Putting myself out there...

silver

Hello all! I'm a 28 year-old woman in southern California, single and looking to get married one day - alpha male would be great. I couldn't help but notice how encouraging and positive this place is! I've been doing online dating for years with no real success, and have pretty much thrown in the towel in that realm. I'm introverted and shy and the men I know are quite fond of me but for one reason or another they are not suitable. I've done my fair share of approaching men and it's backfired gloriously, so I stopped. I don't text guys first.

I put a lot of work into my appearance but there is still room for improvement (don't know how to style my long hair) - I dress very femininely amongst a campus of frumpy female students. I stay thin. I get lots of attention from men in the day-to-day, but making the connection with suitable guys is hard - I don't think I am picky, very few requirements, but who's to say really. I don't get out much and am taking steps to expose myself to more suitable men, but it's difficult as I am a full-time graduate student (NOT looking at career academia). I've started going to church again regularly. I'm at a point in my life where I wonder if it's me or the men, and I am prone to blaming myself. 

One weakness I have is that I am not very experienced at flirting. I'm a bit on the blunt side (not mean, but I've been described as "what you see is what you get"). My self-esteem is kind of low at the moment because of my bad luck, and I'm struggling to see myself as a high-value woman. I know I've got guards up (who doesn't?) and I'm working on being more vulnerable. I'm sure there are blind spots and I am hoping to figure out what those are, and hopefully help others as well.

Tldr: feminine young woman looking for a lifelong partner with no luck.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read and looking forward to joining in.  

EANx

Welcome! While much of the site is devoted to helping people fix their relationship, there's a lot to help the single as well. If nothing else, you're able to learn much of how the other sex interprets things.

At 28 and in college, it's hard to say where the improvements should come from but the only person you can change is yourself. If you aren't getting the attention of the guys you'd like, you need to either change something about you and your presentation *OR* you need to go where those guys are. And a lot of that comes down to the question of how much do you believe what society tells you "should be" vs. what you actually observe people doing. In general, if you're relatively fit, dress at least okay and seem friendly and approachable then you should be getting approaches. But campuses do seem to be funny things nowadays, a small subset of guys will approach, the rest are less likely to for fear of some sort of allegation being made.

You mentioned going back to church, do you have any other activities? Any meetup groups or some other way to get out there? Heck, what is it you want, the thin tri-athlete in training, the corporate ladder-climber, etc. What you find attractive and what you don't should indicate where you should be looking.

Angeline

Hi! And welcome to the forum.

An excellent example of really facing her issues and dating with intention is @Joanna's thread:
http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/6244/23-and-single-what-do-i-need-to-work-on/p1

I can't help but notice the frequency of the use of "suitable", so that's probably a good starting place. What was unsuitable about the ones who contact you? If it's the same set of unsuitable traits again and again, what are you doing to keep selecting for them? 

Flirting is seen by some as a fakey game that is beneath them, instead of a necessary social grace and fluency (I know I did). Like it is dishonest, and bluntness is somehow higher on the virtue scale. Make sure you aren't patting yourself on the back for something that is actually an unattractive trait. You can begin to learn this valuable ability by seeing it as a necessary life skill, not just something you do to get dates. And you can repair the gap in that knowledge by a combination of a mental shift, and a few practical steps.

Mental:
Most people are not as different from each other as we like to imagine, but the conceit that we are has us approaching little insignificant interactions with a tinge of superiority. Try to cultivate a more open, respectful presentation to everyone you meet.

Practical:

Make it a goal to look directly in the eyes of everyone you walk past this week, and smile, even if it's a shy little smile and you duck your head back down. In general, men find this adorable, so don't worry about how it looks. The learning part is in the looking them in the eyes. It will feel exhausting for an introvert, do it anyway. All day, all week. At the end of a week, and write down your observations for yourself.

The second week, speak a complete sentence to 5 strangers every day. This means everyone, not just the 'suitable' men. Old men, young women, little boys, the cashier, the security guard at your work, the snappily dressed businesswoman. Everyone. Count 'em and grade them if you have to to make sure you are speaking to a variety of people, not just a "safe" subset. At the end of a week, and write down your observations for yourself.

Have you read the MAP book? You can have it on your phone or Kindle for the price of a few coffees, and I think it would give you a good framework for working towards being the high value person who attracts an equally high value partner.

MissMissy

Hi @silver! I'm in much the same situation as you. I'm 23, also a full-time grad student and am not academia-focused, and am single and looking for a partner to settle down with (eventually). I also haven't found many guys that I would consider "suitable", so I will be following your thread with interest. You've gotten some great advice here! I second the suggestion of the MAP book; it is extremely helpful for figuring out an action plan of things to work on.

I am also wondering about your non-school-related activities. Who are you outside of your studies? What activities do you like to do? What type of guy are you interested in meeting? Think about those and then I would recommend taking classes or joining some kind of club that facilitates those activities and in which you may expect to find the type of guy you would be interested in. Plus, it helps you learn more social skills in a low-pressure environment. I joined salsa and bachata dance classes through my university and a non-uni outdoor club that goes on hikes, plays recreational sports, etc. It's hugely increased my exposure to more potential guys and has been really fun, too!

DaddyOh

You're on the right path. Your self esteem should not be predicated on whether you have a partner. Surround yourself with friends and activities. 

OneEyedDrunk

I would recommend getting on to meetup.com, and joining some groups. Alpha males you said? Hiking groups, shooting (huge), etc. Lots of activities on there. I used to be part of the meetup groups in TX. All the single woman at the gun range got a ton of attention, and even started some relationships from what I remember. It's worth a look. 

dalef

silver said:

Hello all! I'm a 28 year-old woman in southern California, single and looking to get married one day - alpha male would be great. I couldn't help but notice how encouraging and positive this place is! I've been doing online dating for years with no real success, and have pretty much thrown in the towel in that realm. I'm introverted and shy and the men I know are quite fond of me but for one reason or another they are not suitable. It sounds like you are a bit picky, what is unsuitable about them? I've done my fair share of approaching men and it's backfired gloriously, so I stopped. I don't text guys first.

I put a lot of work into my appearance but there is still room for improvement (don't know how to style my long hair) Find a stylist to teach you how- I dress very femininely amongst a campus of frumpy female students. I stay thin. I get lots of attention from men in the day-to-day, but making the connection with suitable guys is hard - I don't think I am picky, very few requirements, but who's to say really. I don't get out much and am taking steps to expose myself to more suitable men, Please describe what a suitable man would look like so we can advise you where to look but it's difficult as I am a full-time graduate student (NOT looking at career academia). I've started going to church again regularly. I'm at a point in my life where I wonder if it's me or the men, and I am prone to blaming myself. 

One weakness I have is that I am not very experienced at flirting. I'm a bit on the blunt side (not mean, but I've been described as "what you see is what you get"). My self-esteem is kind of low at the moment because of my bad luck, and I'm struggling to see myself as a high-value woman. I know I've got guards up (who doesn't?) and I'm working on being more vulnerable. I'm sure there are blind spots and I am hoping to figure out what those are, and hopefully help others as well.

Tldr: feminine young woman looking for a lifelong partner with no luck.

Anyway, thanks for taking the time to read and looking forward to joining in.  

I spent years as a grad student looking for a woman to marry and dated or almost dated many women and may be able to give you advice. Realize that a lot of the single men near your age are clueless (I certainly was; you may need to do like the country "Are you going to kiss me or what?")

silver

Thank you all for your replies! To first answer a common question, the men I'm surrounded by are non-religious and I am religious, which is a big divide not worth trying to bridge (I've tried it, ex-boyfriend was an atheist). They are either significantly younger (students) or older (faculty). Most are taken and what's left are a few massive womanisers not interested in relationships. It's a very small department; I've branched out to grad student socials and everybody stays with their own lab cliques, not talking to anyone else  @EANx and @dalef are right about the campus dynamic. I do think it's a problem of exposure, I can't wait to start working in a new area. When it comes to men, though, I don't know where the line between "not interested" and "clueless" lies.

Who I'm looking for? Basically, we should share faith. Ideally he'd be educated with a minimum bachelors, have a stable viable career and in good shape. I'd want to find him attractive (I'm not too worried about that). Confident, traditional, masculine, ambitious, take-charge, dominant, all of that's great. Typical man's man. No kids. I try to be open to all sorts of guys, avoiding a "type."

Thanks for the suggestions. I have been attending more meetups, and trying to focus on groups catering to young people, which is a problem in my area. I am a hiker. Tonight I went gym rock-climbing, which was a lot fun. I'm looking to join a book club and a dancing or martial arts class, or a gym class. I'm interested in shooting ranges as well. I love to dance. I think I'm seeing some potential here.

@Angeline has some great advice; my eye contact and conversational skills with strangers is not the best, and I think your plan to addressing that weakness is very sound - thank you. I do want to clarify, though, that I am not necessarily proud of my non-flirty bluntness Academia encourages that trait in both sexes, and I've been working on softening that part of my personality. I'm also very sensitive to stress, which I have a lot of at the moment, and it brings out the worst in me and I get very pessimistic and guarded 

Thank you all again for your suggestions, it's reassuring to see that I'm on the right track. I'll check out @Joanna 's mega-thread. Just got to keep a positive attitude, be approachable, and learn to fix my hair.  

dalef

On my 28th birthday I was just what you were looking for (that was 35 years, a wife, and two daughters ago, so don't get your hopes up). Clueless is asks you on dates, does not get physical. Not interested doesn't ask you out. The first woman to go on three dates with me got kissed soon after.

Mongrel

I think you are probably looking in the wrong places but you knew that already.

I would think about finding the place where the guys you seek generally are. I race cars and teach high performance driving. I can tell you that when females show up for track driving they get a LOT of attention. They are unicorns: the few women that are interested in something that is typically a male-dominated hobby. The downside is you can wind up with a lot of leg-humping beta orbiters but the majority of guys are respectful.

I wonder if the "I'm looking for a husband" vibe is too strong with you? Not that guys don't want a committed relationship but someone who oozes "I want marriage and babies NOW" can put even the most family oriented candidate off. It can smell of desperation and this reduces your attractiveness.

If you're looking for alpha males you have to be a PRIZE worth working for. You don't want a bunch of beta orbiters swirling around hoping for a date. Running a MAP and maximizing your girl game will help get the attention of the guys you want (as will being in the places they are). This doesn't mean wear tons of makeup or wear designer fashions; girls that scream 'high maintenance' also will deter a lot of guys. Be cute, flirty and interesting.

Cautionary note: real alpha guys are very confident and some of them may be really good at PUA game. Study 'game' and learn to recognize it so you can play along but not be duped by someone who may just be trying to notch his bed post.

EANx

I'll caution against too much reliance on having a bachelor's degree. If you want a "man's man" who is confident, masculine, ambitious, etc. you're not going to find that in the average liberal arts graduate. At least not soon after graduation. Where you will find it are a lot of groups of people that often don't go to or finish college; tradesmen (plumbers, welders, etc) for instance. And if you don't realize how much some of these guys get paid, you will once you own a house!

It seems that your faith is your arena to work within. Maybe call around to all of the houses of worship in your area that are compatible and ask them to send you their social and group meeting calendars.

There's all sorts of girl-game out there, it's not just makeup, long wavy hair and a sundress. Like @Mongrel said, to capture an alpha, you have to be a prize and that which is scarce is more valued than that which is common. Among a sea of hotties in sundresses, the girl with just a hint of makeup, jeans and a ballcap will stand out. Especially if she drives up in a beat-up 50s Ford step-side pickup. If that girl showed up in that truck to the local Friday night drag strip, she'd need a bodyguard.

You say that you're blunt and don't flirt well. How's your smile? A warm smile is worth a 1000 miles of flirtatiousness. Can you smile and reach out and gently touch someone on the hand or forearm? "Oh, that sounds so interesting!" <smile> <touch forearm>.  "Tell me more."

LadyOrTheTyger

EANx said:

Among a sea of hotties in sundresses, the girl with just a hint of makeup, jeans and a ballcap will stand out. Especially if she drives up in a beat-up 50s Ford step-side pickup. If that girl showed up in that truck to the local Friday night drag strip, she'd need a bodyguard.

The trick with this is finding one where most of the men aren't over 50.    

EANx

When I was in my early 30s we had a pro strip nearby that had local race nights on Fridays. I don't recall seeing a single guy I would have guessed was over 50, most were late 20s to early 40s. You could tell the older guys, they drove stock 'vettes... and couldn't understand how their 'vette couldn't beat something with nitrous. Maybe participation age varies by region.

SignorePillolaRossa

you haven't mentioned your area of study and your expectations for the intersectionality of 'smart' & 'religious' ... imo, one can only be so smart if their religion 'informs' their assimilation of true knowledge ... if you study natural sciences, astrophysics, etc., for example, you might draw a null set of 'smart' and 'religious' if the pool of 'religious' guys you are interested in are evolution-denying, climate-science denying,  young earthers

if your preferences in religion are more moderate, you could have better luck, especially if your brand of religion does not incorporate activism to pervert the instrument of government to compel or coerce private behavior ... it is well documented that more educated citizens correspond to less support for social intolerance / govt interference in private lives

you might find yourself needing to pick which is more important to you - smart or religous

growingafamily

If she considers herself both smart and religious, she knows what the intersection looks like, you don't need to define it in such a way that potentially insults her at the same time.

HildaCorners

Your location is listed as CA, is that California or Canada?

When I was your age (30 years ago) I was neck-deep in the California grad school scene, both me and my boyfriend at the time.

If you're only interested in men of your faith, and want them to be devout, you're unlikely to find that outside a congregation. [I'm going to say "church", but this also applies to shul, mosque, or other congregation.] The trouble is, at 28, most men aren't churchgoers on a regular basis.

But they have mothers and aunts who do attend church regularly, and will be more than happy to introduce you to their single sons/nephews. So, don't rule out a church with no available men. [And those men will show up at "important" services.]

This principle can be extended ... if you are friendly to everyone, someone might know someone who would be fun to date. As Angeline said, get in the habit of smiling and being politely friendly to everyone, and let those who are close to you know you are interested in dating, if the right guy shows up.

silver

Thanks again for your insightful responses. I am in southern California, closer to the desert than the beach. For further context, I am a student in the natural sciences. For faith, I am Christian - my guy doesn't have to be a preacher's son, just someone who believes in God (pretty wide spectrum I think). Tomorrow I will join the singles group at my new church to see who attends, but looking at the average age group of the service attendees, I'm not optimistic. Today I'm checking out local events though that might cater to young people: concerts, beer/food fests, hikes, this fall should be interesting Races are a great idea.

@EANx re: The education bit. You are right - if I meet someone who is perfectly accomplished and ambitious without a college education, I wouldn't turn them down I know a guy (my brother's best friend) who is in this category and I'd totally go out with him, but he's never expressed an interest in me. 

I think my biggest downside is the whole "girl game" - I have none, I believe. I don't want to lead anyone on, and if I flirt with someone who is not compatible once we chat, I'd feel guilty (silly, I know). I am very affectionate in a relationship, but the idea of touching a man outside of one is pretty scary. This is all totally coming from a place of fear, which I need to conquer. Is "being a prize" a sheer inner confidence thing or if it's a magic combo of being interesting, hot, sweet, fun, flirty, etc? I do laugh and smile very easily Men have told me that my smile is fantastic. 

The desperation vibe might be true - I've never discussed marriage with any man except my ex-boyfriend, and I don't pressure guys into exclusivity with me. But the past few years I've been more concerned with being in my late 20s and single. I've read of men smelling desperation a mile away; maybe this is what's killing my prospects. 

Oof. A lot to think about.

HildaCorners

I understand about Girl Game ... I'm single again in my late 50s, and Girl Game has never been my strong suit, either.

It's learnable though ... a good resource is The Rules, Revisited blog. It's written by a man (in San Diego!) who wants women to learn what men like, as opposed to what women want us to be like.

dalef

silver said:

Thanks again for your insightful responses. I am in southern California, closer to the desert than the beach. For further context, I am a student in the natural sciences. For faith, I am Christian - my guy doesn't have to be a preacher's son, just someone who believes in God (pretty wide spectrum I think). Tomorrow I will join the singles group at my new church to see who attends, but looking at the average age group of the service attendees, I'm not optimistic. Have you looked at campus Christian groups like Navigators or Campus Crusade? I proposed to one woman I met at Crusade. Today I'm checking out local events though that might cater to young people: concerts, beer/food fests, hikes, this fall should be interesting Races are a great idea.

@EANx re: The education bit. You are right - if I meet someone who is perfectly accomplished and ambitious without a college education, I wouldn't turn them down I know a guy (my brother's best friend) who is in this category and I'd totally go out with him, but he's never expressed an interest in me. Try expressing an interest in him (ask him to show you how to do something he is good, for example, if he is good at canoeing, ask him to take you canoeing)

I think my biggest downside is the whole "girl game" - I have none, I believe. I don't want to lead anyone on, and if I flirt with someone who is not compatible once we chat, I'd feel guilty (silly, I know). I am very affectionate in a relationship, but the idea of touching a man outside of one is pretty scary. This is all totally coming from a place of fear, which I need to conquer. Is "being a prize" a sheer inner confidence thing or if it's a magic combo of being interesting, hot, sweet, fun, flirty, etc? I do laugh and smile very easily Men have told me that my smile is fantastic. 

The desperation vibe might be true - I've never discussed marriage with any man except my ex-boyfriend, and I don't pressure guys into exclusivity with me. But the past few years I've been more concerned with being in my late 20s and single. I've read of men smelling desperation a mile away; maybe this is what's killing my prospects. If they are still in school, they aren't thinking of marriage (how would they support a family) My first proposal came when I had a job offer (actually near you, China Lake, CA); the second after I had a good job. The guys who have good jobs are often looking.

As far as PUAs are concerned; the quote usually is true "He chased women until one caught him"

Oof. A lot to think about.

OneEyedDrunk

A little of it may be location. Let me guess. Hemet? San Jacinto? Palm Desert? Banning? Beaumont. You don't have to answer. Just remember that some of those areas are isolated, and might not have many single church members in your faith. Ask me how I know. You might consider church single activities closer to the beach. 

Mongrel

silver said:

I do laugh and smile very easily Men have told me that my smile is fantastic. 

You already have a huge advantage over the "bitchy resting face" masses out there.

No lie...as much as I like boobies and a nice ass the two things that attract me most to a woman are her hair and her smile. I can forgive some other things if she seems like a genuinely happy person. As for the hair, we've got a whole thread on that.