CartB4Horse's MAP v 1.2

CartB4Horse

@Angeline - very insightful comments, thank you.

I'm not sure if the alcohol thing is the egg or the chicken.  I was a people pleaser long before I drank my first drop. I was raised mostly by my mother while my dad worked shift work.

I've almost always covered things up. Nothing in NMMNG rang as loud as that fact when I read it. I think I may be getting close to getting past the fear and talking with my wife when something goes wrong is the best way to get better in that regard.

Lenny

I had a similar level of fear at home, but not at work. I can handle the CFO at work but not a home, fear is odd. For me, I started to do what works at work. Share little things, this builds trust and soon there is no fear in sharing little things. W has a better understanding and surprise to me, but not the 2x4 wielders on the forum, it all went well. Fast toward, now I'm sharing more and generally not afraid of W reaction. It tends to be supportive and good counsel. Now I'm not acting all pissy and holding better frame when I do it, not bitching or moaning. The fear of being wrong or not worthy etc is fading. I'm now seeing it as a chance to build RC. In 2017 I now have a goal to kick fear in the nuts, then stomp on him when he's on the ground.

Jek

Hiya @CartB4Horse

Yeah, I agree with the egg n chicken comparison with alcohol.  
I am going to babble some shit about being an alcoholic.

I have only attended about a dozen AA meetings back in '95 when I got a DUI.  Honestly, they made me want to drink because they talked so much about drinking!  They blamed everything on drinking.  Everything negative was DIRECTLY blamed on the alcohol.

  People would say,"This or that happened and I just wanted to go home and get drunk so I would forget."  Ok, fine.  But that made me think that I wasnt an alcoholic because I didnt drink for a reason.  Alcohol isnt a cause and effect thing like that.  There is definitely cause/effect, but not like that.  I drank because I liked it.  I didnt justify it, I just drank.  Alcohol is awesome to celebrate, unwind, gear up, mellow out, with pork chops, fishing, frustration, or when things are just normal everyday fuckin same old same.  But in AA, or society, it is easier to find the culprit because you can "fix" that, so I think it becomes easier to just find it.

my lord, this is going nowhere...

ok, anyway.  Let me interject a perspective.  Started drinking when I was 13.  I got into a lot of trouble, spent time in and out of jail. I quit drinking at about 26, when my wife told me that she was pregnant.  Didnt drink a drop for 9 years!!!  Then my wife wanted to start going to clubs, and convinced me that I could handle it, because my life was better than it was back when I drank.  Logic was there, so I drank a beer.  In that moment, I was back on the wagon for another 7 years.  

So guess what?  I have graduated to "functional alcoholic"!  Sweet!  Life is good.

The alcohol is like a tree in your back yard that you dont really need there.  You cant really play baseball with the kids, cuz everyone has to run around it to get to third.  But everyone adapts to it, and they learn to use it.  You can steal third base, cuz you can use the tree as cover, right on.  And you, since the tree has become "normal", you go and plant some flowers around it with a little red brick wall.  There, looks good, well done.  And everyone else accepts it.  

   Oh shit.
Now you are more fucked than when your drinking was an obvious problem, because everyone around you is functional too.  There is no glaring problem to fix.

...I am late for work.  If you want me to babble more, there is more, just let me know.

TooEarlyTooLate

Jek, I am not sure where you are going there.  @CartB4Horse I would venture a guess but I doubt your problem is really with the alcohol as much as your aversion to standing up for yourself and dealing with your problems.  Alcohol just makes the problems go away for a while but creates more.  

I feel your NG shit.  It is not just being nice it is the consistent and continuous lying.  Yep, I am there.  Coaching with @Serenity is really helping me find my perspective because I have none.  I have been wrong about so many things I was so RIGHT about before or at least I thought I was right before.  Looking at things differently, setting firm boundaries hurts and is stressful but the other side is so comforting.  Once you are comfortable in your boundaries and your ability to deal with things, everything is more enjoyable.  I really really think you need a personal coach in @Athol_Kay or @Serenity. Going this alone would have been impossible for me.    

I read a twit the other day from a women and it said "I don't have to be happy to be happy".  It really made me stop and think about what truly make my wife happy.  Just because the things you do in life might not make your wife happy outwardly, knowing them might make her so much happier.  Slay the dragons, this shit is hard.  

CartB4Horse

Lenny said:

I had a similar level of fear at home, but not at work. I can handle the CFO at work but not a home, fear is odd. For me, I started to do what works at work. Share little things, this builds trust and soon there is no fear in sharing little things. W has a better understanding and surprise to me, but not the 2x4 wielders on the forum, it all went well. Fast toward, now I'm sharing more and generally not afraid of W reaction. It tends to be supportive and good counsel. Now I'm not acting all pissy and holding better frame when I do it, not bitching or moaning. The fear of being wrong or not worthy etc is fading. I'm now seeing it as a chance to build RC. In 2017 I now have a goal to kick fear in the nuts, then stomp on him when he's on the ground.

@Lenny - Same here. I have slayed it at work, dealt with huge clients, sold large deals, worked with upper management and yet I am afraid of my little wife.  WTF?

I will work thru this, one event at a time.

CartB4Horse

@Jek - Bring it, always good to hear others perspectives.

I don't want to claim to be a 'special snowflake' where everything is different in my world BUT....

The thing that made me stop drinking was that I would go out to a bar, usually with the guys from work, drink too much and then drive home.  Rinse and repeat 8-9 times in a few years and you get the idea.

My wife said she was done and started packing.  She didn't give me an ultimatum as she had before, she prepared to depart.

I had a call with Athol where he and I talked things over.  I told him I didn't want my wife to leave and we discussed how I could present this to my wife which would save my marriage, for now.

I haven't wanted to drink since.  I just don't need it. I don't care if people are drinking around me, good for them. I don't need meetings and support and a whole line of things to keep me from making a choice that I've already made, not to drink.

Now I'm moving beyond that. I'm working on ways that I can have fun being myself, not being reserved or shy, letting ME get out in social gatherings. I'm doing well with this, starting to AMOG groups. I'm a funny guy, I have people rolling in laughter all the time. I found that I don't need alcohol to do that, it's all inside me.

CartB4Horse

TooEarlyTooLate said:

Jek, I am not sure where you are going there.  @CartB4Horse I would venture a guess but I doubt your problem is really with the alcohol as much as your aversion to standing up for yourself and dealing with your problems.  Alcohol just makes the problems go away for a while but creates more.   

@TooEarlyTooLate - Winner, winner, chicken dinner!

This stuff is Nice Guy Behavior (NGB). Alcohol was a side issue, a symptom and definitely an escape.

Coaching will be in my future (with Athol). I can't imagine anyone as good at doing this as he is. I don't have the time and money to school a therapist on Nice Guy Behavior and running a MAP; might as well go to the Master!

Despite what many here may feel, I have no doubts that NGB can be destroyed with MAPing.

Angeline

CartB4Horse said:

Despite what many here may feel, I have no doubts that NGB can be destroyed with MAPing.

see, this is you setting up fake battles and fake adversaries. No one has said anything of the sort, in fact that is a huge component of success for most people here, male or female. Is it to make you feel unique and super powered? It is definitely annoying, if you're doing this in real life.

I'm glad to hear you intend to make coaching happen. The very best of luck to you, truly- 

CartB4Horse

@Angeline - I can't thank you enough for all the help you've given me.  You always make me think.

I wish you and your family a bright future.

TooEarlyTooLate

For me it is not NGB at issue, it just my perspective.  There are no demons to beat.  You just have to change the way you think.  What you thought was right or true is not.  As an example, when I started truly caring for my wife and her health problems I stopped being scared of my wife.  My vision changed.  I stopped focusing on fear and on help which I am good at.  My next big hurdle is understanding that sex does not come as a result of being nice, it comes as a result of leading and being dominate in the bedroom.  There is no bad guy or bad disease it is only your perspective that needs to change.  There is absolutely nothing wrong with being nice and friendly as long as you are not trying to solve problems with your actions.  
I had a situation at work where an employee came to me to talk about the actions of my boss.  In the past I felt it was my job to intervene. Instead I had the confidence to understand that it was their problem to work out and I did not need to apologize for either one of them, nor did I need to feel bad or somehow responsible.  

What has helped me the most...stopping and thinking instead of reacting?  

I do hope for the best for you and hope that you will spend the money on coaching.  It is funny,  I have had sessions with both Athol and Serenity and both have largely told me very similar things but for some reason Serenity beating me up sits easier and I am more open with her.  Maybe this is a NG thing or just that all through my life the women are the strong ones that I listened to.  To each his own though.  Godspeed my friend.     

CartB4Horse

Good luck to all of you and a very Merry Christmas (and Happy New Year!)

I'll be over at the Refugee Camp for now.....

Jek

Oh, I read slow, didnt know you stopped.

good job