present where you are; do the next right thing.

fordsvt

Nice work @Pen_and_Sword.  Sexy wear and heels on th bed says you're doing something very well.  I've found over time less pressure for sex on her allows her to think more freely.  I think most men here could go every day.  Most women not even close.  
Pick your spots and do drive bys all the time.  Don't talk abit sex.  Just do it and go for it without pressure and talking.  

Pen_and_Sword

Previous MONKEYS:

1. Lead with positive energy at mealtimes, bedtime, and chore-time. Give kids a break from constant lecturing - not every moment has to be a teachable moment. Too much can be harmful.

Meh. Hit and miss, and lots of miss. I've been tired, craving peace, quiet, and alone time. LOTS of alone time. It's hard to manufacture something like cheerful energy. I think preparation will be important. And I need to make this goal SMARTer.

2. Be a funny, outrageous flirt, initiate (even on yellow) at least once.

See above, and add wife being sick often, and I just didn't get this done. I think there were good moments, and I had very few full frame-fails, but no progress, yaknow?

3. Facing a full/busy couple of weeks. Be present where you are; do the next right thing.

This was apparently not specific and measurable enough to help. I survived, but I need to get some juice flowing in the near future. If I did a full MAP analysis, you could see that everything green stayed green or drifted yellow, and everything yellow stayed yellow. To re-start momentum, I think consistent preparation will be important.