Being a good parent?

forestleaf

I have to admit I am really struggling with parenting. 

I’ve worked really hard MAPing for the past couple months and am doing really great overall.  My health/weight are at a good place and improving day by day.  I feel like my marriage is stronger than ever.  I’ve cut out the negativity and manipulation with my H.  I’ve done a ton of projects around the house.  I’m soon starting a new job that is a major step up as well as a pay increase for me.  I’m doing a lot of soul searching, and some of my friends have commented on my appearance and say I’m “glowing.”  I feel like a stronger person.

However, I can’t seem to find those good positive feelings with my kids.  My three kids (ages 9, 6, 2) are overall good kids.  I find dealing with them to be a huge challenge.  I feel like I can’t stop negativity when it comes to them, although I’ve done a great job cutting it out in relation to my H.  I feel like every single little thing they do is a test.  I feel like I spend most of my time with them yelling or criticizing.  It’s little things, like asking them to brush teeth in the morning, or get dressed, or make sure they drink their milk, or asking them to not eat snacks before a meal, or stop wrestling because someone will get hurt, or yelling because someone did get hurt, or getting them to stop doing flips on the couch before something/someone gets knocked over, or could they please pick up their dirty laundry on the floor, etc.  Of course this is life, and this is parenting, but why can’t I find anything positive?  This isn’t nice Mommy asking politely; generally it’s yelling Mommy because I’ve repeated it so many times (I try to not repeat and enforce consequences for not listening, but…).  My H and I are working on this all the time, and he constantly reminds me to not lose my frame with them but I lose it constantly.  Why can I now maintain it with him when we argue but not with the kids?

My neurotic tendencies include control issues as well as I am a major germophobe (this came about when my newborn son got viral meningitis at 8 days of age from a regular cold virus).  If the kids are out and someone touches a doorknob and puts their fingers in their mouth I go completely insane (I don’t worry about dirt outside, just germs from other kids).  I maintain my own sanity by keeping a very tidy and mostly clean house.  So when the kids make messes or come inside and tromp mud everywhere, again, I lose my shit.  And of course being a control freak means that if my children refuse to listen (about everything and anything) then I freak out.  I understand theoretically that I can’t control them.  But I guess my issues are subconscious?  Some Reds are easy to stop.  Others are deep-seated, like control issues, I think.  How does one just STOP worrying about maintaining control?

Spending time with them: I have to admit I almost avoid it, perhaps because of my introversion.  I work very VERY hard to make sure they have what they need.  I am a super-organized mom.  We never miss appointments; we’re never late for school; they have everything they need.  But when it comes time to just sit down with them and hang out, that’s just not me.  I will read to them at night.  But my kids seem to want to spend all day just by my side.  I DO love my kids.  But the older they get, the more challenging they seem to get and the harder it is to deal with them.  When they were all babies they were basically easy to snuggle, to kiss, to nurse, and to love on.  Now that they’re bigger, their needs are different and complex, and often vary from my plans for them.  Next week I start my full-time job (I was part time before).  I have NO idea how this will all go.  I don’t know if I’ll be a better or worse mom if I’m working that much.  I feel like I suck right now. 

UnBetaMe

Hey... I hear you!  Maintaining frame with my kids (7 & 4.5) is a daily struggle.  This is something that I have to work on as well.  I recall several months ago that @Tiger had some really good advice regarding parenting.  I hope that he will chime in here and drop that knowledge again for us.

Things I am working on:

1.) No empty threats
2.) No yelling. Just calm and stern.
3.) No second,third,fourth chances. Consistent single warning and consequence - That's all.

soa2005

My wife is the primary caregiver and a lot of what you wrote is very similar to the things she often complains about.

The biggest improvement I've noticed came about after she implemented a chore chart. Basically it's a decorative chart that hangs in our kitchen and is updated daily with chores next to each child's name. We've found that if we start the day out with order our kids generally behave better. They know they are to be showered, teeth brushed, and chores completed by a set time (9am since its summer vacation). If they complete the task they get a star and a certain amount of stars equal a small gift or a fun event as a family. If they don't complete the chore they get a star taken away. 

The chore chart isn't a cure all but I've noticed a difference in their daily behavior since we've implemented it. 

Angeline

Can you set aside some time with a big dry erase board, and categorize the infractions? Try and think of every scenario and type of behavior. Some are top tier, danger danger behaviors, some are character issues, some are mischievous, some are tired and hungry issues. Decide on an appropriate level of response for each kid, for each level, and then stick to your program. Decide to be the adult, not just the biggest, loudest human in the room. 

What am I teaching?
What are they hearing? 
How will they remember this?
How will they remember me?

The easiest response is yelling. It takes effort and more creativity than you ever thought you were capable of to come up with appropriate, effective discipline (Note I said discipline vs. punishments).

KatherineKelly

We don't think about are own mortality much over the course of a day but with children I think everything they do can be viewed as resulting in injury or death.

I wonder sometimes if helicopter parents and negligent  parents sometimes are not simply two sides of the same coin, each coping with the terrible fear of "what if"

The responsibility of keeping yourself safe pales in comparison of keeping another safe, let alone three others.

One tries to control everything and the other gives up all control and goes into indifference.

Do your best and accept that your best will not be good enough no matter what you do.

Bad stuff is going to happen and most likely you will see it happen to your children.

Broken hearts mixed in with broken bones and if you die before them consider yourself blessed.

The other part of the problem is that most adults find children extremely annoying at some point.

Children are good at crazy  making and your mother probably consoled herself when you were a child by thinking your own children would make you pay like you made her pay.

I'm fairly certain this is why my mother is pressuring me to get married and have children

She wants revenge for what I put her through.

Choose your battles, teach consequences and F..k the rest

All children are in the moment, pleasure seeking, ego centric, minature beings that love to test adults.

Some remain that way for life.

You are not a bad mother but simply dealing with an alien life form.

Try to remember when you were an alien in the eyes of adults. It Helps!

redheaded_woman

3 days home from the hospital with my oldest and I was a train wreck trying to do things " right".  She wasn't eating the way the books and nurses said she was supposed to.

I took her to the pediatrician who is the dad of 5 adults and 127 grand kids. 

He gave me the best advice I could have ever asked for at that moment: "Mom, as long as you don't throw her out a 2nd story window it will be ok."

It was like he gave me permission to be human instead of my self imposed vision of super-mom.

frillyfun

I'd be really freaked out about illness if I'd had a newborn with meningitis too.  My view on childhood illness/injuries is that they're kind of a necessary evil.  Something bad will happen to your kids at one point in their lives, but if it happens when they're little you'll be there to hold them, and make them feel better.  It sets them up for being stronger adults, and better parents when they have kids.

im not saying to invite bad things into your life, but bad things will happen no matter how vigilant you are.  It at least gives them coping skills for later in life- they'll know what to do when their kid gets an ear infection, or pink eye, or how to take care of stitches.

When I was pregnant my midwife said that her grown son was insinuating that perhaps they had made some mistakes with them while they were growing up.  She said "you have a master's degree, and a job.  That means you can afford therapy.   Tell it to a therapist. Your father and I did the best we could"

I always try to have something good planned for DS.  If he's good we do the cool thing.  If he's not then we stay home.  I've been very consistent with that, and always honest with him so he knows that when I say something it's the absolute truth.

I'm also big on redirecting behavior instead of just saying "stop" all the time.  It gives them an example of an appropriate thing to do rather than the bad thing they're choosing to do in the moment.  I rarely say stop or no...it's always something like "hey why don't you play with xyz toy, or how about we do this instead of (whatever BSC thing he's doing)"

Frank_London

forestleaf said:

I feel like I spend most of my time with them yelling or criticizing.  It’s little things, like asking them to brush teeth in the morning, or get dressed, or make sure they drink their milk, or asking them to not eat snacks before a meal, or stop wrestling because someone will get hurt, or yelling because someone did get hurt, or getting them to stop doing flips on the couch before something/someone gets knocked over, or could they please pick up their dirty laundry on the floor, etc.  Of course this is life, and this is parenting, but why can’t I find anything positive?  This isn’t nice Mommy asking politely; generally it’s yelling Mommy because I’ve repeated it so many times (I try to not repeat and enforce consequences for not listening, but…).  My H and I are working on this all the time, and he constantly reminds me to not lose my frame with them but I lose it constantly.  Why can I now maintain it with him when we argue but not with the kids?

Your kids are undisciplined. You set boundaries and they don't follow them.

Doing "flips on the couch".... Snacking before dinner even though there's a no-snack rule.... knocking over and breaking things in the house.... obviously this is just the tip of the iceberg, and it is making your life hell.

No.  This isn't on. Here's what you do.

You make rules, and you have consequences for breaking them, and you enforce those consequences.
Nagging, yelling, losing your shit, and scolding don't count as negative consquences.
Just off the top of my head, here are some suggestions:
- if they run or get into 'rough play' indoors - Confiscate electronic media (for 2 hours/24 hours/ etc).
- Anyone caught snacking an hour before dinner has to throw that snack in the trash, and gets no dessert.
- inspections of floors at 6 pm, 
- any dirty clothes on the floor and the owner of the clothing gets no dessert ;
etc. These are just suggestions, but you get the idea.
 
No more yelling. Get clever and creative.
Impose discipline swiftly and unapologetically.

My neurotic tendencies include control issues as well as I am a major germophobe (this came about when my newborn son got viral meningitis at 8 days of age from a regular cold virus).  If the kids are out and someone touches a doorknob and puts their fingers in their mouth I go completely insane (I don’t worry about dirt outside, just germs from other kids). 

Maybe your germophobic tendencies are unrealistic, but this example doesn't sound unreasonable. I wouldn't want my kids doing that either.

I understand theoretically that I can’t control them.  But I guess my issues are subconscious?  Some Reds are easy to stop.  Others are deep-seated, like control issues, I think.  How does one just STOP worrying about maintaining control?

Big picture, I think the problem here is the exact inverse of what you believe it is. You have absorbed the notion that you should let your kids run free. This unworkable, naive idealism is clashing against the real world experience of trying to raise real children. 

They are your children, they are in your care, and they live in your house. Don't be embarrassed or afraid of exerting control. Embrace it.

Undisciplined children don't grow up to be carefree artistic types, they grow up to be brats.

forestleaf

Thanks for all the insightful comments.  @Frank_London, yours is an interesting view of control.  Of course children need some control.  But everytime I see one of them I immediately make some sort of comment about what they should be doing, or asking them if they did something they were supposed to, or why didn't they do whatever.  I feel like a nag, a constant critic.  You know that 5:1 ratio we are supposed to keep of positive to negative interactions in relationships?  I think mine is a 1:5 ratio, and I think about that all the time.  I don't think my kids should run free as you suggest, but I strongly think they DO need control, and I spend every waking minute with them enforcing that.  And it just seems wrong. 

It seems like my H and I both are constantly trying to find ways to enforce boundaries MORE, and the more we push on that, the more the kids push back.  I do wonder if we are pushing in the wrong direction. 

I have friends who spend so much time with their children doing fun things and crafts and coming and going to activities, and they see so happy and so enjoying of each other's company.  That's not me at all.  Everyone always tells me to give myself a break, and that being a parent isn't being a friend.  I don't want to be their best friend, but I do think they need to get some positive interaction from me.

Angeline said:

Decide to be the adult, not just the biggest, loudest human in the room. 

What am I teaching?
What are they hearing? 
How will they remember this?
How will they remember me?

The easiest response is yelling. It takes effort and more creativity than you ever thought you were capable of to come up with appropriate, effective discipline (Note I said discipline vs. punishments).

@Angeline, this question about how will they remember me is something I actually think about regularly.  Somehow this thought fails to change my actions.  I still instinctually yell when my son knocks something over or my toddler pulls open a bottle of perfume to dump on the floor or my eldest hits my son.  I think it surprises my H how quickly I escalate my anger with them. 

I love the chore chart idea and I've done it before.  Admittedly it became a hassle and just more work so I stopped doing it, but I can reconsider it and try to make it easier.

Frank_London

forestleaf said:

Thanks for all the insightful comments.  @Frank_London, yours is an interesting view of control.  Of course children need some control.  But everytime I see one of them I immediately make some sort of comment about what they should be doing, or asking them if they did something they were supposed to, or why didn't they do whatever.  I feel like a nag, a constant critic.  

And there lies the problem, in two parts.
First, you don't like telling them what to do.
Second, you are trying to enforce boundaries by reasoning with them, or nagging. 

My advice is pretty simple. Stop trying to talk them into behaving. Instead, set consequences.

Katt

While I agree with the idea of consequences rather than yelling/nagging, it sounds like you might also need to relax a bit and separate misbehavior from kids being kids.  Sometimes kids are loud and annoying. Younger kids turn into assholes when they are hungry or tired.  Most of all, everything in your life won't be picture perfect Better Homes and Gardens / Pinterest when you have a job and several kids.  They're human and so are you.   And that's okay.  

Beatrice

When I read about your struggles with parenting, I get a picture in my head of you trying to maintain a bubble around yourself while looking out at the kids and seeing that you need to make them follow the rules. It almost sounds like you think that you can say to them, "Ok, kids.  Here are the rules.  See you at dinner!"  I completely understand.  I'm pretty introverted myself and constant interaction with others is very exhausting for me. It sounds like your kids want more interaction with you. So you  need to set it up so that the interactions are more enjoyable for you.  That is your job, not theirs. 

I agree with what others have said about boundaries and consequences. You have to do that and be consistent about it.  But I think you also need to see yourself as their leader.  I spent many years with many children in the house and I always thought of it as getting out in front of them all day long.  I didn't give them breakfast then go take care of my own business, assuming that they would "play" and "follow the rules".  I gave them breakfast and then I gave them a choice of two things they could do until we all got back together for the activity of my choice. Their time during the day alternated between short breaks of "free time" and an activity directed by me. The only way to not be driven crazy by them was to enter into their lives more fully, not avoid them like I had been able to do with peers all my life.  The strategy was completely different.  It was a time of great personal growth for me because I had to stay out of my comfort zone.

Angeline

My comment wasn't intended as a chore chart, but as a resetting of how you see infractions - some serioys, some not so much, and modulating your response. But you have to really think about the various behaviors to do that. An overall framework will hopefully have you reacting with less knee jerk and more thought.

Athol_Kay

forestleaf said:

You know that 5:1 ratio we are supposed to keep of positive to negative interactions in relationships?  I think mine is a 1:5 ratio, and I think about that all the time.  I don't think my kids should run free as you suggest, but I strongly think they DO need control, and I spend every waking minute with them enforcing that.  And it just seems wrong.  

I think it surprises my H how quickly I escalate my anger with them. 

I love the chore chart idea and I've done it before.  Admittedly it became a hassle and just more work so I stopped doing it, but I can reconsider it and try to make it easier.

Right now the biggest negative influence in the situation is you. It's not going to be possible to discipline the kids effectively, until you can start disciplining yourself. The one doing the disciplining, always needs to be more self-disciplined than the ones they are trying to instill self-discipline into.

The thing to do right now, is focus on not erupting with anger over every little thing. Don't even bother trying to enforce boundaries with your negative attention, it's only making it worse.

In terms of your husband, you have to understand that as an Enneagram 9, you being expressively angry is enormously stressful and/or anxiety inducing. Faced with you being angry, I believe he less frequently has a verbal fight with you about it, but rather more frequently just withdraws / avoids / ignores you like a 9. Which of course the kids perceive as your anger being essentially impotent rage that can be safely ignored. Mom has a loud bark, but zero bite, so just jump on the sofa until she gives us cookies.

I'd discount doing a chore chart for the moment, it's just going to become a battleground that you're going to lose on again.

For now, I would as much as humanly possible completely ignore their bad behavior. The currency the kids trade in is your attention, and if you give them attention for bad behavior, you are rewarding them... thus the bad behavior continues.

If they do something right. Acknowledge it, with positive attention.

Even when it comes time to start enforcing particular boundaries, you're going to need to cherry pick a few easy ones to start with, one at a time, rather than attempt to do everything at once.

redheaded_woman

Really truly....ask yourself: what will happen if the perfume gets dumped? Or the milk gets spilled? Or the lamp falls over?

Why, in the big picture of life, does any of that matter?

And what expectations can you realistically/ reasonably let go of?

(You don't need to answer me, I'm just suggesting you really need to think about that for yourself)

Tiger_Lily

No answers besides everyone else's very good ones, but this resonates.  Mine are older (13, 11 & 9), and discipline and good habits were, to an extent, casualties of our marital troubles.  It's somewhat better now but not ideal, especially with the youngest.  We get through each day the best we can using a combination of picking our battles, not crying over spilled milk, and trying to actively infuse positivity every way we can. (And yes, occasionally slipping and yelling.). And hoping that, by the grace of God, they will grow up OK.  Maybe not as great as they might have been had we been better parents, but OK.

Maria

I always hesitate to weigh in too much on parenting threads, because I get the impression that Americans put a lot more emphasis on hygiene and discipline than European parents, so my parenting experience and strategies likely don't align with yours at all.
Still, a couple of thoughts:

What helped me to keep a (hopefully sound) balance between controlling and negligent behaviour was this realisation:

Being in control of my circumstances (or my children) is an illusion.
Being helpless in the face of circumstances is a lie.
Being able to influence my circumstances (or my children) is the truth.

As a mother I sometimes think I erred on the side of too much negligence, although my children complain all the time I'm a very strict parent, much stricter than their friends' parents. So probably I got it halfway right

As important discipline is I think it needs to be balanced with having a good time together. As a family and with kids one-to-one. It's the quality of the relationship that takes you through puberty.
I am so glad that I somehow managed to create lots of small +1 moments when my children were younger.

For me, the best advice I got was what my father told me ... relax. And he was right.
Nothing creates a bad atmosphere like a tense parent.
Discipline has its place, but you decide what kind of behaviour needs to be disciplined. Sure, you can think up consequences for almost everything, for every tiny bit of acting out, of creating a mess, for not behaving like an adult - but what will that get you besides constant power struggles and tiresome enforcement of boundaries?
So what if they wrestle and someone gets hurt? That's a normal part of childhood. If they don't drink their milk once in a while they won't develop rachitis. If they flip on the couch... I don't even know what bad things could happen, because we always did that as children and so did mine Don'ts weat the small stuff.

Where's the part where one simply enjoys one's children?
Enjoy it as long as they want to be with you. Once they're 15 you will be an embarrassment to them and they'll rather drop dead than be seen in your vicinity. Right now it seems they are happy to be with you. Read a book or do some gardening and let them just be around you. They'll probably do their own stuff, bicker at each other, "help" you a bit - you won't even have to play with them.
Everything doesn't have to be organised.

Scarlet

Is there something you could do to start your days with positivity?

For example, my baby sister LOVED to go to the barn and see the cows.  Loved.  I really don't think there was anything in the entire world that would make that little girl happier.  So every morning after breakfast, we walked (meandering and distracting, but a walk nonetheless) to the barn, petted a cow, visited other critters.  Boom, instant positive.  

Not everyone has a secret weapon such as a barn and adorable animals, but think about what would work for your family.  Maybe it's silly dancing.  Maybe it's reading a story.  What makes you and your kids happy? 

beribboned

Yes relax. I have it easier with one two year old wild child and a part time job with pre K kids but i think you should give pretend play more of a shot. There's so much fun to be had and you will see your children shine in pretend play.
You mentioned in your intro you shut down your imaginings as a teen. You must have a powerful imagination if you felt the need to lock it up. If you have not let your imagination loose for yourself you might have a harder time letting it loose for your children.

forestleaf

Athol_Kay said:

Right now the biggest negative influence in the situation is you. It's not going to be possible to discipline the kids effectively, until you can start disciplining yourself. The one doing the disciplining, always needs to be more self-disciplined than the ones they are trying to instill self-discipline into.

The thing to do right now, is focus on not erupting with anger over every little thing. Don't even bother trying to enforce boundaries with your negative attention, it's only making it worse.

In terms of your husband, you have to understand that as an Enneagram 9, you being expressively angry is enormously stressful and/or anxiety inducing. Faced with you being angry, I believe he less frequently has a verbal fight with you about it, but rather more frequently just withdraws / avoids / ignores you like a 9. Which of course the kids perceive as your anger being essentially impotent rage that can be safely ignored. Mom has a loud bark, but zero bite, so just jump on the sofa until she gives us cookies.

I'd discount doing a chore chart for the moment, it's just going to become a battleground that you're going to lose on again.

For now, I would as much as humanly possible completely ignore their bad behavior. The currency the kids trade in is your attention, and if you give them attention for bad behavior, you are rewarding them... thus the bad behavior continues.

If they do something right. Acknowledge it, with positive attention.

Even when it comes time to start enforcing particular boundaries, you're going to need to cherry pick a few easy ones to start with, one at a time, rather than attempt to do everything at once.

@Athol_Kay, I definitely realize that the anger is the problem.  It's a momentary BOOM that feels uncontrollable, so I'm wondering if there are any thoughts I can focus on or methods to stop it.  Some habits seem easy to break, while others are deep-seated and complex and much harder to eliminate. 

I love my kids, and I'm proud of them.  I want to understand for myself WHY I have such difficulty wanting to be around them.  Just me saying I'm an introvert seems like a bad excuse.  I am really proud of my own personal gains from my MAP, but I feel so self-focused right now, and that seems wrong.  Of course my H has been a big part of my MAP so our relationship is strong too.  Over the past few years as he's MAPed, when our relationship has improved I've always been happy with it, and then it's made me feel guilty I can't seem to focus positive feelings on the kids and my relationships with them.  Telling myself to just relax doesn't seem to help.  (Another "red" that I can't seem to just STOP.)

Regarding my H's reaction to my anger (as an Enneagram 9), your description would have fit him before, but much less now.  I read the "levels of health" under Enneagram 9 and I would call him a 3 from the website: "Optimistic, reassuring, supportive: have a healing and calming influence—harmonizing groups, bringing people together: a good mediator, synthesizer, and communicator."  (He might have a few touches of 4 still.)  Looking at my Enneagram (6), my "level of health" is somewhere around a 4 right now: "Start investing their time and energy into whatever they believe will be safe and stable. Organizing and structuring, they look to alliances and authorities for security and continuity. Constantly vigilant, anticipating problems."  (And I probably have a touch of 5 with passive-aggressive, evasive, and anxious tendencies.)  Since he and I are doing well right now, he butts in when I am getting angry and pushes me on maintaining my frame.  It kind of pisses me off, but I don't get super mad at him since we're on good standing generally.

@Maria, I'm always interested in European advice.  I think you all get it right more often than not.  You sound like a great mom.  And @Scarlet, I love the cow story.  Makes me wish I had a cow in the back yard. 

Athol_Kay

Not meaning to be insulting, but I generally take peoples own assessment of where they are on the levels of integration with a moderate dose of salt. We all think better of ourselves than perhaps we are. It's easy to cherry pick either the best or worst and change the number as we please. I'm more concerned with a sense of upward momentum and the levels of integration will take care of themselves.

If angry, you can generally do two things. (1) Take a break from the situation and self-soothe, or (2) simply say you are experiencing being angry, as opposed to directing onto the person that you are angry at. I.e. "I am angry that you are jumping on the beds when I told you not to." as opposed to, "WHAT IS WRONG WITH YOU?!?!? I HAVE TOLD YOU... yada yada yada"

In general though, the more you blow up, the deeper the neurological pathways get and the more reflexively angry you get.