Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

sf64

I came across this article in Vanity Fair today.

Tinder and the Dawn of the “Dating Apocalypse”

It has been widely noted on this forum that "women are the gatekeepers of sex" and "men are the gatekeepers of commitment."  The article talks about how things like Tinder and the "hookup culture" are completely re-writing the rules and in reality, it is the women who are losing.  Several quotes jumped out at me (my emphasis added):

“It’s rare for a woman of our generation to meet a man who treats her like a priority instead of an option,”

It is the very abundance of options provided by online dating which may be making men less inclined to treat any particular woman as a “priority,” according to David Buss, a professor of psychology at the University of Texas at Austin who specializes in the evolution of human sexuality. “Apps like Tinder and OkCupid give people the impression that there are thousands or millions of potential mates out there,” Buss says. “One dimension of this is the impact it has on men’s psychology. When there is a surplus of women, or a perceived surplus of women, the whole mating system tends to shift towards short-term dating. Marriages become unstable. Divorces increase. Men don’t have to commit, so they pursue a short-term mating strategy. Men are making that shift, and women are forced to go along with it in order to mate at all.”

Food for thought/

Scarlet

Meh.  People are still partnering off and getting married.  Use of a social app does not a societal shift make.  

LL80

I read this article and linked it to some people. They said something along the lines of, "Well it's a good thing you aren't trying to date Wall Street executives in their 20s who use Tinder."  The guys quoted in the article sound like the types who aspire to be that dude from Wolf of Wall Street. They targeted an awfully specific demographic here.

LadyOrTheTyger

Isn't it funny we have one thread right now about how women use online dating to inflate their egos by rejecting men, and another thread about how men use online dating to deny commitment to hapless women? Wonder if the truth is out there. . . ?

KatherineKelly

In every epoch there are those that thrive and those that perish.

The changes seem to be segregating men and women from each other in potentially dangerous ways for each gender.

I fear for the children who pay for the conflict among and between adults.

The one common denominator among adults seems to be anger in all its forms but maybe adults have always been angry from the consequences of being adults.

The changes have both freed men and women but also enslaved them because of how they use this freedom.

Here is a piece that talks about how hook up culture is to a woman's advantage.

http://jezebel.com/5937362/finally-someone-says-it-hookup-culture-is-good-for-women

I personally think sex is to precious to just share with anybody but each person must figure out what is best for them.

The problem is that the figuring out often changes a person on some fundamental level where they can never go back.

In my opinion personal fulfillment comes partly from seeing how your environment endangers you from "being in it" (the time period and culture) and avoiding these dangers.

I have largely stepped out of being a part of my generation as to doing what is considered  "normal"

No hookups, no tattoos and piercings, no drugs and addictions, no acting like a man to prove that I'm just as good as them.

You can never own yourself if all you do is follow the herd as "that herd made up of the gender you belong to" and women are particularly vulnerable to doing what the group does as to "all other women" because of the  "safety in numbers" effect.

HildaCorners

There is a segment of the population who ignore "hookup culture" because they want to settle down and have a house full of kids. Some want to do this while they are still young, others fool around for a while first and then want to settle down.

In the long run, nobody else matters.


Seriously, there's been some version of this thinking ever since reliable birth control was developed. Those who don't want children, those who don't want a long term relationship, don't have to have one.

We're talking about a highly visible minority, too.Most people are programmed to reproduce ... not just have sex, but to make babies. Thing is, we don't hear about "most people", just the loud ones who go against the flow.

Tennee

There has always been a hook-up culture.  There will always be a hook-up culture.  You're either in it or you're not.  I assure you it was alive and well in the late 80s and early 90s, well before any 'on line' access.  The only difference now is the medium; digital presence vs. shots in a bar.  

Blackwulf

My Dad basically used the term "cocksman" for the guys who would be considered Players today.  This was the late 50s early 60s, one of my uncle's was one, this is rural north Georgia.  It has always been around.  The strategy then was to date women in the town one or two over, be discrete, and they would be more likely to have sex with you.   

HildaCorners

The difference is that with reliable birth control, women are free to be Players too.

This changes the dynamic some, but not as much as the scare articles would want us to believe.

Rorschach

Tennee said:

There has always been a hook-up culture.  There will always be a hook-up culture.  You're either in it or you're not.  I assure you it was alive and well in the late 80s and early 90s, well before any 'on line' access.  The only difference now is the medium; digital presence vs. shots in a bar.  

Maybe. But I think David Buss is on to something when he says it's a game changer in evolutionary terms. The difference in the past was that you actually had to talk to one another, and interact at least to some degree like real people. Apps like Tinder seem far more instrumentalisizing of the Other. Maybe I'm just old, but I found the article sad and disturbing on a number of levels. When the Other and sex is commodified to such an extent, what does this mean for intimacy in marriage/LTRs? 

Athol_Kay

It's the porn as much as Tinder.

The end of the article was the women coming across a ton of guys that's can't stay hard... in their early 20's even.

That didn't start in the last 2 years.

The_Dude

HildaCorners said:

The difference is that with reliable birth control, women are free to be Players too.

This changes the dynamic some, but not as much as the scare articles would want us to believe.

Birth control is the biggest uncontrolled experiment in human history.  Not saying it should be stopped but we have no idea how this is all going to turn out yet. 

dalef

I realized that in my life, I was the one who was the gatekeeper of sex; and the women who were the gatekeepers of commitment. Only one woman blocked me from sex (with another woman); but four told me they weren't interested in marriage, and another one wouldn't even talk about it.

John3

Fear of disease has replaced fear of pregnancy and tends to push behavior back into a conservative direction.  Look at what has happened to the gay community in the wake of the AIDS epidemic.

LadyOrTheTyger

In my experience nobody seems to be worried about disease. I've never dated a guy who had his own condoms; I had to provide them. And I usually get pushback about using them. 

TedD

I'd also add that the prevalence of such apps may perhaps lead more people into trying hookups than in the past.  Meaning, more folks than before in history are likely to have at least a few hookups under their belt at some point in their lives.  A few generations ago, that number was substantially smaller I would wager.  Add it to older age of first marriage (meaning a longer stretch of time before adulthood and getting married) and you have a lot of hookup years between.

Athol_Kay

Actually sex partner counts are declining. Not everyone is on Tinder.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25940736

http://time.com/3846289/boomers-generations-millennials-sex-sex-trends-sexual-partners/

Still, despite the growing acceptance of sex before marriage, the data suggests that there might still be a different kind of awkwardness in the cross-generational sex talks. “What you might see when millennials are discussing these issues with their boomer parents is that millennials are more permissive of sexuality,” Twenge said, “but boomers might have to shut their mouths about how many partners they’ve had.”.

Tennee

@LadyOrTheTyger said:

In my experience nobody seems to be worried about disease. I've never dated a guy who had his own condoms; I had to provide them. And I usually get pushback about using them. 

Hmmmmmm, this surprises me.  The article posted sort of hints at this lack of concern, but many quoted are early 20s college kids; back when my own risk management  strategy  consisted of slurring 'you on the pill?'   But you become more risk aware - pregnancy  and disease  - relatively  early.  I'd think that'd still hold anyway.  Of course, I think - is there that much of a  'caution to the wind' approach?

Interesting...

LL80

@Tennee said:

@LadyOrTheTyger said:

In my experience nobody seems to be worried about disease. I've never dated a guy who had his own condoms; I had to provide them. And I usually get pushback about using them. 

Hmmmmmm, this surprises me.  The article posted sort of hints at this lack of concern, but many quoted are early 20s college kids; back when my own risk management  strategy  consisted of slurring 'you on the pill?'   But you become more risk aware - pregnancy  and disease  - relatively  early.  I'd think that'd still hold anyway.  Of course, I think - is there that much of a  'caution to the wind' approach?

Interesting...

No, I'm still not having sex. But discussions with female single friends confirm that most of these guys seem remarkably unconcerned with accidental pregnancy or contracting some sort of disease and seem to think that the responsibility of the birth control falls on the women.

TheLoneWanderer

*facepalm*

I have condoms in my work bag just in someone finds out that we can expense hookers or Russian brides.

Sorry, not interested in another extremely cute child in the near future. I'm all stocked up.

Admittedly when my STBX and I decided to be exclusive about a month in the condoms were retired pretty damned quickly, but bareback on the first go seems idiotic.

Hell, just the 18 years of child support is enough to give me nightmares, let alone the thought of having to deal with a lifetime need for Valtrex.

Tennee

@TheLoneWanderer said:

Admittedly when my STBX and I decided to be exclusive about a month in the condoms were retired pretty damned quickly, but bareback on the first go seems idiotic.

Hell, just the 18 years of child support is enough to give me nightmares, let alone the thought of having to deal with a lifetime need for Valtrex.

Exactly - an extremely poor risk management strategy.  @shibari 's right, people are idiots...