Wife looking for new job - I need a reality check on my attitude about this

13

Comments

  • SignorePillolaRossaSignorePillolaRossa mid atlantic usaSilver Member Posts: 4,079
    edited July 2015
    Ps- i'd make sure the kids knew that mom was going back to school/work for her own sense of achievement /contribution to society/etc ... NOT because the family needs more money
    Sr. PR

    ============================
    sapere aude

    Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
    ============================
    AngelineshibarifrillyfunWinter
  • frillyfunfrillyfun East PodunkGold Women Posts: 3,386
    edited July 2015
    I think it's time for you to take over the finances, and budgeting.  She's not thinking rationally about any of it, and it's having a major negative effect on the family.

    You keep assuring her that everything is fine, but she's the one handling the money.  In previous posts you absolutely convinced me that you're fine, but I'm wondering if she's seeing your lack of day to day financial involvement as a reason not to trust you when you tell her you're not headed to the poor house anytime soon. 
    Frank_LondonHildaCornersseriouslyRico
  • HildaCornersHildaCorners Winter? You call *that* winter?Gold Women Posts: 3,377
    Your wife sounds like she's lost all ability to think rationally about money.

    From the taxes to thinking that earning $30k/yr will offset your loss of $xxx,xxx a year, to telling an 8 and 5 year old about how your family is "poor" ... she's lost all sense of money.

    Was she always like this, or is this a fairly new development? Have her daily spending patterns changed? If it's new, if she was an excellent money manager before, I'd be concerned about her mental health.

    Definitely tell the kids more about the family finances, but keep the discussion on a level they can understand. Many 5 year olds barely understand what money is, and an 8 year old doesn't have a good understanding, either. Your wife overwhelmed them, and scared them.

    The monopoly money is a good idea, so is re-framing the concept in terms they understand. "Kids, after paying the bills for our house, food, clothing and stuff like that, we save enough money for 10 trips to Disney a year. We don't spend it on that, because it's important to have lots of savings for when Mom and I get old, and for emergencies, and we want to go to other places too. My business isn't making as much money this year ... after paying all our regular expenses, I only earn enough to take 5 trips to Disney a year. That's not as much money, but it's still a lot, more than enough to pay for anything we decide to do." [Obviously, adjust the number of trips to suit, or replace Disney trips with buying a new car, or something else expensive and concrete.]

    Also ... if her money management skills are that poor, and her spending patterns are getting weird, I'd limit her access to joint funds, so the bulk of your money is out of her control, leaving enough to her to pay the usual expenses plus a small cushion.

    Enneagram 5w4.  I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.

    "I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
  • seriouslyseriously The mittenSilver Member Posts: 1,134
    WOW.  I think you've already gotten a lot of good advice here.  Here is my take.

    SPR - "I'm really disappointed ... " talk with wife.  Show her the numbers, show the path to retirement and savings.  Show the trends and projections.  Part of her "apology" to the kids will include her telling the kids that it is okay and she overreacted.  This will occur at family meeting.

    Family Meeting - Explain that everything is safe and sound.  Lots of fun to be had.  I have heard you use the word "fine" many times in this thread.  Get a new word.  It is likely holding some meaning for your wife.  Make sure the kids are feeling safe and sound too.  Do not show the kids the numbers.  A million dollars in assets is a crazy thing to kids.  They don't need that.  Then go do something fun as a family.  (picnic with the kids, putt-putt, etc.)

    ----

    Other thoughts.  Could your wife be getting some of this from investment performances, financial news, someone who IS going through this?  This is beyond a mild fling with anxiety.  It's controlling her rational thoughts.

    ----

    The finances need to be moved to your control.  Yes, it will take some time, but I'm sure you can squeeze it into your lunch hour once every other week.  

    ----

    I think you did very good job controlling your frame when discussing the incident.  Perhaps it is time to allow some controlled anger.  I don't recall you having anger issues from before.  If it doesn't hit home, the exclamation point can be SPR's "you have given me a lot to think about", with you leaving the house for a while.

    ----

    Good luck man.  I feel for you.  There was a time that I was driven by financial anxiety.  I never let it get to the kids, or my wife, but it scared me and I obsessed over it.  It was only a short round of Wellbutrin, and the willingness to let go of the fear and embrace the good around me that let me get away from it.  



  • ScarletScarlet Category Moderator** Posts: 7,542
    edited July 2015
    Angeline said:
    There's something missing here. This just isn't rational behavior if nothing has changed in day to day life and spending money. Plus there is her puzzling inabilty to give a ballpark income figure. I think an in depth look at your finances yourself is in order, ASAP.
    This.  What kind of budgeting technique do you use?  Do you have a designated, liquid emergency fund?  How involved is she?  Are there warning signs that income will drop again?  Are there upcoming major expenses?  Do you have good health insurance?  
    Speak your truth. 
    Elise
  • SignorePillolaRossaSignorePillolaRossa mid atlantic usaSilver Member Posts: 4,079
    Ben said:

    i would seriously consider a family meeting where i would put ALL the numbers on the table for everyone to see... [etc.]

    I agree with you how incredibly fucked-up it was for Mrs. Mars to rope their kids into her financial neuroses, but disagree that this is a good solution.  With older kids MAYBE, but 8-year-olds?  No.  If you want to teach an 8-year-old fiscal responsibility you give them an allowance and a piggy bank or something, not walk them through the household finances and where that places you in the American socioeconomic system.

    The whole reason it was a fucked-up move on Mrs. Mars' part is that it roped their kid into an argument between parents.  Attempting to "discredit" her with them just compounds that mistake.  The kids aren't a tug-of-war rope and they certainly aren't the judge of who's right about the family finances.
    @Ben - i respect your disagreement and certainly concede that my suggestion would not be appropriate in a well-functioning steady state scenario - but he finds himself in a suboptimal situation not of his making or choosing and, imo, as captain, needs to respond to steady the ship

    how would you suggest he undo the problem state that his wife has caused?
    what would you recommend he do to help his kids get back to 'good'?
    note - my intent is not for him to teach them fiscal responsibility in this little talk- my intent is for him to soothe them and provide them with a reality based assessment of the situation his wife introduced so poorly

    i can get behind any suggestion that accomplishes that for him
    Sr. PR

    ============================
    sapere aude

    Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
    ============================
    Angelinefrillyfun
  • seriouslyseriously The mittenSilver Member Posts: 1,134
    how would you suggest he undo the problem state that his wife has caused?
    what would you recommend he do to help his kids get back to 'good'?

    i can get behind any suggestion that accomplishes that for him
    @SignorePillolaRossa - With a united parental front.  Not an easy task when you and your wife are not united, but that is what needs to be done for this issue, for parenting in general, and for a healthy marriage.

    Mr. Mars has his work cut out for him, but the road hasn't been easy for any of us.
    Ben
  • SignorePillolaRossaSignorePillolaRossa mid atlantic usaSilver Member Posts: 4,079
    seriously said:
    how would you suggest he undo the problem state that his wife has caused?
    what would you recommend he do to help his kids get back to 'good'?

    i can get behind any suggestion that accomplishes that for him
    @SignorePillolaRossa - With a united parental front.  Not an easy task when you and your wife are not united, but that is what needs to be done for this issue, for parenting in general, and for a healthy marriage.

    Mr. Mars has his work cut out for him, but the road hasn't been easy for any of us.
    @seriously ;
    sure, that's optimal - no question ... we all wish that was the case ... but we need to respond to the world as it *is*, not as we wish it was

    he doesnt have a united front but he DOES have upset / misinformed kids that he needs to comfort and redirect towards rationality/reality

    if his kids had come home with age-inappropriate and irrational ideas that they learned from someone at school or from a crazy aunt at an extended family gathering, he'd want to move quickly to dispel their fears and replace it with rational reality-based thinking ... it is very unfortunate and complicating that the problematic vector is their mother, but he must respond nonetheless
    Sr. PR

    ============================
    sapere aude

    Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
    ============================
    Angelinestillasamountain
  • seriouslyseriously The mittenSilver Member Posts: 1,134
    seriously said:
    how would you suggest he undo the problem state that his wife has caused?
    what would you recommend he do to help his kids get back to 'good'?

    i can get behind any suggestion that accomplishes that for him
    @SignorePillolaRossa - With a united parental front.  Not an easy task when you and your wife are not united, but that is what needs to be done for this issue, for parenting in general, and for a healthy marriage.

    Mr. Mars has his work cut out for him, but the road hasn't been easy for any of us.
    @seriously ;
    sure, that's optimal - no question ... we all wish that was the case ... but we need to respond to the world as it *is*, not as we wish it was

    he doesnt have a united front but he DOES have upset / misinformed kids that he needs to comfort and redirect towards rationality/reality

    if his kids had come home with age-inappropriate and irrational ideas that they learned from someone at school or from a crazy aunt at an extended family gathering, he'd want to move quickly to dispel their fears and replace it with rational reality-based thinking ... it is very unfortunate and complicating that the problematic vector is their mother, but he must respond nonetheless
    @SignorePillolaRossa ;

    In case of a miscommunication, my first post from this morning was not directed at you.  I was recommending that FromMars follow part of your suggestion.  I was referring to your "I'm disappointed ..." talk.  I was not directing my comment to you.  

    With that said, did you read my whole post?  I suggested a path that includes both her compliance, and how to handle it if she doesn't comply.  Telling your wife that you are disappointed in her, with controlled anger, and walking away for a while, is as far as I am willing to show aggression.  Any more and it's abuse.  She is not thinking rationally, and reasoning has shown no results.

    The Captain of the ship rounds up the troops and puts the fears to rest.  The Captain does not go behind the First Offer's back to tell the troops that Mommy doesn't know what she is talking about.  "Here kids, look at this spreadsheet."  They are not going to process that.  M&M's and jars is about the best you can do with 5&8 years olds, for this kind of discussion.

    The best resolution to this, is FO/Mom telling the kids that she was upset and overreacted.  She did the damage, the clean-up will have the most credit coming from her.  I suggested a path, most of which, was in agreement with you.

    He has already "triaged" the issue with his kids.  He doesn't need to do it again.  THEY need to do it together now.
    I calmly explained to him that we are fine, we are earning plenty of money, we have enough money for trips and other fun things sometimes, and we're in absolutely no danger of losing our house.
    SignorePillolaRossaScarletBenAngeline
  • BenBen Silver Member Posts: 3,651
    edited July 2015
    seriously said:

    The best resolution to this, is FO/Mom telling the kids that she was upset and overreacted.  She did the damage, the clean-up will have the most credit coming from her.  I suggested a path, most of which, was in agreement with you.

    He has already "triaged" the issue with his kids.  He doesn't need to do it again.  THEY need to do it together now.
    I calmly explained to him that we are fine, we are earning plenty of money, we have enough money for trips and other fun things sometimes, and we're in absolutely no danger of losing our house.
    Quoting for agreement.  @FromMars already did everything that he can / needs to with respect to his kids.  They don't need to know details, they need to know "everything is okay and you have nothing to worry about."

    If Mrs. Mars had scared them with a ghost story, he wouldn't pull up a Snopes article showing that there's no objective scientific evidence of paranormal activity, he'd tell them, "not to worry, Daddy took an elective course on ghostbusting in college.  Ghosts are scared of Daddy now," and spend a couple nights humoring them by checking under their bed and in their closet for ghosts before bedtime.

    ---

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    Angelineshibaristillasamountain
  • SignorePillolaRossaSignorePillolaRossa mid atlantic usaSilver Member Posts: 4,079
    i understand where you folks are coming from and can agree to a point

    but i am a 'root cause eradication' kinda guy

    from the kids point of view, mom said one thing then dad says the opposite ... are the kids just expected to believe and be calmed by the parent who spoke last? c'mon kids arent stupid ... they have been dragged in and need to be actively lead out ... it is folly to think that they will just believe and be completely persuaded by whoever spoke to them most recently ... that approach turns the kids into ping pong balls with a false equivalency between what mom says irrationally and what dad says

    yes, its ideal if mom walks it back herself ... we have no indication that she is going to do that

    so now what? nothing? i would find that a difficult path to accept in the PR household

    Sr. PR

    ============================
    sapere aude

    Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
    ============================
    AngelineRico
  • seriouslyseriously The mittenSilver Member Posts: 1,134

    from the kids point of view, mom said one thing then dad says the opposite ... are the kids just expected to believe and be calmed by the parent who spoke last? c'mon kids arent stupid ... they have been dragged in and need to be actively lead out ... it is folly to think that they will just believe and be completely persuaded by whoever spoke to them most recently ... that approach turns the kids into ping pong balls with a false equivalency between what mom says irrationally and what dad says

    yes, its ideal if mom walks it back herself ... we have no indication that she is going to do that

    so now what? nothing? i would find that a difficult path to accept in the PR household

    I'm still agreeing with you.  Mr. and Mrs. need to be on the same page to get to the final resolution.  It is best for the kids, and them.  The first thing he should, and could do, is to dispel her concerns to the kids though, and he did.  Now come the hardest parts.  dispelling the concerns with her.

    ---

    As an aside, I wonder if the kids hear irrational stuff from mom at other times.  If they do, do they believe it?  Have they learned that does this at times?

    ---

    RE:  ROOT CAUSE - I don't just treat the symptoms, I treat the disease.  I will often do both at the same time.  I'm good like that.  ;)
    EliseSignorePillolaRossa
  • BenBen Silver Member Posts: 3,651
    edited July 2015
    Treating her concerns as deserving an in-depth, factual response validates them.  The children are a Chinese finger-trap: the harder you pull, the more tightly-wound they get.

    Doing nothing and allowing them to continue to believe the family is on the verge of bankruptcy would be bad.  Overwhelming them with a bunch of facts and figures and implicitly inviting Mrs. Mars to make counter-counterarguments would be worse.

    They won't "just" believe the last person they talk to.  They'll believe Mr. Mars when he tells them they've got nothing to worry about, and then he takes his son on their vacation and his son sees that the sky doesn't fall when they get back.  The fact that Mrs. Mars loses credibility with them is a natural consequence of her actions, not because Mr. Mars set out to undercut her.

    And Mrs. Mars dropping the !@#$ing subject while the kids are in earshot needs to be (and I believe already is) the hill Mr. Mars is willing to die on.  He can't control her irrational belief in the family's financial fragility, but he damn well can make sure she doesn't infect the kids with it.  Establish that boundary and make it clear that crossing it is grounds for immediate Phase 4.

    ---

    In the land of the blind, the one-eyed man is king.
    SignorePillolaRossa
  • ScarletScarlet Category Moderator** Posts: 7,542
    We really don't know that her concerns are baseless.  Something is going on. 
    Speak your truth. 
    EliseKattspartacusCarrotcake
Sign In or Register to comment.