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Gnusmas Triage and MAP
Gnusmas
RSAMember Posts: 61
Question One – Basic Questions
I am 47 and she is 40. We got married 18 years ago after a somewhat stormy courtship. While courting her, I had interest in another girl, and only after realizing I may be loosing my wife, did I ask her to marry me. I loved her dearly! 2 children. I am 5’9’’ (172 Lbs), quite attractive, strong and reasonably fit for my age, and she is 5’2’’ (in the region of 200 Lbs). I practise martial arts. She needs to lose 70 – 80 pounds. I am employed by, and partly own a factory. We have been in a slump for the last 3 years, but things are looking up. She is employed, but works shorter hours than I do. She has a part time business going that keeps her busy at some times. I am very independent, but a good leader and and teamworker. She is a good teamworker. I am a much better housekeeper than she is.
Question Two – Rule Out Medical
No medical issues on my side. She is on the pill, has had respiratory issues lately (out of breath, off sick) which I believe stems from her being overweight. She has always had an extra bit of weight, but after the kids it went from bad to worse. Despite the porn thing, I do not believe I have a shortage on T.
Question Three – Rule Out Structural Attraction Issues
I wish my wife to loose the extra weight. Whereas she has always been a bit overweight, it believe that she can be classified as obese now . Financially we are frugal and we wish we had more disposable income. I have debt in property that is generating income. I have been working in getting rid of the smaller debts, and that is making progress. There was a stage where the business did well, and we had more disposable income, then things took a dive and we had to tighten belts. However as mentioned, there is light at the end of the tunnel. I believe that my wife feeling financially insecure is one of our issues.
Question Four – Rule Out Critical Moments and Neglect
It may be that when we were dating, but before we were engaged, I had a long distance relationship on the sly. When the long distance became sort of physical, I realized that the other one was not for me. My (not yet) wife found out and dropped me. I asked her to marry me, showing how serious about her I was. She however has never forgotten this indiscretion.
Another may be when she found out about my porn addiction which started when she became pregnant. She found out only after a couple of on-off –on years
Question Five – Rule Out Outside Sexual Sources
From her side I do not think there are any.
From my side, ugh! 2 affairs that she does not know about, and I have no intention mentioning. These came about me being attracted to slimmer more self assured women. And of course the porn addiction. I am off the porn, and well aware of the devastating effects it has on one, and ones marriage. I still desire other women.
Question Six – When Did the Sex Go Bad?
When she became pregnant. Being large and uncomfortable lowered her libido. After birth she never got her figure back. I guess she started to feel unattractive herself.
I also stopped initiating sex after too many refusals and excuses from her side. I guess masturbating to porn when getting rejected also took its toll. She being busy on her part time business also had an effect on when she was available.
Question Seven – What Was the Sex Like at the Start of the Relationship?
Very good! We were adventurous.
Things however took a downturn due to her weight. She started feeling unattractive I guess, but also being physically unfit for some positions. So it is basically only missionary now.
Question Eight – What’s the Elephant in the Room?
It may be my affairs and porn. I however desperately want my wife to loose that 70 extra pounds and be physically attractive.
Another may be her inability to fight constructively. Any time there is a disagreement (when I disagree with her), she clams up and gets cold. She just cannot agree to disagree. This cold shoulder gets to me.
Question Nine – Who is the Leader in your Marriage?
I am. I am not a caveman MCP Alpha, but am a good and strong leader. I also look after the house and garden. Kids generally associate more with her, but I do have their devotion and respect.
Question Ten – Tell Us about the Good Times
My wife is great and despite the fat, beautiful. She looks after her appearance, dresses neatly, and always try to look good. I know she loves me deeply, as do I love her. When we go on adventures/vacations, we enjoy it tremendously.
As can be seen, I am a man of few words. This may be one of my wife`s issues, lack of communication. But that goes 2 ways. She usually communicates by complaining.
She is also coldish/stand offish at home, but nice and even flirty with me in company where I appear attractive to others. I am working on my attractiveness factor, but I guess she feels threatened when slimmer, more attractive women shows an interest in me. I do not flirt with them in front of her. And except for the affairs, I do not pursue them.
I am unhappy with her fat and the way she communicates with me. I am working on my reds and yellows. And when that is sorted out, I will take stock again and decide which way to go. Advice and input will be appreciated.
Comments
You can't make your wife lose weight. What you can do is improve yourself so she will want to lose weight in order to stay with you and enjoy the awesome man you have become.
This is not an easy process ... in the USA, there are a lot of cultural factors that make it politically incorrect to want someone to lose weight. I don't know if that's true where you live. If you want to see how hard this can be, look at @ernestern's threads.
I suggest you read the Mindful Attraction Plan book, and follow the phases in the book.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
A 5' 2" woman is overweight at 140-160 lbs. 200 pounds is obese bordering on severely obese.
So I'm validating your concern. You are correct, she needs to lose 70 pounds to be in the "healthy" or optimal weight range.
--------------
As Hilda says, we cannot make other people do anything, what we can do is provide a context to make it easy and desirable to take actions that we want them to take. I think it is absolutely reasonable for you to clearly state to your wife that her current weight is unhealthy and that you want her to be around for a long time, and one of the best ways to do that is to carry a healthy or optimal weight. Then ask her what you can do to help her.
Some obvious suggestions are to bring only healthy food into the house, remove the temptations to overeat and eat junk. Remove activities from your lives where social situations create an expectation of eating a heavy or rich meal. Cut out the booze, there is all kinds of calories in alcoholic drinks.
At the same time, shared adversity is easier to manage, perhaps you can tackle some aspect of yourself that is hard and requires discipline, just like losing weight will be for her. Maybe it's finances, it sounds like you two can use some improvement in that area.
But all of this will go best if she is attracted to you and comes at it from the mindset of he's an awesome husband and I don't want to lose him. So look at yourself and figure out ways that you can become more valuable as a partner and mate.
The Mindful Attraction Plan has some great ideas about areas to look at to become the best, most attractive, version of yourself that you can be.
When did the affairs happen relative to other events. Before the kids, after the kids, while she was pregnant? Also how long were each of them. Was it a drunken one night stand or 6 months of "honey I'm going to be working late at the office"? Also what ended them if they went on for a while. Remember this is all anonymous so the more information you give the better the feedback can be.
MAY???? You seem unsure. You also mentioned that you were dating multiple women and that your then girlfriend found out and that she has never forgotten this "indiscretion". Apparently she has good reason to not forget it.
Not related to your triage but I find it helpful to better understand where someone is coming from if they give some background into how you got here. When you found the "Red Pill", what were you looking for when you found it and what brought you around to this site. Many of us work on our relationships on our own and only admit we need help when we get close to the end of our ropes.
Your wife is horribly obese. Can't blame you for wanting slimmer women and its perfectly natural to desire other women even if your wife is a hottie. We all find other people attractive. The key is simply to not act on the desire.
"I also stopped initiating sex after too many refusals and excuses from her side."
Again, perfectly understandable BUT you're also feeding her belief that she is undesirable. It's a vicious circle. You should not deny your sexual cravings simply because she in unreceptive. If you want sex, go for it. The refusal is her problem, not yours (well, I know it creates a problem for you). Common mistake we all make. What you need is Outcome Independence (OI). Initiate but assume you ain't gettin' any when you do it and then failure doesn't matter. The hard part is initiating with authority but not caring about the outcome--this takes personal training to become adept at.
"Another may be her inability to fight constructively. Any time there is a disagreement (when I disagree with her), she clams up and gets cold. She just cannot agree to disagree. This cold shoulder gets to me."
Train yourself to ignore it, or better still make fun of it (lightly, not hatefully). Agree and escalate: "Not talking to me huh? I know, I often leave women speechless, LOL." She does this silent treatment because it works. Take away its power and you'll find she quickly stops doing it.
"As can be seen, I am a man of few words. This may be one of my wife`s issues, lack of communication. But that goes 2 ways. She usually communicates by complaining."
Shut that shit down the minute it starts. She can say one negative thing but after that the continued whining needs to be turned off. "Yes, I got that you are upset by XYZ. No need to keep on about it and be a downer."
How many drinks are we talking about on the weekend? I don't consider one or two beers a problem unless you feel a pull that you HAVE to have them.
"Treating her like a princess didn't make me a prince, it made me a servant."
Link to triage questions: http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
@HildaCorners, I tried to find this forum member (@ernestern) but it wouldn't come up? Is it because I'm not a gold member maybe?
Here is his most recent MAP thread, where he mentions his morbidly obese wife finally decides to lose weight:
http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/12365/ernesterns-2nd-mapiversary-review-and-reboot/p1
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
Hi All
Thanks for all the input.
Just had an awesome weekend.
@Mongrel, I have a better grip on the household, only bring in healthy food. I am concerned about my children`s, my own as well as my wife`s health. I am pretty clued up regarding healthy, wholesome food. Temptations are not brought in. Her weight gain does not come from within the house, probably at work. She clams up quickly regarding her weight and eating habits. It has always been an issue of contention, mentioning her weight, clams up!
Allways a good idea to cut the booze.
Sharing the financials with her, I will try that.
@Daddyoh, 10 and 12
@318JimmyNow, I am still attracted to her, she is a beautiful woman, the fat though….. It may be that she is not attracted to me under some circumstances, being under the influence, however I think she is pretty much still in love with me.
The affairs are pretty recent. Although they became physical, times and opportunities were pretty limited. Sex only about 3 time each. Both were about 6 months. I still have contact with both, we move in the same friend circles, and contact now and then is to be expected.
Yes, I am not sure what my elephant is. It may be the fat, affairs or porn. At this stage, no porn, but I am aware how easily I can go that way again.
Nope, not dating multiple women. I was dating my wife, but had contact with a flame. Said flame was out of country, but we made contact as soon as he returned. Turned out fast we were not meant for each other, but by then my wife found out and dropped me.
@Mongrel, Thanks for the input. I will start initiating sex again.
I am pretty calm and firm and receptive when we fight/disagree. I can see the other person`s side of a story, and indicate that I understand their viewpoint. She however seldom indicates that she understand and/or agree with me. When the disagreement escalates, she storms out.
Keep it coming guys and gals. Will give you feedback as I can
RegardsHow do I go about to change the Intro into a MAP?
Mike
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
The elephant is something like the affairs (most people don't come clean on stuff like that, even anonymously) so people trying to give you advice are working from incomplete/flawed information.
For example, if it turns out that your flame is male, then that would be a sizeable elephant.
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
That was definitely a she!
Apologies for any confusion caused.
The affairs has stopped. However I saw one of the women again yesterday and things got pretty hot. I stopped before things became too physical, realizing that I cannot wish for improvement in my marriage while seeking physical pleasure elsewhere. that is my elephant I think. Still being attracted to other women.
"Do more of what you love."
Thanks for the feedback.
@howard. I know. However they`re family friends. Cutting all contact with them will have the W`s sensors go off. I am keeping it distant though.
I do realize that my W`s gotta be the only partner in my life.
@eightbit. Yep, its a bit like being unable to control the attraction. And have to admit it, I am trying not very hard to control the attarction.
Mike
You realize you're in deep right now and will need to get some serious help? Any chance of you getting a one hour call with Athol?
Put back on course via a 'One Hour Call' with Athol. Seriously worth 10 times the cost, but don't tell him that....
“Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Victor Frankl
It's been proven that any negative aspect within a relationship has about 5x as much power to move things as a positive does. Dealing with -that means stopping- any negatives is an essential step before things can improve.
The EA/PA (Emotional Affair/Physical Affair) aspect of your life is clearly a negative. It sounds quite messy, to say the least, because some of the people involved are in your family circle. But without tackling it, you are like a guy running up a steep slippery hill in lead trousers and schackles. Hard, if not impossible, to get any traction.
As @CartB4Horse suggests, if you could speak to Athol Kay for a one-hour call, that would be helpful. He cuts to the nitty-gritty right away.
About your children: you seem to have more than one. How many, and how old are they?
Your wife' obesity could be related to unhappiness because she may somehow sense that you're not fully present in the marriage. If this has been going on a long time, it can turn into a negative spiral for the relationship where both partners become increasingly unhappy and do more of the negative thing which is not helping the relationship. In your case, turning to other people (or porn) for emotional/sexual responses, in your wife's, not taking care if her body.
It can be turned around, and get a relationship moving in a good direction! And two people who love each other and have been strongly attracted to each other can get back to that good place, bit by bit.
To do that, you will have to get the ball rolling in the right direction. Step #1 is that the Negatives need to stop.
Please contact Athol Kay for a coaching call if you can. If you can't, keep talking here. Many of us have struggled with similar problems to yours. We are all on your side in your wish to make your life and your marriage better.
"Do more of what you love."
Calling Athol is not on the cards for a very good reason i cannot divulge.
@Howard. Regarding my W sensing me not fully present, and leading to her obesity may be true. However the affairs only started a couple of years after she got really fat. The porn started while she was pregnant, so yes, I was probably not fully present.
It is actually one of her complaints that she is not "sure" about my unconditional love.
W has started excercising again, probably because I am leading by working on my attractiveness factor.
Kudos to her for starting again, she has however a history of starting and giving up when plataueing. I will be positive about this.
M
There is still secrecy. You are still sharing a secret with that person.
That is the definition of the affair. You are still doing things that
you would not want your wife to witness.
And she senses this. She knows something is going on.
Being attracted to other women is not the elephant.
We all suffer that.
Having a secret life is the elephant.
And in several places, you are quick to say it is because of your wife's weight.
You have to start taking responsibility. Owning your actions.
That's what the MAP is about.