How to Hold Frame With Your Kids

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  • SaigoTakamoriSaigoTakamori FLSilver Member Posts: 3,075

    Bear with me here:

    I had a fantastic mom tell me this once:  You have to love them enough to, kill them, before you will let them be undisciplined..

    Sounds psychotic at face value until you consider it,  having that much internal drive and focus on the future.. no way they can deter you and take you away from victory.

    consider

    Sorry, but nope, that sounds psychotic.


    I am not surprised.. yet we pine for the days of yesteryear. and ask:

    What is wrong with the youth of America?

    Why is infidelity on the rise?   Why are strong marriages on the decline?

    Why is violent crime on the rise, single parent homes, disenfranchised adults teens and tweens...


    Building foundations have to be strong it is tough work,   yet every one is looking at the damn drapes and commenting on the wall coverings.


    BTW fwiw  all 3 of her kids.. 

    1 went to ole miss got her law degree practices in DC, married 2 kids, leads local charity for food pantry

    #2 Biology Masters Florida, works in south FL for marine mammal preservation or some thing

    #3  Formal school was not his cup of tea, went to community college, AC certification... owns a 13 truck ac company in FL.  Married 14 years 3 kids... just won over 50 amateur lightweight bjj tourn. last month


    Action not words


    not the ONLY way to do it.. still pretty effective from what I see

    Sweat More...bitch less
    Fate favors the prepared.
  • SaigoTakamoriSaigoTakamori FLSilver Member Posts: 3,075
    edited December 2015
    Purple said:
    mook_z said:
    Purple said:

     "Remember the point is not to scare them into compliance." 
    Why not?
    My dad was scary to me when I was a child. He was so big and imposing and just... scary. He never did anything worse than yell at us, and I'm submissive and conflict-avoidant anyway, so I was a fairly well behaved child most of the time. But he scared us into compliance. He only had to be loud and it was scary enough...
    Word. 

    @mook_z  You can also unintentionally raise a child who becomes an adult who is frightened of even the smallest display of anger from ANYONE.

      This will leave your kids vulnerable to psychopathic personalities who will take advantage of their general fear of everything to crash right through their boundaries. You will watch them hurt a lot if they get into a relationship with one. 

      This is what happened to me as a result of my parents fear-based parenting style. For me as an adult, my avoidance of conflict through fear has been so extreme I've had the abusive people in my life bully me into activities that were even illegal.

     I've had to have a crap-load of therapy to unlearn these self-destructive patterns and develop enough of a backbone to have any emotionally boundaries at all.

      I'm old enough now that I no longer blame my parents for how they raised me because they were raised the same way and didn't know any better. But I'd be lying if I said the road to this particular head-space wasn't long and difficult.

    umm *throws yellow bull larkry flag*  that is a choice You made to do those things.  

    That's an easy thing to say in retrospect...but when someone twice your size and weight puts their hands around your neck and tells you you're going to do what they want or they're going to choke you until you relent, the opportunity to take another breath becomes a lot more important at the moment than questions about the legality of what you're being told to do. 


    look, we can play this game,  

    Sorry that happened to you.... TRULY


    Lets change your language a bit.. Imagine if:

    "That's an easy thing to say in retrospect...but when someone twice your size and weight puts their hands around your neck and tells you you're going to do what they want or they're going to choke you until you relent,"........  It was at that moment Saigo, I realized I Had Strength I would not live in the fear of the past. WILL NOT BE A VICTIM , screamed in my head.   I took action.  Like a cornered animal protecting her young, I lashed out, I drove my fingers straight out and into his eyes.. He staggered back, I ran to a safe place.

    Another possible outcome perhaps?  Good self talk is good Bad self talk..Real Bad

    You are  Immensely Powerful.  Never forget that.

    Sweat More...bitch less
    Fate favors the prepared.
  • SaigoTakamoriSaigoTakamori FLSilver Member Posts: 3,075
    Better days today Purps?
    Sweat More...bitch less
    Fate favors the prepared.
    Purple
  • PurplePurple Silver Member Posts: 793
    Better days today Purps?
    For the most part.

    Kid#2 is sick... he's thrown up 3 times today. So he's super chilled out because he doesn't feel good.

    However, #1 was a total turd the entire walk home from school. Kept darting ahead, wouldn't cross the street with me, wouldn't come inside when I told him to. What upset me the most was that he wouldn't cross the street with me - that shit just don't fly with me. This isn't me wanting him to pick up his toys or something, this is a road safety thing, and we've had very basic rules about it since Day 1. Look both ways before stepping into the street, never step in front of a running vehicle, and stay by me at all times. Today he decided to refuse to cross the street with me, then ran off up the street and refused to come back. Meanwhile I'm at the bottom of the hill with a 4 year old (who didn't feel great) and a 7 week baby strapped to my chest - I can't go running after him. I was LIVID.

    When we got home and I finally got his ass in the house, I put him in the corner. He got a high starting point because of how big and important the rule he broke was - so he started at 15 minutes (usually I start at like 5...). He started crying and whining about it and I added a minute. He shut up immediately, and stood there fairly quietly for the whole 16 minutes. He wanted me to stop his time out so that he could go to the bathroom. I told him he can stand there and hold it, or he can stand there and pee himself - but he isn't leaving the corner. And if he pees himself, he has to wash it up. He didn't wet his pants and he didn't leave the corner. After he "served his time" and sprinted to the bathroom at top speed, he came back out and apologized for what he did.

    I never lost my temper on him, though he got a serious scolding while I was leading him to the corner. So that's progress I think. After walks home like that I see why some people literally put their children on leashes. I feel like instead of a leash, I need to tell him about the little 6 or 7 year old boy who was walking crossing the street a few years ago and was run over by a bus and was killed. Busses can't stop on the snowy/icy streets like this. These things really DO happen.

    Later in the evening, the boys were fighting. #1 got punched, and tried to tattle about it so that #2 would get in trouble. However I'd been watching the entire thing. I let them fight it out, because intervening generally means I'm going to catch a stray punch, and my younger kid can really throw a good one. So I told #1, "You can step away from the fight at any point. But as you continue to choose to engage in the punching and kicking, you are putting yourself at risk for getting hurt. Getting punched in the face is your own damn fault. If you don't like it, step away from him and go do something else." 

    He totally opted to continue punching and kicking, but he didn't try to get me to pick sides again at least. 

    There is joy in this path, too.

    AngelineMoon_Girl
  • SaigoTakamoriSaigoTakamori FLSilver Member Posts: 3,075

    Every one is still alive, fed, clothed,safe, Annnnnnd no ER visits

    ...Lets call that a Win for the day!

    Sweat More...bitch less
    Fate favors the prepared.
    PurpleHowlAtTheMoonMoon_Girl
  • HowlAtTheMoonHowlAtTheMoon Silver Member Posts: 1,183
    As a parent who has always lived in high traffic city neighborhoods, wrist leashes have been very helpful. Lol. My kids even ask for them. No one around here bats an eye at a wrist leash, but that's because getting run down by a speeding taxi is an all too common occurrence. 
    We just use a nylon strap with a velcro loop at the end to go around the wrist. The other end I attach to the stroller. The kids could easily undo the strap if they wanted. It is much more a mental tether than a physical one. 

    It won't stop a kid from refusing to cross though. My son went through that and has grown out of it now. I find his attitude changes if I "recruit" him to help with the younger kids and insinuate that his role in helping me is important. 
    Purple
  • PurplePurple Silver Member Posts: 793
    He usually crosses very happily with me, and there is a huge display of Christmas lights right where we cross at, so crossing this time of year is usually exciting! Lol. We don't live on a high traffic street, although the after-school traffic can be terrifying...... there is a crossing guard to get us across that street though.

    We'll see how it goes this afternoon. Hopefully he does better!

    There is joy in this path, too.

  • beribbonedberibboned caMember Posts: 359
    I have one almost-three-year-old who loves a lot of attention but is pretty easy to lead with cheerleading. "Wow, look at all these towels we've folded!" And "I'm so happy to be under the covers and snuggling, I could just pass out!" Sometimes if I'm stressed I will play ditzy 50s housewife urgently getting stuff done and that gets my son laughing (he knows I'm sort of kidding) and me laughing too. 
    I agree with you, Purple, that there's enough scary shit in this world without adding to it. My parents had three close together, and my mom handled the stress better than my dad. Her frame was more flexible and she enjoyed us and loved us as individuals. From my dad's perspective I was the difficult spirited child which is ironic because actually I wanted to please but his frame was so rigid and also not clear. My mom yelled sometimes but it was always clear she was crazy about us. 
    Congratulations on your newborn. You sound like your doing great even with the scary street crossing! 
  • EANxEANx Local GroupSilver Member Posts: 509
    The thing I found most important is effective communication. The kids have to understand what you mean and that will vary based on age. You also have to only get upset about rules that have been violated, getting upset with the kid about something they haven't been told simply confuses them. And last, only threaten a punishment you're actually willing to follow through with. And yes, sometimes the punishment does inconvenience the parent as well. Thems the breaks of parenting.
    PurpleAngeline
  • dalefdalef Silver Member Posts: 1,963
    One thing not to do is the preemptive prohibition. My mother told me I could not have a car in High School; the let my brother have one. It caused a lot of unnecessary pain, and if she had waited until I asked to have one to say no, it would never have happened, since I never wanted one in high school).
  • dalefdalef Silver Member Posts: 1,963
    @HildaCorners Those are my daughters ages as well.
  • dalefdalef Silver Member Posts: 1,963
    When your kids are really young, read whatever you want to read to them. A six month old doesn't understand any you could read to them, but will still learn the rhythm of sounds of the language. (when I first started reading to my daughter, I would read technical books from work (grad level technical material).
    Purple
  • mook_zmook_z Gold Men Posts: 1,267
    Purple said:
    One tiny thing I've changed that has made a big difference is using a timer for time outs. I was just watching the clock and releasing them... now I set the timer on the microwave or on my phone and they stand there until it goes off. No idea why, but it seems to be helping.

    I do the same. I set a timer and say, "I'm setting a timer and you can come out when it beeps."  One thing that I HATED as a kid is that I felt my parents were arbitrary with rule enforcement and punishment. I couldn't have faith in the rules because they changed on a whim.  Something I've tried to do with my kids is be more consistent about Standards (capital S) even when I'm in the wrong. Rules are very special. (Perhaps that's why I'm an engineer.)  
    "you ... are right." - DaddyOh
    AngelinePurpleSaigoTakamoriReborn
  • redheaded_womanredheaded_woman USASilver Member Posts: 4,739
    @saigotakamori Your response to Little Bee has me mad.

    Sure, an armchair quarterback says "Fight that bad guy off".

    But you know what, sometimes it's just not physically possible to stop an attack.

    Sometimes, you just have to survive the attack.

    "Fuck yesterday, make tomorrow awesome." - Tennee
    SaigoTakamoriScarletJellyBean
  • SaigoTakamoriSaigoTakamori FLSilver Member Posts: 3,075
    @saigotakamori Your response to Little Bee has me mad.

    Sure, an armchair quarterback says "Fight that bad guy off".

    But you know what, sometimes it's just not physically possible to stop an attack.

    Sometimes, you just have to survive the attack.

    I can understand you may feel that way, this would not be the place to discuss it as this is purps thread.
    Sweat More...bitch less
    Fate favors the prepared.
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