Not in a Code Red But Want to Fix Myself and Marriage Before it's Too Late - My Intro and Triage

I am in the same boat as a lot of other men on her. My wife is great in most ways, but we no longer really connect because she can’t tolerate intimacy. We have been through a few therapists but she is in denial that there is any issue. For her, no sex for a year and a half is fine, as long as she has a reason/s. Any feelings I have about her inability to kiss me or physically show love are mine to deal with. If I point out that it has been a month since we had sex, she will swear it was a few days before.  If I mention that I actually know the exact day it was, she becomes angry that I “keep track”. As long as I don’t bring anything up, she is very pleasant. If I do, she becomes very angry and defensive. I just want a normal happy life but whatever issue my wife has emotionally, she has no plans to confront it or deal with it. After finding MMSL, I am hoping I can somehow get her to respond by improving myself. My goal is to start laughing with my wife again. Not run out of things to talk about. Have sex more than twice a month (with a token handjob mixed in). I want to actually share intimacy with my wife. Given her past, I am not sure she is capable (see Elephant in Room section on her pattern). I hope I can get things on track before one of use want to bail. The books are on the way and I will be MAPPING!

 

1.    Basic Questions – I am 38 and my wife is 37. We have been married for 4 years and have 2 kids, 3 and 10 months. I am 5’11 and 210 lbs. I do strength training and have quite a bit of muscle on my frame. I don’t eat very healthy and also don’t get much cardio, so I do have about 20 lbs I would need to lose in order to have the physique I would be proud of. My wife is 5’3 and about 115 lbs. She looks great, even after having a baby. I would say she is an easy 8 and I am an easy 7.

 

2. Rule Out Medical – My wife is very healthy. She has an IUD and is very sensitive to any side effects, real or perceived. I am pretty healthy as far as it goes. I struggled with some ED early in the relationship and started T-therapy after we got married.

3. Rule Out Structural Attraction Issues – I think there are a few significant issues here. First would be financial. We have significant credit card debt and essentially live paycheck to paycheck. The daycare for our kids has been really tough. I don’t make a great salary and also don’t really care for my job. I also have about 20 lbs that I would like to lose so I can have a leaner body that shows off the muscle I do have. I am working on my fitness and making strides. But the area I want to improve the most is financial. My goal is to have a new job in 3 months. That might be ambitious but I am working towards that. 

Comments

  • BruceBannerBruceBanner AzMember Posts: 8

    4.  Critical Moments and Neglect – After we got marriage my wife had a miscarriage and it was tough to get through. After about a month things went back to normal. Our sex life resumed and we tried to conceive again. Shortly after we conceived, my wife said she no longer wanted sex, as she believed it would lead to another miscarriage. I wanted to be supportive and went along with it. But not only did the sex stop, she was also unable to touch me or kiss me outside of quick pecks. We went 1.5 years without sex and this had a devastating effect on our connection. When she wanted another baby, she turned on the sexuality she had before but shut it down shortly after she got pregnant (she was still unable to kiss me). We went another 7 months without sex and and went further down the rabbit hole. My wife’s de-sexualization early in our marriage had a severe impact on my confidence. I became dull, couldn’t focus at work, and didn’t want to do things around the house. The dull version of me with no confidence is a big turnoff to her.

    5.  Outside Sex Sources – I have never seen any evidence of another man and do not believe there has been anything like that going on.

    6.  When Did Sex Go Bad – Once she became pregnant with our first child. To this day, she still can’t kiss me like she used to. She has managed to do more than pecks but I wouldn’t classify it as intimate kissing by any stretch. Just sort of long smooches would be the best description.

    7.  Sex Start of Relationship – The sex in the beginning was good. Aside from my sudden ED issues, we were able to work around it. I know that was something that bothered her. She felt like it was because I wasn’t attracted to her.

    8.  Elephant in the Room – The elephant in the room is that after she shut down all intimacy in the marriage and friendzoned me, I started looking for an answer. I uncovered some things about her past that really bothered me. She never had any trauma or anything like that and had a normal upbringing. But I found out she was much more sexually open with her ex-husband than she has ever been with me. Because we had no sex life, this really bothered me and has made me feel pretty bad about myself. I also found out that she wasn’t honest about how that relationship ended. She said he was a jerk and that they had major problems getting along. I came to learn that she thought he was a great guy and treated her really well. They did have a big fight about a month before getting married and considered calling off the wedding, but decided to move forward. About 4 months into the relationship, she shut down all intimacy (the same she did to me). He became depressed and difficult to get along with. She then cheated on him and that ended their marriage officially.  She is unaware that I know she did the same thing in her first marriage. She had no idea why she suddenly lost all feelings for him and suspected that she may have some kind of emotional issue. She quickly forgot all about that and re-wrote that history in her head once they split up. Because this was hidden from me, I have a lot of secret anger because I feel like that was very important and relevant mate-selecting information. If I ever try to bring up anything from her past, she says it’s irrelevant and becomes very angry. I am worried that I married a woman that has serious attachment issues and her denial and apathy make me angry almost all the time.

    9.  Who is the Leader – I would say she is. Whatever masculine edge I had before we got married vanished after being shut out early in the marriage. Sometimes I feel like an abused dog that has no fight left. 

  • RebornReborn LondonGold Men Posts: 2,987
    How did you find out these things about her first marriage?
    Enneagram type 5 w6. 
    If I offer lots of advice, it's probably really me giving advice to myself. That always seems to happen. 
  • RebornReborn LondonGold Men Posts: 2,987
    We have been through a few therapists
    Can you say a little more about what happened in those sessions? 

    Enneagram type 5 w6. 
    If I offer lots of advice, it's probably really me giving advice to myself. That always seems to happen. 
  • BruceBannerBruceBanner AzMember Posts: 8
    fredless said:
    Right now, don't worry about the sex.  I know that's not easy, believe me.  You need to STFU about sex. For now, have no plan to change your wife.

    It's time to focus on making yourself awesome.  You need to become awesome for no other reason than you want to become awesome.

    You must buy MMSL and Mindful Attraction Plan books.  If you can afford, the video series will be extremely helpful.


    Thanks. They are on the way. Either way, I want to be a better man. 
    HildaCorners
  • BruceBannerBruceBanner AzMember Posts: 8
    Reborn said:
    How did you find out these things about her first marriage?
    I really can't say for a lot of reasons. I didn't find out from other people and that's exactly how things went down. She would be very violated if she knew I was aware of all this. 
  • BruceBannerBruceBanner AzMember Posts: 8
    Reborn said:
    We have been through a few therapists
    Can you say a little more about what happened in those sessions? 

    We have only been to about 7 sessions total. Basically the therapists said there was something they are missing and in the short number of sessions they didn't know where the disconnect was coming from so they focused on my being happier with the situation. I tried to steer things towards my wife's past and the therapist asked her if she's ever had any attachment issues in previous relationships but my wife said no and that she wanted to talk about us. She is extremely touchy about admitting that she lost all feeling right after getting married to her first husband. I knew she was withholding that but didn't speak up about what I knew. My wife knows that I know a few things based on things I have said but doesn't know I know everything. I don't know what she is protecting. If my 2nd marriage was unravelling for what seemed to be the same reasons that ended my first marriage, I would be very concerned. Or at least curious. But to her it's all insignificant. It's as it she has little to no self awareness. She is very smart but seems to have no clue why she does or doesn't feel certain things and she has zero interest in exploring that. 
  • RebornReborn LondonGold Men Posts: 2,987
    Basically the therapists said there was something they are missing and in the short number of sessions they didn't know where the disconnect was coming from so they focused on my being happier with the situation.
    Ouch!

    the therapist asked her if she's ever had any attachment issues in previous relationships but my wife said no and that she wanted to talk about us.
    Anything specific about "us" ?

    But to her it's all insignificant. It's as it she has little to no self awareness. She is very smart but seems to have no clue why she does or doesn't feel certain things and she has zero interest in exploring that.
    Yeah. You seem to have a clear picture of what is happening. The danger here for you is that you focus all your energy on "opening her up", and she will be aware of that, and close up even harder. The more you push on the issue of her past, the less comfortable around you she will be, and the worse things will get. Even though you are probably right. You will need to focus on making her feel safe and attracted. Emphasis on "safe" as in you not bringing up her past.
    Enneagram type 5 w6. 
    If I offer lots of advice, it's probably really me giving advice to myself. That always seems to happen. 
  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,583
    edited August 2015
    This is the third triage I've read with the same pattern, I think including the wifes previous relationship ending for the same reason. 
    Maybe someone else can remember which specific threads I'm thinking of. 
  • HildaCornersHildaCorners Winter? You call *that* winter?Gold Women Posts: 3,377
    I agree with @fredless. You need to go through the MAP process.

    Get your life and finances in order. Be a great father. Become a man she would be a fool to lose. This will take time, but keep working on it.

    Then, once you're awesome enough, let her know you are not willing to stay in a sexless marriage.

    Some other thoughts ....

    - how was the sex early in the relationship? Enthusiastic? Wild? Or did it seem like she was just putting up with sex.

    - stay away from porn ... MB if you have to, but no porn.

    - if you need help with money management, look into Dave Ramsey's books/classes, or the "You Need a Budget" software.

    Enneagram 5w4.  I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.

    "I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
  • BruceBannerBruceBanner AzMember Posts: 8
    I agree with @fredless. You need to go through the MAP process.

    Get your life and finances in order. Be a great father. Become a man she would be a fool to lose. This will take time, but keep working on it.

    Then, once you're awesome enough, let her know you are not willing to stay in a sexless marriage.

    Some other thoughts ....

    - how was the sex early in the relationship? Enthusiastic? Wild? Or did it seem like she was just putting up with sex.

    - stay away from porn ... MB if you have to, but no porn.

    - if you need help with money management, look into Dave Ramsey's books/classes, or the "You Need a Budget" software.
    In the beginning, I felt desired. The sexual energy was good and we really connected on that level. Looking back, everything seemed pretty normal. I always assumed things would tail off but never expected anything sudden. If I was to point fingers, I would say she definitely started it. But I reacted poorly and I am a big part of the problem right now. 
  • BruceBannerBruceBanner AzMember Posts: 8
    The_Dude said:
    This is the third triage I've read with the same pattern, I think including the wifes previous relationship ending for the same reason. 
    Maybe someone else can remember which specific threads I'm thinking of. 
    Hi Dude, This is reposted after my first thread was merged for technical reasons and my wife found the handle and website on accident and asked what it was. The first one had my name so I wish I knew how to delete it. If my wife knew how I gathered my Intel it would probably be a deal breaker. Don't know if she would ever look but I definitely don't want to answer to that. Not everything is above the board if that makes sense. 
  • The_DudeThe_Dude Hollywood Star LanesGold Men Posts: 4,583
    Ah, that explains at least one. I think there are at least one or two more.  I'll see if I can search them up later.  

    You still have a thread you want deleted? Ask one of the moderators and they'll remove it. 
  • BruceBannerBruceBanner AzMember Posts: 8
    The_Dude said:
    Ah, that explains at least one. I think there are at least one or two more.  I'll see if I can search them up later.  

    You still have a thread you want deleted? Ask one of the moderators and they'll remove it. 
    I don't think she would look it up but I violated her privacy for sure. I will email them. Thanks Dude
  • zerodayzeroday Nyc-areaSilver Member Posts: 910
    How much privacy is to be expected in a marriage?    (This is a rhetorical question)
  • TenneeTennee Next Stop: AwesomevilleSilver Member Posts: 5,963
    Hi.

    So, Job Numero Uno:  read MMSLP.  Devour it.  Then read it again.  Then read MAP.  

    Your triage screams 'blown attraction'.  This place will help you.

    Welcome...
    "Fall down seven times, stand up eight"  Japanese Proverb

    How will you live well today?
    HildaCornersSignorePillolaRossa
  • LothbrokLothbrok vaSilver Member Posts: 310
    So just to be clear she got prego and didn't want to have sex during pregnancy so not to cause a miscarriage?  


    How often are you having sex now and how is the quality?  Is she conformable with any forms of affection?

    Also who brings in most of the money and do you have a budget?  This may be a great place to start being a leader.

    How are you initiating sex and how does she respond?

    Also how long has she had the iud and which one is she on? Is she on any other medications?  Is she breast feeding or pumping or are you using formula?

    Any more details on your life together other than sex life would also help.  Do you both work long hours or night shifts?  Are both of your kids healthy?  Things like that will give us a better picture.

  • Husband3point0Husband3point0 Gold Men Posts: 3,294
    Ok, first things first -- stop your spygate or CSI or whatever other unsavory method of sleuthing you're alluding to. If you're so afraid to even tell us what the method is, then clearly you shouldn't be engaging in it. (This isn't a troll to pry it out of you btw, but rather illustrate that this is a really good indicator that you shouldn't be doing it, whatever it is.)

    Second, this marriage is different than her last one. Whatever happened then is irrelevant. Just focus on now. Just like you wouldn't want her throwing things that happened last month back in your face, she has got to be absolutely livid about you throwing her last marriage in hers. That's got to end. Move forward, not backward. 

    MAP to be a better more awesome version of you. Do more of your best traits and do less of your non-optimal ones. Be less sucky, and be more awesome. Triage yourself. Get a really good handle on your reds and yellows. Then, start working on them. I like to call them my logs to chop. I don't focus on my wife, I chop the pile in front of me. One log at a time. Pick one. Chop. Move on to the next. 

    Wash. Rinse. Repeat. 

    Then, assess her reaction to your changes over time. Keep doing a MAP for you, but over time, watch how she reacts. Sometimes, that helps picking out the next log. But, don't get focused on her. Use the info if it presents itself, but if not, keep on keeping on. 

    Lastly, I think there's more to your triage than you've given us thus far. I'm not sure if the lack of complete details is because you're afraid she might show up and get upset to see the details, or if you're embarrassed about them, or you're just not in touch with them entirely. But, there's more to this story than you've given us, imho. I feel like we're missing other CMNs and/or some serious elephants. 
    AngelineRemusfordsvtWinter
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