Being a good parent?

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  • AngelineAngeline planting seedsCategory Moderator** Posts: 14,501
    Maria said:
    I went from: " Please do ... chore!" - "Have you already done... chore?"  - "You didn't do ... chore, so here's xyz consequence"

    to

    "Tomorrow afternoon we'll do ... chore".

    And then all of us clean the windows or the loo, re-organize the kitchen, and I demonstrate that vacuuming a floor means all the way into every corner ;)

    It's a bit sad, actually, because my children are ... wait for it... 18 and 21. Yes, you read that correctly.
    But somehow it never really worked for us if I just told them what to do or wrote lists. Yes, we have a chores schedule for every household member and it's about as useful and effective as agreements in the Middle East. Yes, I could have enforced consequences all the time and I could have taken away privileges and all that. But I didn't want to. I want less stress in my life, not more.

    Since I do the bigger parts of home maintenance together with my children my blood pressure went from red to green again. We are a family and we clean as a family.  It's easier to demonstrate than to critisize and nag and it's far quicker and far, far more fun! We take turns to decide the playlist (because with music everything gets done easier, right?) and nothing motivates one better to scrub vigorously than Sabaton's To Hell And Back (which my son chose as I forced asked him to clean the toilet).

    I wish I had already applied that method when they were younger; it would have spared me so much hassle. Nothing easier than saying "Tomorrow we'll tidy your room together".
    This was how I did it, too. I'd sit right there on the floor with them and ask, "OK what's next? No, theres still stuff on the floor/under the bed - what do we do next?" I had a tall cheapo painted shelf with colorful baskets that each held one kind of toy. Not because I'm super anal but because it makes it much easier for them, because sorting takes some of the decision out of it. Yes, I do think it's too much to ask of an 8 year old to make 50 decisions for where to put those 50 or so things, without already having a very clear place already available.

    Also because I can say "well just pick up the Legos and we can leave the rest for tomorrow" and they'd feel like they were getting off light. A big pile on the floor is overwhelming. A pile where you have to treasure hunt for Legos isn't quite as bad. Then you just close the door lol.

    In the dresser scenario above, I think I'd put pictures on the wall while he throws away anything paper, and call it good. "Oh here, let me help, I'll hang these pictures so they'll be out of your way. You can hammer the nails if you throw away all the paper stuff."
    "Speak your truth." - Scarlet
    Remember to play!
    Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
    Be married, until you are not.

    Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
    BeatriceWinterforestleafMaria
  • WinterWinter The Island of MisFit ToysGold Women Posts: 955
    edited October 7
    Yes!  We do family cleaning days as well (usually every 2-3 weeks).  We have a binder that describes what is needed to be done in each room and then we  crank up the Hamilton soundtrack and each go to work. I almost always need to check in on room or bathroom progress and lend a hand. 

    The rest of the time I don't care about their bedrooms or bathrooms. Shared space is different and gets picked up as needed. 

    BeatriceAngelineMrsJon
  • BeatriceBeatrice USAGold Women Posts: 1,175
    edited October 7
    Angeline said:

    Also because I can say "well just pick up the Legos and we can leave the rest for tomorrow" and they'd feel like they were getting off light. A big pile on the floor is overwhelming. A pile where you have to treasure hunt for Legos isn't quite as bad. Then you just close the door lol.


    This.  Always make 'em feel like they are getting off light.  I used to announce that I was going to clean all the toilets, but I needed someone to gather the towels out of the bathroom and start a load of laundry and someone else to wipe the mirrors and sinks. My kids knew a kind offer when they heard it and they were delighted to help me out. And quick as bunnies, too.  Lol.  Clean bathrooms and I also got "nice mommy" points. 
    We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us.  -Joseph Campbell
    Angeline
  • forestleafforestleaf At the farmGold Women Posts: 1,703
    amblrgirl said:

    Theories for the dresser pile:
    1. Clever kid cleans floor, thinks parents won't notice that piles have simply been moved from floor to dresser. Amused, "Nice try, buddy. Now put all this stuff in it's right place and I'll be back to do a room check in 10 minutes."
    2. This fits the child's definition of a clean room and they didn't realize it would not be up to your standards (or decided to risk it and find out). You'll have to clarify expectations in a gentle, understanding way.
    3. Child is overwhelmed by mess. Needs to clean more frequently, maybe pausing a few times throughout the day for quick clean-up breaks.
    4. Child doesn't know what to do with all the stuff. Make sure everything has a home and gently guide/remind the child of where things belong.
    @amblrgirl thanks for your thoughts!  Option 1, I don't think he's that crafty.  Option 2, gentle, understanding way would actually still make him blow up.  Option 3, his room actually isn't usually that bad, but I have to admit I do a lion's share of the work in there because I want to avoid said blow-up.  And option 4, I think this might be the answer, combined with @Angeline's suggestion of making a bunch of labelled baskets with room for each kind of toy. 

    TW got super motivated last weekend and super-decluttered kids' toys.  We have large bags (like 9) of kids' toys ready to go to Goodwill.  So we've made headway there.  And we're much closer to "simplicity" like you mentioned @Beatrice.  Naturally as my H pulled everything out, the kids were playing with every little thing they hadn't seen in a while and redistributing things to all corners of the house as my H was trying to corral them and avoid them seeing the things he knew they would get upset about.  So, we're making progress. 

    My son loves LOVES to collect trash.  Like actual trash.  If it's colorful, and it's on the ground, he picks it up and brings it home.  He pulled little shelled organisms out of the lake the other day and put them in a bucket with water and luckily I was able to get him to keep those in the garage.  (Although now that I think about it they're not there anymore.  Better walk around his room checking for smells...)  Plus he LOVES paper and paper airplanes.  The collection of paper on that dresser is an overwhelming mess of paper airplanes and drawings that look like trash to me but are important to him.  I would place 75% of that into the recycling bin.  So maybe if I get a new shelf this weekend and some cheap baskets, we can make labels and he can have a new home for papers?  But, my point here was that the dresser in the photo isn't filled with 300 toys we bought him, most of it is paper "art projects" or airplanes, plus rocks and shells and trash he's found on his own.  My contribution to that mess is a few framed photos and a globe (hard to see in the photo).  So it's not this overwhelming pile of mommy-and-daddy-bought-me-too-many-toys.

    When I helped him with the clothes on the floor last night, many of them I knew were probably dirty mixed in with the clean, but I put them all away like they were clean.  I just can't re-wash everything because there's a chance it's dirty. 

    All the ideas about doing chores are simply beyond him right now.  It's not common for me to able to say two words to him without him getting angry at me, so I have to drop the "chores" for now.  My H and I met with the psychologist yesterday and then the receptionist let me actually make the next six appointments for my son (oh my goodness the super-organized me was really excited to type those into my calendar).  Oddly the psychologist (and this guy works with kids with these issues regularly) said that he expects us to do 6-8 sessions and then re-evaluate, possibly stop at that time.  I can't imagine we'll be all turned around and happy as clams in 6-8 weeks after 8 years of anger and frustration.  But perhaps he's just looking to turn us in a positive direction and to see slight progress.  Such that we can manage further improvements ourselves?  Remains to be seen.
    amblrgirl
  • BeatriceBeatrice USAGold Women Posts: 1,175
    edited October 7

    So it's not this overwhelming pile of mommy-and-daddy-bought-me-too-many-toys.

    I'm sorry if I sounded like I was blaming you for it.  That was not my intention at all. The thought never occurred to me.
    We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us.  -Joseph Campbell
    amblrgirl
  • AngelineAngeline planting seedsCategory Moderator** Posts: 14,501
    edited October 11
    Beatrice said:

    So it's not this overwhelming pile of mommy-and-daddy-bought-me-too-many-toys.

    I'm sorry if I sounded like I was blaming you for it.  That was not my intention at all. The thought never occurred to me.
    Nor mine. My intent was to present the kid point of view that, working with what he's got, that IS organized. Maybe if there's nothing on the dresser he can arrange his airplanes. Maybe his "clean" room never will include getting rid of the airplanes, if those are his treasures.

    Part of the goal for physically sitting in there with them is to force some progression and "what next" thinking, not necessarily to clean the room.

    Given all the other negative interactions going on with him right now, how necessary is a clean room? Just install some kind of storage system in there without saying a word about it. Let him make the labels (if he wants labels). 
    "Speak your truth." - Scarlet
    Remember to play!
    Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
    Be married, until you are not.

    Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
  • forestleafforestleaf At the farmGold Women Posts: 1,703
    Oh I wasn't feeling like you were being blame-y.  I was just clarifying what's there.  And it is an absolute fact that he is MUCH MUCH more likely to start cleaning if I work alongside him.  Last night I started with the clothes on the floor and simply organized them by clothing type and folded them so that he could easily put them away.  As I did that he began picking up papers.  I left after a bit and he kept "working" and I returned later to find the Great Paper and Junk Pile of 2016 on his dresser. 

    I realize my standards are probably too high.  But it's a function (for better or worse) of my sanity, that a clean home takes my stress level down like ten notches, whereas a dirty home takes it up about ten notches. 

    So, perhaps he and I will "clean" together?  In the past when we've done that he still jams books into bookcases and pushes papers back into corners and I'm reluctant to say anything to not wake the angry beast but invariably find myself saying something.  Also when we clean together he tends to go really really slowly, not making much progress, hoping that I'll do the most of it?  I don't know.  He just wants me by his side.  Despite this kid's screamy, angry nature, I know he adores me.  I'm just worried that by the time he's a teen he'll convince himself that he doesn't love me if he keeps being angry like this.
    Winteramblrgirl
  • BeatriceBeatrice USAGold Women Posts: 1,175
    edited October 7

    So, perhaps he and I will "clean" together?  In the past when we've done that he still jams books into bookcases and pushes papers back into corners and I'm reluctant to say anything to not wake the angry beast but invariably find myself saying something so I focus on what goes right and think about how to approach the books and papers next time we clean together.  Also when we clean together he tends to go really really slowly, not making much progress, hoping that I'll do the most of it because he enjoys being with me and doesn't want our time together to come to an end.  I don't know.  He just wants me by his side.  Despite this kid's screamy, angry nature, I know he adores me.  I'm just worried that by the time he's a teen he'll convince himself that he doesn't love me if he keeps being angry like this so I want to use the time we have now to build good habits of relating to each other.
    Inject some positivity. Have OI.  It works on almost everything.
    We must be willing to get rid of the life we've planned, so as to have the life that is waiting for us.  -Joseph Campbell
    WinterforestleafAngelineMrsJon
  • Tiger_LilyTiger_Lily Silver Member Posts: 772
    I second the hangar idea.  In general, consider different types of "home" for different types of stuff. A clothesline with clips, and/or a cork board or strip, with thumb tacks and clips, for papers and airplanes; a display shelf with cubbies on top of that dresser, for rocks and smaller treasures; a basketball hoop with a net bag attached, for stuffed animals.

    Think ease of access: every storage system should be within easy arm's reach for a kid his age and not require him to climb up on chairs, squeeze into tight spaces, pull out drawers, etc.  The easier each putting away operation is, the more likely it will become a habit.  
    amblrgirlforestleafAngelinefrillyfun
  • HildaCornersHildaCorners Winter? You call *that* winter?Gold Women Posts: 3,377
    I was thinking ... if he's so into saving papers and "trash", how can that stuff be stored relatively neatly?

    Of course there need to be boundaries: no food, food trash, "creatures" living or dead (fossils ok). But other than that, if his treasures are stored relatively neatly, who cares?

    Enneagram 5w4.  I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.

    "I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
    Jek
  • dalefdalef Silver Member Posts: 1,963
    What we did with shells was leave them on an anthill for a couple of days so the ants ate all the flesh leaving just the shell. (Still have some that ate nearly fifty years old.)
  • AvalinetteAvalinette In the kitchenSilver Member Posts: 1,316
    Sorry to be late on the response, but I read what you said about requiring chores for girls but not for your son because that's a battle you can't win right now and thought I'd add my perspective.

    There was a (shortish) time in my childhood when my parents made that same decision: my brother wasn't required to do chores, but my sister and I were. It was framed as 'girls do inside chores and boys help Dad with outdoor chores.' (I would not be at all surprised though, if the real reason was that making him do chores was too much of a battle just like you guys). I didn't have a problem with that or resent having a different sphere of chores to my brother...at first...however, with Dad being home only on weekends and Dad not actually doing much outdoor chores and brother not helping him at all when he did, my sister and I eventually noticed and complained and did get resentful of the unfairness and before too long my brother was added onto the indoor chore roster again. I think my parents had good intentions and if it had actually led to my brother doing his share outside it would have worked well.
    JellyBean
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