Never had an orgasm - intro and triage

telyni

Hello all. I could use some advice from the MMSL perspective. I've been enjoying reading some of the archives, but I've got an issue I haven't seen addressed in what I've read so far. Here's my triage. Sorry in advance that I tend to be wordy. More info is better, right? I'll put the tl;dr right up front: Never had an orgasm in eight years of marriage. Need hubby to lead, get fit, and touch me more. How do I need to change to facilitate this?

Question One – Basic Questions

I'm 31 and he's 33. We've been married eight years, together for just over a decade total. We have one son, a year and a half. I'm petite and healthy, under 100 pounds and not even five feet. He's tall and somewhat overweight at 6'3" and around 250 pounds or so. I'm not conventionally pretty, but reasonably nice-looking; I'm just so small (AA cup). Maybe SR 6-7? I think my husband is pretty handsome, except for the being overweight thing, which visually isn't as bad as it could be because he's so tall. So we're reasonably well-matched, probably. In terms of interests and experience, we're a great match.

Question Two – Rule Out Medical

No known medical issues. I just had my hormones checked by the OB-GYN, and she said everything looked normal. T-level was 35 for me. I don't know my husband's level, but he's had his checked in the past and it was normal, they said. I've never used hormonal birth control and take no medications. I'm still nursing my son, but the issues I have are from long before his birth, so I don't think there's any problem there.

Question Three – Rule Out Structural Attraction Issues

We have no significant debt and solid savings. We are efficiently paying down our house mortgage and we bought our last car outright without a loan. My husband does well at his job and makes good money. I had a good job myself until we agreed it'd be better for me to be a SAHM (which I'm enjoying, so no conflict there). The main thing here would be that my husband is overweight and wants to improve that.

Question Four – Rule Out Critical Moments and Neglect

We have some long-term ignoring going on in both directions. We're both geeky computer types and we both enjoy various kinds of computer/video games and reading online. We also play some games together, which helps, but not enough. My husband has a tendency to get home after work and hang out with his computer on the couch. Then I have a tendency to follow his lead and do my own stuff. The only critical moment I can think of would be sex on the wedding night, which more on below.

Question Five – Rule Out Outside Sexual Sources

None that I know of. No cheating. We are both committed to being 100% faithful. He admitted he experienced some porn before he met me, but I believe he has no interest in that now. I've never seen him as much as flirt with another woman. He seems to be able to go a long time without sex, though, and I don't think he's masturbating on the side, because whenever we have sex and it's been awhile, he nearly always says something about how it will have to be a quickie to start. He has said he'd prefer a frequency of several times a week, but doesn't initiate nearly that often.

telyni

Question Six – When Did the Sex Go Bad? / Question Seven – What Was the Sex Like at the Start of the Relationship?

Sex was never very good, at least for me. I've never had an orgasm by any means. That's the main thing I really want to fix. But I have increasing desire and have been constantly frustrated for the past several years. Here's the history.

I was never physically intimate with anyone else before my husband. We were in a long-distance relationship for two years before we married. On the wedding night and for several times afterward, intercourse was very painful for me, to the point where he nearly couldn't penetrate fully. I was in tears the first time. We were both mostly clueless to start. I decided later that this was a combination of inadequate foreplay and insufficient lube. We added enough lube fairly early on, after which I was much happier for awhile, since the process of penetration felt pretty amazing by itself. After a year or two, I felt like something was still missing though since I was never reaching a climax. I'd read that sex was supposed to be relaxing and fun and I was just getting more wound up all the time. I tried talking to my husband about it and he just kept trying to reassure me that "we'll figure it out someday". But someday never came.

In the meantime, I read lots of books and we tried various things. By this point, I wouldn't say I'm particularly inhibited with him (although I also wouldn't say I'm sexually confident, either). I have no problem being naked with him, having lights on, trying different positions, toys, etc. I've tried vibrators, both with him and on my own. Still nothing. Penetration (either manual or PIV) is the only thing that I can say I really enjoy, but it won't get me to a climax. Probably it's the G-spot stimulation that I enjoy, but I've tried dildo vibrators and they do nothing for me; I can't feel them at all, and my own fingers are too small. Regular clitoral vibrators do very little. I've seen some people swear by the Hitachi, which I haven't tried yet. At this point, I don't want to pay a bunch of money for another toy that may or may not work (I've tried at least four different types, including cock rings, bullets, butterflies, and massagers). We tried oral a couple of times, but he didn't seem that interested, and it didn't do much for me, so we stopped. I did try a few sessions with a sex therapist, but made no progress with her either; she basically gave me a couple of book recommendations about sex techniques, and suggested reading erotica (which isn't helpful and I'm not interested in it).

Very recently (within the past several months), I started noticing that at the peak of my cycle, I was actually getting turned on for a day or so. This was seriously like a switch flipping in my head, finally. I was having erotic dreams and everything. I had never felt so intense in my life. I don't know for sure what triggered this, unless it was just the accumulated effect of reading about sex for years, or maybe my son getting more cuddly. While I've thought for a long time that my love language is words, I'm now convinced that touch is right up there, so if I was getting a lot more touch from my son, maybe I was reaching some sort of minimum that I needed in order to be able to be turned on sexually? (Okay, that sounds kinda bad, but I don't think non-sexual touch necessarily all has to come from the spouse in order to meet the need for it. Hugs are hugs.) I've read about mothers getting "touched out" by their young children and not wanting to be touched by their husbands, but at this point (with one kid) I can't imagine that, personally. When we were dating, my husband and I would snuggle for hours sometimes. After he went home, I could still feel how he'd been touching me, and I loved it. That never happens these days, sadly.

telyni

(Q6/7 cont.)

Even when I'm turned on (which has very rarely coincided with actual sex), I still have no idea what I need to reach a climax. I can't choose to be turned on when I'm not, although reading about sex sometimes helps trigger it. When I'm not, I have no motivation to masturbate and try things because it bores me to tears. So being really turned on with no release at least once a month now has intensified my search for a solution. Sometimes I enjoy something for a few minutes, but the pleasure never builds; it just ebbs after a bit. Even penetration is like that; it's awesome for a few seconds, and then it's like I get stretched out or something, and I have to keep increasing the intensity and speed for it to keep feeling good. (I can definitely appreciate a good pounding, at least.) But there's a limit to that, physically, and eventually my husband will get off and then it's all over. It's just never enough. Maybe it would work if I were much closer to orgasm to start with, but nothing else does much, and even if it does, the minute we stop or change position, I feel like I'm back to square one.

Question Eight – What’s the Elephant in the Room?

I can't think of anything else. I don't think there are any other issues I haven't covered in other questions (but see the next question).

Question Nine – Who is the Leader in your Marriage?

I admit, this is a problem. It should be him. I want it to be him. He does take responsibility for some areas. But I've been the one pushing for improvements at every turn, and he's been passively accepting most of it. I'm the picky one, the detail-oriented one, the one that does the research and tries to fix things. (To be fair, he is EXCELLENT at doing the research on purchases and anything money-related. While we're terrible about budgeting and tend to wing it when it comes to everyday purchases, he is so good at finding deals and comparison shopping that I feel like I have everything I need while we stay well within our means.)

I realized only recently how much it bothers me that he's so passive. The energy in our marriage is super low right now. Neither one of us has a lot of motivation to do extra things. I realize now after reading the MMSL blog that he is super beta and I desperately need him to give me a good dose of alpha. I've done some reading about some introductory alpha moves and I was getting turned on just thinking about him doing some of those things, so clearly I'm on the right track here.

While I'm committed to my husband and love him, I'm worried that our marriage will eventually die a slow death if we can't fix sex. He's not motivated to do much anymore because he's tried all the usual things that work for most people, and nothing's worked for me, so he thinks it's all in my head. Maybe it is, but the context of the relationship makes a huge difference, too. I've never really felt like he's enjoyed trying things, either. Sometimes we find something I'm enjoying and I just want him to keep doing what he's doing, but his hand gets tired after a couple minutes, and then he can't find the right spot again. I'm not sure we've spent more than fifteen minutes doing any one thing, even massage (which I love). One or the other of us gets tired or bored with it, and we go on to something else.

Anyway he's reasonably satisfied when we do have sex. He likes kissing and PIV (mostly me on top) and that's about it. He says he'd prefer a higher frequency, but he pours his energy into his work and doesn't initiate much, preferring to just be available. Then I end up choosing how often I'm up for dealing with the stress and disappointment of unsatisfying sex vs being able to satisfy him. But this isn't really working and I want to change the dynamic. Now that I know I can at least get turned on, I need him to do more things that will help spark that.

telyni

Question Ten – Tell Us About the Good Times

The best time in our marriage so far was probably year two or three. I'd gotten a job I liked. We were on track to buy a house. Sex wasn't painful anymore, but I hadn't gotten depressed over how unsatisfying it was yet. I didn't know what I was missing out on. Blissful ignorance, that. I don't like where we're at now, but I couldn't go back to that either.

To be honest, right now is pretty good, EXCEPT for the sex. We're financially stable, we have a house and life and friends we like, and we have a beautiful little boy I get to raise. I've been pushing for more variety in bed and trying more things now that our son isn't so little. The main problem is that I've seen basically no improvement in the last 3-4 years of trying. Not a single orgasm. Not a single encounter I would truly call satisfying. But now I've found MMSL and have a better idea of what I really want. The difficult part will be explaining it to my husband.

So where do I even start? Do I have to take an indirect route and ask him step by step to do more active things in bed first? I think there's a more fundamental character issue than that, though. I really need him to own the process, get his exercise on, and alpha up, as you say. I want him to lead. I'm so tired of constantly pushing him, he says, "okay, what do you want to do?" and then he resists my suggestions, or does them for a little bit and then goes back to whatever we'd been doing. He keeps saying he wants to get back into exercise, and just never does it. He's also said before that he's willing to do whatever it takes to satisfy me, and he's just given up on knowing what that is after failing so many times. I'm sure the MMSL materials would help, if he's willing to read them; he's not much of a reader, though. I might be able to get it to him one post at a time from the blog, which would still be a slower, more indirect route. If I did that, what topic should I start with?

What about the MAP? I've probably been essentially doing a sort of MAP already this year as I've finished recovering from pregnancy and moving out of baby mode and into toddler mode. I'm back to pre-pregnancy (=nearly ideal) weight and accomplished my own exercise goals for the summer. I already went through the MAP book last week and rated myself on all the items. I'm generally low-energy and spend too much time on the computer, and we have some junk sitting around that needs dealing with. Other than that, I don't have any major red issues outside of sex. Yellow items are all related to the same red issues. We're thinking about trying for a second child next year, but I really want to have some improvement in sex before we complicate our lives any further.

Charlie

That's a good triage. You'll get good advice from the old-timers here. But I'll throw something out there that is a little unconventional but can't hurt to try re the orgasm issue. 

My wife didn't have an orgasm until 6 years into marriage. Fortunately a rabbit vibrator does the trick for her. But I've still never given her an orgasm. If your hubby is really willing to work with you on this issue, you might give Orgasmic Meditation (OM) a shot. My wife and I tried this a few times and were making progress on getting there (until she shut it down because it triggered sexual assault trauma).  

The whole thing is spelled out in the book Slow Sex by Nicole Daedone. Here's a youtube video giving you the basics and how-to.

[Note, there's a almost cultish aspect to how Daedone's followers practice this, but just ignore all that and focus on the physical practice, which is supposed to train you to focus on the sensations that get you to orgasm.]

LadyOrTheTyger

Go for the magic wand.  Every other vibrator I've tried is a 3 or 4.  The magic wand is a 10.  (And the sybian is probably a 20 but is way more spendy)

telyni

@Charlie1975 Thanks. I've heard of OM. I suggested it to my husband, but he wasn't interested. He wouldn't even do the sensate focus exercises where you take turns touching each other without genital focus for fifteen minutes. I think he has a short attention span or something, because he gets bored with stuff like that. He wouldn't even let me do it to him. He just likes PIV. (Like I said, says he wants to do whatever it takes, but then isn't really that interested. I'm kind of confused, honestly. What kind of guy doesn't like to play with his wife?)

@LadyOrTheTyger Okay, I keep hearing about the Hitachi. Guess I'll have to look into it. (I've heard of the sybian too..not going there! Ha!)

Charlie

telyni said:

@Charlie1975 Thanks. I've heard of OM. I suggested it to my husband, but he wasn't interested. He wouldn't even do the sensate focus exercises where you take turns touching each other without genital focus for fifteen minutes. I think he has a short attention span or something, because he gets bored with stuff like that. He wouldn't even let me do it to him. He just likes PIV. (Like I said, says he wants to do whatever it takes, but then isn't really that interested. I'm kind of confused, honestly. What kind of guy doesn't like to play with his wife?)

That was sort of the impression I got. I'm sorry to hear that. I hope you get some other good suggestions here. 

frillyfun

Welcome to the forum!  
There's actually a lot of things you can try.  The Magic Wand is awesome.... it may take a little getting used to, but it will probably get you there.  They make a device that will give you a little more control over the speed too if you find it to be too intense.

I'd also recommend the book "She Comes First" for your husband.  

There are also things like stimulation gels that will increase blood flow to the area to make having an O easier.  

Do you smoke, or are you on any medication  Sometimes that can decrease sensitivity.

How is he at stimulating other erogenous zones?  A little nipple stimulation might help.

Hopefully trying is half the fun, and some of the other folks will chime in with some good tips too.

telyni

@frillyfun Thanks for the ideas. We have She Comes First. I've read it all. My husband read some of it but not all, I think. We tried oral a couple of times and I couldn't feel it much beyond "wet". No smoking, no medications, no known physical issues, as I said. I don't mind nipple stimulation (I enjoy breastfeeding) - it's nice but doesn't seem to help much.

Beatrice

If I understand you correctly, you have never had an orgasm, not even by masturbating?  If that is true, I think that you are trying to go for too much at first hoping that you and your husband will find a technique or product that will give you an orgasm.  If you can't figure out how to orgasm, I don't think there is much hope that he will figure it out.

In reading your triage the overall feeling seems to be that sex has never been anything but boring or painful for you.  You and your husband are both low energy. You want him to step up and bring it in the bedroom in the hope that good sex with an orgasm will occur for you.  I think you need to take ownership of making the orgasm happen with the intention of sharing that with your husband. along with helping him understand how to step up and take some leadership in the bedroom. Maybe you should start with some self-exploration during the time of the month that you are feeling a bit of desire and arousal.

telyni

@Beatrice It's more the other way around, really. Masturbating is what's boring. I have no motivation to do it. I've been at home alone thinking, "now would be a good time to grab the vibe and practice" and I just have no urge to do it. PIV is pretty awesome while I'm doing it, it's just not satisfying afterward because I never get to orgasm. I theorize this is because I don't have high attraction to him and don't usually get turned on mentally. Hope that makes sense.

telyni

Also, I know there's the idea that you have to own your orgasm or whatever. I know I need to figure out what works for me and then I can share it with him. I get that. No I'm not necessarily looking for the one product that will work. Maybe the magic wand is magic and that's all I'll need. I haven't ruled it out, but I also am not too hopeful. I would hope to someday be successful with a variety of techniques. All I'm saying is that I see fundamental relationship issues that I need my husband's help to address and I need advice on addressing them. It takes two, you know?

dalef

I can tell you from experience that it is very frustrating for a man when he can't bring his woman to orgasm (my first lover was that way). Years later I found out that it was her multiple sclerosis that was the problem (although a cheap vibrator worked, as she found out while dating her next BF).

DaddyOh

I know you have a young son, but your hubby needs to get off that computer and that couch. Nothing sexy bout that. 
Before you know it, you'll be starting an "I'm not attracted to my hubby" thread
You're getting great advice here. Passion and desire help with the big O

Husband3point0

If you do get the Hitachi, don't splurge for some expensive way to get speed control. The Hitachi is an alternating current device. So, use a simple dimmer switch like I describe here: http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/comment/475889#Comment_475889

It actually turns the Hitachi into the ultimate massager for other cases too, especially those like high on your neck where you don't want to use a really high setting for safety purposes. 

ETA -- I agree with @Beatrice as well btw. It's very frustrating for a man to be the one to try and introduce his wife to her body and give her pleasures that she doesn't know how to establish for herself. It can quickly drive that man into despair and hopelessness when he feels like he's tasked with mastering her body more than his wife is, and with less information (he can't feel what you feel).

HildaCorners

Welcome! I'm another 5w4.

As we say about other issues, first, make sure there are no medical issues.

Have you discussed your lack of O with your OB/GYN? While he/she may not know much about orgasms, perhaps they could refer you to someone who does know. You need to get checked out to make sure there's no physical problem.

I also don't like that sex therapist's approach. You should be getting specific exercises to do, exercises that have you explore yourself sexually and find your erotic feelings. Reading won't give you an orgasm, actions will. Because @Beatrice is right, you need to do the base work on your own, so you can tell your husband what works.

You don't have to tell us, but could there be a psychological block? Did you grow up in a very sex negative faith? Is there sexual abuse, or possible repressed abuse in your past? If so, you'll need a skilled therapist to help you untangle that.

redheaded_woman

Welcome! I guess you can see we just jump right into it here! LOL

What's he doing to turn you on to have sex?
 

LadyOrTheTyger

Orgasms definitely happen more easily once you figure out how to have one on your own.  Your body has to learn how to let it happen.  I had my first several in my 20's with a vibrator; then I found I was able to have them with a partner once I'd figured out my own body.

Avalinette

Welcome @telyni. You have my sympathy. Your hubby needs to learn that it's the guy's job to initiate, just being available is not good enough. However, you may need to be more proactive in upping sex frequency yourself. Can you effect something like a change in household routine where every night after kid is in bed, it's grown up time.

Having more frequent sex will help you guys practice and help your body practice what feeling turned on is like. Also, women have a responsive sex drive so you may get more turned on with encounters close to each other ( eg every night  or morning and night). I find on successive nights I get more turned on and closer to orgasm; if I have a break of a few days my body just kinda shuts down the sex part and needs to be woken up again.

Avalinette

You'll probably find that breastfeeding dampens things a bit. I've been told that a woman physically can't orgasm for thirty minutes after finishing a feed. That said, I'm passionate about breast feeding and feed frequently and haven't noticed a reduction in desire/ turned on ness related to feeding myself.