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Forced the issue 2nd vehicle - did I handle this wrong
mrsthing
New YorkMember Posts: 258
So..for about 4 years my H refused to let us buy a second car. We live in a rural area and you can do absolutely nothing without a car. I worried that if there was an emergency, we'd be screwed if say, he had the car and I needed to take the dog to the emergency clinic. It was starting to get ridiculous as he works away from home more and needs the car more. The final straw for me came when he called me on a business trip and told me I had to postpone my return as well as cancel a dr's appointment I had a few days later b/c he needed the car!
What I did then was immediately go online and find a suitable second vehicle. Then I emailed it to him, called him and said something along the lines of "I feel that we need a second car. I have done the research (I'm a gearhead so this wasn't hard) and think that this is a great car and a great deal. Here are the upgrades that we need to have to protect it from weather damage etc. I am going to go to the dealership to check it out when I get home. I would like for you to come with me." To which he said yes, and we purchased an even nicer vehicle that same day! Not only that, he told the dealer over and over again "sell to her. this is going to be her truck. she needs to choose." It is actually a pickup truck, which is a practical vehicle for our lifestyle. Yes, I'm a chick driving a massive pickup and I'm sure many people are shocked to see me climb out of the driver's side in my heels.
But I'm wondering - did I Captain him when I should not have? What I did worked and he is thrilled with the truck beyond words.
Comments
Congrats on the new truck!
@frillyfun I have to do this A LOT. My husband has Aspergers which for him means that he has issues with spending money. He doesn't want to spend money on any large items, ever, no matter how necessary they are. We literally have to be almost in emergency status for him to be okay with it and I have to step up. I dislike it, and yes, attraction killer big time.
That said, I don't think it is all Aspergers, I think it is partially how he was raised. I have never in my life met anyone as frugal as his mom. Shockingly so, to the point that she wears shoes and clothes with giant holes in them. And she's insanely proud of using that one teabag for months (okay that's an exaggeration but not far off)! At one point I actually told her I was going to throw her shoes away (she was walking in a downpour with those holey shoes, feet soaked) and buy new ones, and that made her do so.
I grew up poor. There's nothing I hate worse than people being so frugal when they are financially ok b/c I really had holes in my shoes and no choice in the matter. I really had to do without many essentials b/c we couldn't afford them. I worked very hard to change my life. I don't get this behavior at all.
At one point, my H suggested we move into a trailer to save $. Nothing wrong with living in a trailer but I make a great living, we live below our means as it is, and again I had to take the lead here and tell him this was not necessary. I was SHOCKED that he was even serious. He told me that if I wasn't in the picture, he'd 100% be living in a trailer and saving like there was no tomorrow. Of course without me, there'd be a lot less money coming in, but he still would not need to live in a trailer.
You DHV in every single way you know how, and are here asking for more ways to be a better wife. Which is awesome, and I know you've been through a lot, but you've also accomplished a lot too.
Take control of the finances if that's how he's going to behave. Anyone who thinks living in a trailer in NY is a good idea is just someone you don't want Captaining the checkbook. I've lived in a trailer- it's cheaper to live in a house because trailers cost a ton to heat.
I think you're close to Laid, Trayed, and Maid territory. You're not here because you don't have your personal act together. You're here because of mate selection, and because you let him get away with his BS.
You earn a lot of the money that comes in, so not having a second car shouldn't have ever been an issue. You should have stood up for yourself much earlier. That's just the tip of the iceberg.
I'm not thinking especially clearly today- I have a cold, and it's the day before Thanksgiving, but submitting, and trying to hand him leadership opportunities aren't going to get you the changes that you want/need.
Being done-like you said on your other thread is a good frame. It's time for him to come up to your level. Get your solid GO plan in place. Think really hard about what you want from him, schedule a coaching call, and start hitting phase 4, 5, and 6 if you have to.
You are the breadwinner. So when you said for four years "we need a new car" and he said "no" what kept you from responding "it wasn't a question." ?
For four years you handed your power over to someone who did nothing to earn it. Why? Contemplate that, rather than feeling guilty for finally standing up for yourself.
@frillyfun - I'm sorry that I post all over the place. I agree 100% he needs to come up to my level. I also could create a GO plan very easily - I rent another room in an apartment in a city I travel to frequently for work, I could just move there. I have good income. Most assets are in my name. We don't own a home. No kiddos to worry about. I'm not young (mid 40s) but I do think if I wanted another partner, I'd find one. I'm a lot more confident now. This is of course, not what I really want. I want to try to stay.
I agree with you and @Scarlet that I should have stood up earlier. And I know exactly why I didn't. I was badly abused as a kid, and in several really bad relationships. The bad is familiar to me. But things were not always bad. My husband didn't used to be a beta schlub. He was a perfect balance of alpha and beta. I didn't know those terms at the time, but I think this is what I fell in love with. He captained our relationship and did it well. He was the breadwinner then but I also made good $. We had a lot of fun and I think things were just easier.
Four years ago I began to be very depressed. We moved out of a city to a rural area - which is something I actually always wanted but then things went south. New memories of my childhood abuse started coming back. I could barely drag myself out of bed, but I had to work b/c I was the only one making $ - my husband had another business that was making $ but not enough yet. It was one of the low points of my life. My husband had to really take care of me. I was so unhappy and desperate.
When that ended - my husband was like a shell of his former self. He said to me how although he was happy to "have me back better than ever" that he no longer knew how to respond to me.
I have tended to choose a beta schlub guy over and over. My husband wasn't this way at first, but now he's like the others. I know why I did this - for one thing, I wanted to be with someone "safe". My college buddy used to say I went for "namby pamby" guys. I did so b/c I didn't want an alcoholic, drug abuser, criminal who beat me - my mom had all of those, often rolled into the same guy. Her husband raped me for years, I was raped by others too. I had boyfriends who hit me, were very possessive. Sometimes these seemingly harmless guys turned out to be very abusive.
I think back to my college days when the guys who were attracted me were the alpha male types. I mean, the guys that every girl wanted. My roommate used to joke that there was a line outside our room and that they were not lining up for her. I had zero self esteem - the whole thing was shocking. I could not understand why any of these guys wanted me. I rejected many of this type of person b/c I was scared - also, I wasn't really up for being sexual or having another super possessive guy.
After college I was in another abusive relationship but then with help from a therapist, I got out. I dated some really good guys, finally met a really good guy and we were together for a few years. This guy was no schlub - he was good looking, smart, talented and interesting. He was wanted me back for years but he broke my heart so badly and I'm scared to even talk to him again, I keep putting him off.
Things all changed for my H and I after we got married. My H was no schlub either but I'm afraid he's a namby pamby guy now. My fault I'm afraid.
Frankly my dear, you are the beta schlub. I don't mean that as an insult. You're the one dancing around him and all fretful that he's offended that you insisted on buying a necessary item with money you earn. The answer is not to coddle and dance on eggshells more - quite the opposite! The answer is to stop coddling, refuse to tiptoe, stand up for yourself, and stop beta orbiting him.
@Scarlet I 100% agree with you. I just don't know how to stop orbiting him. I'm not sure. I have read the books over and over. What now - I just control everything? Make all decisions? If so, what use is this whole marriage? I need an equal. I did not want to have kids, I don't want to raise my husband!
I did decide one thing - I want him to get work. I make more than enough to support us and he is starting a business (which I am involved in) but he can certainly work part time. He's very accomplished and could easily find something. I told our counselor this just now in an email. I am fully prepared to walk if this does not happen.
I have also decided that I will hire an assistant to help with my own work. I actually asked HIM if I could do this and I realized WTF I am asking him? I need to ask my accountant if there's money for this - and I do think she will says yes.
Exactly. Stop asking him. Just do the things that need to be done. Hopefully he catches up but maybe he doesn't. You can't really make him be a functional adult.
The two big things are that you stop dancing around and asking him for permission to do reasonable things, and you stop propping him up. He needs to feel the consequences of his own decisions. An example in retrospect is that if he does not want the two of you to have a second car, then the one car is primarily yours and he is the one stuck at home when you need to be somewhere.
From what I've seen, your husband will *never* be a top quality Captain. Not all men can be Captains ... and it sounds like he just doesn't have the ability.
This doesn't mean your marriage is doomed. As long as he is still attractive to you, you can make things work. He may be able to Captain in the bedroom, or he may have an area of expertise that blows you away, but an Aspie is unlikely to be an all-around top-notch Captain.
So, you'll have no choice but to take the lead sometimes. If you give him reasons, he's likely to follow, or even lead on that one issue, as happened with the second car.
Aspies tend to resist change, and also to be low dopamine (or very, very high, but that's not your husband). Old clothing is comfortable, and known ... new clothes mean a shopping trip and may feel weird. So old clothing it is.
As I said in the other thread ... you have to understand your needs so well that you can set your own limits and boundaries, make them clear to your husband, and be prepared to take action if he can't meet them. [Remember, it's not "won't", but "can't." the ability may just not be there, just like a blind man can't experience a rainbow.]
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
Get your budget together if it isn't. You're the breadwinner- you should be Captaining this. Find out how much you need to live on, put away for retirement/emergencies. Then you have a good picture of what you need your H to contribute in order to feel like your marriage is a partnership of equals. It's going to give you a more definite goal to aim for rather than just "he needs to get a job".
You'll also know how much you need to come up with, so you don't have to ask anyone else if you can afford an employee (although asking your accountant about becoming an employer is a good idea). Once you know what you need, and have a goal to work towards then you can see if adding an employee might help you expand your bottom line to help get you closer to those goals.
The biggest glaring red I see right now is that you're not currently in therapy. You've been through some hellish things, and you've brought up your abuse several times as a reason you're having issues making progress, and staying in sub-optimal relationships.
It's time to start fixing that.
The way you stop orbiting is by focusing on yourself, and fixing your reds. You need to get to a point where you're rock solid, and don't need a caretaker because you might relapse into a crippling depression. Until you do that he's always going to have more leverage.
It turned out ok, but I think it would have been much better to make a STRONG case for the second vehicle before going to the dealership. Buying a car isn't the same thing as buying a new sweater.
Plus, be careful what you wish for...if you start taking charge of things, you may find yourself less attracted to him. I obviously can't speak to this as I'm not a woman, but I've watched it happen several times before.
Years ago, my wife complained to me that the bed in our spare bedroom -- as in the bed that no one slept on normally -- had an uncomfortable mattress. Her grandmother was coming to visit for a few days, and she didn't want her to be uncomfortable during her stay. I checked into how much it would cost to replace the mattress, found out it was actually a few hundred dollars, and decided Gram would not disown us over having to sleep on a mattress that was 20 years old. Money was fairly tight at the time.
My wife then called the furniture store without my knowledge and ordered an entirely brand new bed (not just a mattress) for Grandma to sleep on for four days. Being my wife, she of course ordered something high end instead of a basic model, because nothing is too good for Gram.
I was furious. When I asked her about it, she said "You didn't take care of this, so I made an executive decision and took care of it myself." From her point of view, she was fixing a problem I had ignored. I was livid that she had made a major purchase she knew I would object to, wasting money on something that wouldn't be used more than a few days a year. And, yes, I felt emasculated. That #*@! bed was a source of arguments for months.
If he wants to keep the family afloat then he can do it by getting a job.
Yes, if she has to Captain she'll lose attraction for him, but he's not stepping into that role, so it's a natural consequence for his poor choices. Someone has to take charge, and he's shown that he isn't up to the task in the finance department.
“She was 3/4 perfection and 1/4 broken glass.”
When someone treats you badly
you recognize it.
Thank you so much everyone for your comments! I could never have guessed that a thread about a new truck could prove so helpful! I have taken everyone's advice and been really, really trying to stop the walking eggshells thing.
@HildaCorners - your familiarity with Aspergers is very helpful. It also occurs to me - maybe I don't need a "top quality" Captain? My husband does take the lead in certain areas, and he does do some things that build attraction for me - he's into rugby and training to play in a league again. I SO want this to happen - selfishly b/c I think him playing rugby is the hottest thing I can imagine.
@frillyfun - I actually am in therapy. But my current therapist wants me to find someone specifically who deals with PTSD. He referred one person who really didn't work out, he's trying to find another for me. But yes, I need to make that job #1.
That said - even a debilitating depression like the one I experienced a few years ago would never take me down. Nothing has ever taken me down, I'm the toughest, strongest person I know. I do what needs to be done, always. I leaned on my H b/c he was there and willing to help and for what was the first time in my life, I let someone help me. but I still worked every day, saw friends and did my thing. Just not on turbo like I am now.
We are actually quite on top of finances, I am Captain there. My husband is great about budgeting, saving etc. but we both agree that I need to Captain this area of our lives b/c he is very skittish about large purchases that are often necessities, which of course sometimes need to happen.
@Cowboy ;I would never have gone ahead and bought a truck on my own. I would have gone to look at them on my own and made a stronger case for the purchase is H did not get on board though. I made a very strong case for the purchase and I think this is why he responded positively - I did a lot of online research, talked to other truck owners about what they liked/did not like about their vehicles. I am not used to behaving this way, but I am learning to stand up for myself. My husband has Aspergers and I need to, as others have said, know my boundaries.
And here's how you all have helped me - this holiday weekend I was really feeling DONE with H. I mean DONE. I told him that after our guests left, we would need to have a serious talk about a few issues that are not an option for me. One of these of course is that he needs to generate income, and needs to begin doing so within a set time frame (six months). The other one is that he needs to get a vasectomy - he has been promising to do this and waffling. We don't want kiddos and I don't see why this can't happen already. The third was getting his weight down and getting in shape but that he is making great progress on.
When the guests left, I confronted him about both issues, and told him that I need both of these things in order to feel comfortable and stay married to him. He knows that I have been considering leaving, it has come up in counseling with the Aspergers counselor, who has been instrumental in helping him to understand that I'm serious about ending our marriage if need be. H was very open actually, he told me he was glad that I was so straightforward about my needs. He is now going to pick up freelance work while continuing to work on building the business, and I saw him working on this today. He told me he will make the call about the vasectomy this week.
I'll update the situation in a week or two. He knows now that I am not playing around though.
“She was 3/4 perfection and 1/4 broken glass.”
I've been surrounded by a lot of Aspergers in my life ... one husband, several relatives, me, the other kids in a special ed program one of my kids was in (my kid wasn't Aspie but had similar issues). As a 5w4, I research everything to death, so have read a lot about Aspergers as well. I've applied what I learned.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
Thanks all. I am not able to be on here often lately. I am realizing that as @HildaCorners said, rigid works well. I have told my husband many things lately explicitly, in terms that would probably offend or upset most people. I told him "you need to kiss me more" for example, and now he does. I told him he needs to plan more dates for us, and he has done this several times. I told him if he wants to initiate sex, to go ahead, he was nervous about this before since I had a hard I have put down a list of the things I need, and they seem to be happening more - small things and big ones, like the income issue. He's doing some freelance work already.
I even told him he needs to get new clothing b/c he lost 50 pounds and all his clothes are all ripped up and falling off and he needs to wear the new things - b/c he got new clothes in the past and refused to wear them b/c he liked the feeling of the old clothes. I honestly used to be very ashamed to go places with him, he looked like a homeless man. Not only did he get new things (and a lot which is great, I wanted him to and money was not an issue for me here - the man hasn't bought new things in years and his pants are literally falling down), but he wears the great new things all the time now. He asked a stylish friend to help him shop and the result was awesome. He seems more confident and happy, and I tell him how great he looks all the time. And last night I looked at him and said "You look sexy like you did when we first met!" b/c he did, and he knows how great looking I thought he was then.
I'm not 100% attracted yet, but I think it is improving. I looked at him last night and was very attracted again. I feel really, really bad about this b/c he is really trying very hard.