Trapped in a cycle

craigdf

First the introduction:
We're in our 20s, I'm 6 years older
We've been married for over 2 years
We have a one-year old
Sex is good
We're both generally healthy, I'm very fit, exercise regularly, if I am able (see below). Her weight is good and healthy, but since the kid, she's not been exercising. She still looks stunning, but has occasional pain here and there because she's not moving enough.
I'm the primary income earner. Big career move ahead this year, trying to make a bigger jump. We're living well, but frugally and she's fine with that.
I'm a 5, she's a 4 in the enneagram.

I'm a recovering nice guy, and she's recovering from feminist influence (although she has never been a full-on feminist). We want me to be the leader, but she's currently learning to let me be and I'm learning to be decisive and take charge. We've both had very dominant mothers. She's very sensitive and insecure, far more than the average woman.

We've had some great progress recently. When everything's well, it's amazing. She puts effort into her work, is motivated. When one of us makes a mistake, we quickly work through it. Sex is great.


But we keep falling into the same pattern.

1. She's offended by something I did or did not do/say, which catches me by surprise.

2. I clarify that I didn't intend to hurt her in any way, apologize if my tone was a bit rough.

3. She won't take it and says I don't sound genuine.

4. I start getting annoyed, but don't show it. Instead I try harder showing that I mean it.

5. She keeps resisting which leads to me withdrawing in annoyance.

6. Her insecurity flairs up because she's not getting my attention. She feels abandoned.

7. From here anything goes. I might try engaging and fail. I get frustrated and lose my cool a bit (a few times it's been more than a bit, but those instances are exceptions, albeit shameful). I get annoyed and angry, withdraw. Then I realize she's just hurt and insecure because of past problems in her life and still needs some beta. She stays cold and becomes quite mean, calls me names, says she hates me, etc. and demands ridiculous things from me to prove that I'm serious. For instance, she asked me to say that I've acted in a bitchy way. She insisted on this because I said that about her behaviour a while ago. I don't agree with talking like that, it slipped out, we worked through it and resolved it. Now she brings it up again and uses it against me. She says she can only be reassured of my love and commitment by me giving into this demand. I don't agree that I've been acting bitchy, nor do I want to use that word. By this time I've lost my cool and acted non-perfectly, being more harsh, reactionary and withdrawing, which she uses against me to demand an apology. Usually at some point I do apologize for what I've done wrong and then she follows. But this only works after a while when things have cooled down and my annoyance and anger level has been significantly reduced and I get a grip of my tone of voice.

8. I end up threatening to leave the house if she keeps doing this. She usually keeps doing it and I end up leaving. She accuses me of abandoning her.

9. After some longer or shorter period of time we make up, apologize both, move on and have a good time. Until then she's in everything's-horrible-and-broken-mode, lacks motivation in every respect and keeps saying mean things. It just makes life hard because I have to start doing things that are her responsibility while still doing all of my own work.

10. After a few days the cycle starts again. Recently she's been able to apologize before it got out of hand and I appreciated it. But she's just lost it again.

What's worst for me is that it hinders me from sleeping sometimes. I literally can't sleep because either she tries to keep me engaged, cries or the kid wakes up (unrelated to our issues) and she wants me to help. Just recently she told me she'll take care of it during the nights so I can sleep and go to work on time (I'm flexible on time and she knows it. So technically I can't really be late, but I have my goals of when I want to go and leave, which she also knows about). But next thing I know, she's telling me she needs my help with the kid during an argument because of some ailment of hers and her stress level (She assured me before that she'll be able to do it anyways). I decide to leave and work outside of the house, pulling an all-nighter.
This destroys all my plans I have. I want to exercise, but can't - either because I have to stay longer at work or because I'm too tired after a short night's sleep. And because I want to sleep early enough to get up early, I have to cut my day shorter.

I just want to have a normal sleeping pattern and not have this crap interrupt me in such a big way. I can deal with lots of things, but not allowing me to sleep is just hugely annoying. I don't know what I can do. She's entirely in charge of whether I will get sleep or not. She will not be reasoned with because in her eyes, I'm being incredibly malicious, unloving, impatient and other negative attributes and I must prove my innocence first.
It bugs me especially, because I'm very quick to forgive anything she brings up. I don't drag it out, I don't bring it up again, I forgive and move on content and happy. She instead often times puts the burden of proof that I'm not malicious/looking down on her/being mean on my side and asserts that my tone of voice wasn't helping reassuring her (it's hard to sound very kind, when you're really frustrated, but it doesn't mean I'm lying to her or don't mean what I say).
When these things happen, she's in complete drama-mode. She says our marriage is broken, she's trapped, nothing will ever be good again, her life is ruined, etc.
Always looking forward to resolving things, but I'm wondering how many times we can go through this cycle until we won't be able to fix it anymore.

That's it for now. Looking forward to some interaction.

PS: Athol predicted accurately she's a 4 and told me to always sandwich my alpha between two betas because of her insecurity issues. It's hard, though and I don't see how I can always do that and what to do with those nights. She's just really stubborn, once she villainizes me.

Reborn

craigdf said:

But we keep falling into the same pattern.

1. She's offended by something I did or did not do/say, which catches me by surprise.

It might help if you gave us a fresh example. And when did this pattern first start?

3. She won't take it and says I don't sound genuine.

That's not OK. An apology is an apology. 

4. I start getting annoyed, but don't show it. Instead I try harder showing that I mean it.

So you've learned that THAT doesn't work. Don't do the trying harder.

5. She keeps resisting which leads to me withdrawing in annoyance.
6. Her insecurity flairs up because she's not getting my attention. She feels abandoned.

So trying harder doesnt work, and backing off doesnt work. She's really defined that whatever you do is wrong. 

This thing about "she feels abandoned" ... does SHE talk about it in those terms? Like, "this is all about my abandonment issues"? or does she just say she's right?

Then I realize she's just hurt and insecure because of past problems in her life

very probably

,,,,,and still needs some beta.

No. Or at least, not how you're doing it. Because, by what you say, giving more beta makes it worse! It may be that what she needs is you to be more stable and less reactive. Not trying to fix it (while its happening) neither by alpha nor beta, neither withdrawal, getting angry, nor apologising harder. You've tried all those, right?

She says she can only be reassured of my love and commitment by me giving into this demand.

... and you know that if you said the phrase that she demands, it wouldnt work. She would say your tone is not correct, or you're only saying it because she told you to. 

She does sound very childish, the way you tell it. 

I don't bring it up again, I forgive and move on content and happy.

How's that working for you?

Is it possible for you to discuss things in between times when you are not in an episode of the cycle? 

I recommend you to name the cycle. Like, as soon as this starts happening, say "oh, this is that CYCLE again".  And keep talking about the cycle, how it's that cycle happening again, how "this is how it always happens". 

The other thing is, you are putting a lot of emphasis on HER abandonment issues. Post some more here about your own reactivity and where it comes from.

craigdf

Reborn said:

craigdf said:

But we keep falling into the same pattern.

1. She's offended by something I did or did not do/say, which catches me by surprise.

It might help if you gave us a fresh example

Ok,
I come home, she's had a stressful day because of circumstances and I help out with what's left to be done. I'm extremely patient with everything. She gets emotional a couple of times, I stay calm and she apologizes quickly. At the end of it, I'm already late for bed, but I need to get something done before I go to bed. I'm writing someone a message and she wants to ask me something. I say "just a sec, just a sec. I just have to quickly finish this". She goes quiet. I spend another minute or so finishing my train of thought and then ask her what it was that she wanted from me. Then she says she doesn't want to talk about it anymore. I ask her what's up and she says she's offended that I was brushing her off. I tell her that I didn't intend do be rude in any way, just that I really wanted to get that message finished quickly. That's when she starts saying she's not convinced, because of my tone, etc. and I should have said something like "Just a sec, is it ok, if I finish this?" with a certain kind of tone. I said I can do that next time, but that it was just urgent for me at the moment to get that thought written down and I didn't have any hard feelings and lacked focus to take all the nuances of tone and word choice into consideration to finish the writing. Didn't help.

This thing about "she feels abandoned" ... does SHE talk about it in those terms? Like, "this is all about my abandonment issues"? or does she just say she's right?

Yes, when I withdraw she literally says I'm abandoning her. She keeps bringing that up during the resolution phase as well.

,,,,,and still needs some beta.

No. Or at least, not how you're doing it. Because, by what you say, giving more beta makes it worse! It may be that what she needs is you to be more stable and less reactive. Not trying to fix it (while its happening) neither by alpha nor beta, neither withdrawal, getting angry, nor apologising harder. You've tried all those, right?

Correct. Except, she basically waits for me to do something and if I do nothing she gets more upset as well. So if I'm passive, it's wrong. If I'm trying to fix it, it's wrong. Sometimes she tells me afterwards I should have been more persistant in my comforting attempts and just try it for some 15 minutes. I find that in the moment I forget that and I also don't really know what I'm meant to do for 15 minutes without repeating myself. Also, it's annoying because it interrupts what ever I'm doing at that moment.

I don't bring it up again, I forgive and move on content and happy.

How's that working for you?

Is it possible for you to discuss things in between times when you are not in an episode of the cycle? 

I recommend you to name the cycle. Like, as soon as this starts happening, say "oh, this is that CYCLE again".  And keep talking about the cycle, how it's that cycle happening again, how "this is how it always happens". 

The other thing is, you are putting a lot of emphasis on HER abandonment issues. Post some more here about your own reactivity and where it comes from.

I really don't have a problem forgiving. I do it gladly and without reservation. That's why it's so hard for me to understand why she can't do the same. I think she should.

Bringing it up during peace times seems like a good point. The only reservation I have is that I'm trying to be as positive as I can and not bring attention to negative events. But maybe I should find a way to do this.

With regards to my own reactivity...
Well, I've always considered myself to be quite patient and not easily angered. I've never gotten this annoyed or angry as with her. Some of it is certainly because of my nice guy covert contracts.

But I think there are several other things that upset me.

1. I know she knows she's not supposed to act like that and she still does it. I know because she apologizes in the end and tells me that if only I had persisted in comforting her in the beginning, she would have apologized.

2. When I set clear boundaries she keeps stepping over them although she knows she'll hate the consequences. I don't know how else to set boundaries, though. I want her to stop walking all over me, overwhelming me with irrational emotions and leaving the place seems like the only option I have.

3. I feel like she's not as commited to the marriage as I am during those periods. (She'd probably say that the opposite is true...) Just because of a stupid argument over nothing caused by her strong emotions, she ends up using very extreme language in the way she insults me, puts the blame on me, expects me to solve her feelings and talks about how she's not motivated to live up to her responsibilities. I cannot stop going to work just because I'm feeling down. She on the other hand will just neglect her own duties. And then she uses language about how everything's broken and how terribly unhappy she is and how the marriage is broken now, etc. Once she even took off her ring. When I made clear how offended I was and that I'm not going to talk to her under that condition, she said she didn't see it as such a serious issue because her dad didn't wear his ring because it was uncomfortable. She also often calls me by my full name instead of my nickname to indicate that our closeness is gone.

Angeline

Is she in coaching with you? If not, get yourselves into counseling ASAP simply to deal with this issue. Pre-screen the therapists by asking if they have experience helping couples learn to stop using gaslighting and DARVO (use those terms) to resolve fights, and learning healthy ways to argue differences out.

Read through, and watch the videos, discussed at this link:
http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/7631/the-art-of-the-apology

There are two parts to a sincere apology - recognizing you fucked up and acknowledging it without any "yes but" weaselly language, and then being done with it and not allowing your transgression to be used as a club to continue to beat you with it. For example, at step 3 in your first post, you're done, it's her problem if you have apologized and meant it. 

However, now we come to the 2nd issue, where you shouldn't apologize for some things because you did nothing wrong, but you're doing it anyway to appease her because you're afraid of her anger.

In the note-writing situation, do you even see that you did nothing wrong there? You should have calmly and quietly turned to her once you were done and told her to stop acting like the injured party because you didn't want to be interrupted, and say what she wanted to say.

If she doesn't do so (and she won't at first, she'll get collosally angrier) you shrug and go about your day, without doing your own passive aggressive pouting/angry/silent act. I always recommend whistling and smiling, and being especially cheerful with the kids. Leave the immediate area if necessary. Turn and face her if she follows, look sternly at her and point, but QUIETLY tell her the discussion is over, you won't rehash the same thing over and over. If she goes silent treatment on you, it is very effective to put on headphones and bust ass on a workout or some chores, singing along off key. Nothing so infuriating to someone who pulls the silent fuming act than someone who isn't scared of it.

It will take lots of this, of you being relentlessly, unfailingly, cheerful, firm, and adult, for it to sink in that you're not afraid of her and those tactics won't work. Every time you answer her childishness with your own, you reset to zero. Every time she draws you into yelling or your own passive aggressive response, you reset to zero.

A couple of phrases to memorize for when you feel cornered:

"I will not be apologizing anymore just to make you feel better."
"I will not allow past mistakes to be used over and over to get an apology. That incident is over and done with."
"We are talking in circles. That discussion is over."
"We are not teaching our child this dysfunctional mode of arguing."
"We are both adults. We will both act like it."
"There will be no haranging and disrupting of sleep because you didn't hear the 'right' tone."

Since you're a Gold member, perhaps you've done a more extensive history with Athol, but if not, a more complete history would be helpful. When you can, please answer the questions in the triage link below this (switch to desktop view to see them if you're on mobile version).

craigdf

Thanks for the good responses!

She's definitely not going to go to counseling. She's made that clear. 
When I apologize I'm careful not to insert a  "but" and own my faults.
The problem I have with the staying calm and going about my day is that I don't get that peace as long as I'm home. She'll go cry or read or whatever in the bedroom, leaving me with the kid or she'll go shopping or she'll keep trying to talk to me.
I believe she honestly does feel abandoned and I don't want that. I guess I just have to learn to shrug it off as her own problem that I can't solve for her?

I've tried to answer the questions in the beginning, whenever I had an answer. Something in particular you'd like to have more information on?

Beatrice

Why are her feelings and needs more important than yours?

You seem to have endless discussions about how she feels.  Does she know anything about how you feel?  She won't know if you don't tell her.

You need to stop giving up your sleep because she can't manage her emotions.

craigdf

Beatrice said:

Why are her feelings and needs more important than yours?

You seem to have endless discussions about how she feels.  Does she know anything about how you feel?  She won't know if you don't tell her.

You need to stop giving up your sleep because she can't manage her emotions.

Her emotions are so overwhelming, that she simply doesn't/can't/won't care about my feelings in the moment. Afterwards she's usually remorseful, but when it's happening, she can't seem to get a grip on herself.
I'd like to not give up my sleep, but how do you sleep when someone keeps talking to you?

Beatrice

I would let her know in advance that I intended to get my sleep even if I had to go to a hotel for the night to get it. I would let her know that she only had a certain window of time to do her thing, then we would have to take a break until I got some sleep. 

Then I would go to the hotel and sleep if I needed to. I would reassure her that it was all about me and my sleep and I would be back to re-engage and I wouldn't lose my temper or get all pissy. Check Angeline's suggestions about for maintaining your frame. 

I would make sure she understood that I wanted to stay with her in the house, but if I needed to go, I would. You would have to have these conversations when she is not upset. Don't spring it on her. 

It sounds like you need to have some conversations with her anyway. Not for her to apologize, but to make sure she understands how detrimental her outbursts are to the marriage. 

DaddyOh

When it comes to falling asleep use @Angeline methods. Do not apologize for the sake of apologizing. And do not talk in circles. 
In the end, what is she trying to achieve? 


In regards to the phone message incident I had a similar experience last week. However, I was updating my FB page. I own my mistake and apologized to my GF and we moved on. But if it was work related, Nope, my GF can wait while I finish the message. I would tell her I'll talk to her in a minute. Seems you handled it well.

Whats concerning is she is treating you like child. I.e; You have to constantly apologize, and worst yet, you have to apologize in a "certain way".

Tennee

@DaddyOh said:

In the end, what is she trying to achieve?

Whats concerning is she is treating you like child. I.e; You have to constantly apologize, and worst yet, you have to apologize in a "certain way".

This, and This.   If any of the following contravenes Athol's advice, you obviously ignore me. 

IMO, she's throwing out a standard shit-test.  She's trying to ensure you're under control - the Lizard Brain is testing your Frame.  That's what she's achieving - successfully.    Above, you continue to dance to the Shit Test Tune - the 'manner' and 'sincerity' is just more music from the organ-grinder to make you dance.

Stop dancing to the organ-grinder.  Re-read @Angeline 's post above.  Execute.  And be prepared to weather the storm. 

Angeline

craigdf said:

Thanks for the good responses!

She's definitely not going to go to counseling. She's made that clear. 

Perhaps your MAP then is to fix your shit to the stage you feel comfortable with yourself whether you stay married or not. Then you'll have the status in the relationship to insist on this. Do you have any reason to suspect abuse in her past?

Regarding peace - if she's off pouting or crying by herself, how is that your problem? I get that no one wants to see someone they love suffering, but she isn't - she's pouting, or having an outright tantrum. This of course assumes you are having separate quality time with her that's good - listening, having fun, PLAYING.

An important stage for babies is that they learn to self-soothe. That they have enough faith in their surroundings to relax and murmur themselves to sleep, or play by themselves. Your wife is not a toddler, she shouldn't need to be coddled back to a good mood after a disagreement, and you shouldn't be following her around like a puppy to do it. Put your headphones on and go do your own thing. Instant peace.

Kickboxer

I strongly disagree with advice to leave the house and sleep at a hotel. You have kids and this could be construed as abandonment. 

dalef

Was getting her mother mad the only way your wife could get attention as a child? If so, she could be repeating that as an adult.

Mongrel

You do not maintain frame in your engagements with her. She gets to you and sucks you into her frame and then its all downhill.

Study frame. A lot.

Also do everything @Angeline suggested. She's spot-on.

craigdf

Thanks guys. So this is what's happened recently. When I come home she acts mostly normal and nice. The other night we ended up having sex. She kind of didn't want to initially, but then got into it. We were interrupted and she had to leave the room. Since we decided that I'll be more dominant, I decided that we'll resume in a different position. When she came back, she was very reluctant, saying she didn't feel like that and was too tired. I tried to stay dominant and insist. But the look on her face showed me, she really didn't want to. That turned me totally off. I tried to go back to our previous position but still couldn't get back in. She said that maybe we're just too tired. After I figured out that nothing's going to happen I decided to stop trying and go to bed. That's never happened before. I was quite annoyed and just said we'll go to bed now. Somehow that hurt her feelings again but I was too tired to care and we went to sleep. In bed she tried to keep me engaged in her emotional upheaval, said she's never been this hurt before. Today she was all nice again when I came home, but when I indicated interest in a new session for this evening she said she won't be interested in it for a while after what happened.

Another sub plot:
Since I've come home we've spent all this time together while cleaning, playing, making food. She talks a lot. Basically all the time.
Before putting the kid to bed and after dinner I sat down to read a book. She just kept talking though, as she always does and I decided to disengage for once. Maybe I did it too abruptly with to little communication, but when she asked while I don't have her full attention any longer I said she's had it for all these hours and I'd just like to read a book for a few minutes. She got angry and basically declared that I can have more me-time than I want from now on.

Any thoughts?
Also, what's the best way to learn frame?

RebuildingHusband

So you're getting the silent treatment? AWESOME! My wife won't do that to me anymore. Get shit done, with a smile on your face, maybe even while whistling a tune. Who gives a shit about her being mad over something so stupid? Live in your frame, not hers. Your emotions need to be calm, level. Not chaotic and frenzied like hers. 

On the sex front, sometimes it's just not happening and it's perfectly acceptable to abort mission. "Babe, this just isn't working for me tonight. I look forward to trying again!" Kiss on forehead, go to sleep. 

Beatrice

You did give us a pretty good background in the OP, but answering the triage questions would help everyone get a better feel for what is going on in your marriage. We might not have to stop to ask specific questions about leadership, for example. We also don't have a feel for CMN's in your marriage and you will get better advice from everyone if you complete the triage (which can be found in Angeline's signature line).

I think your troubles sound like a Type 4 and Type 5 running into their trouble spot.

https://www.enneagraminstitute.com/enneagram-type-4-type-5/

You might want to think about setting some boundaries for yourself, but also being more specific in attending to her needs.

Another sub plot:Since I've come home we've spent all this time together while cleaning, playing, making food. She talks a lot. Basically all the time.Before putting the kid to bed and after dinner I sat down to read a book. She just kept talking though, as she always does and I decided to disengage for once. Maybe I did it too abruptly with to little communication, but when she asked while I don't have her full attention any longer I said she's had it for all these hours and I'd just like to read a book for a few minutes. She got angry and basically declared that I can have more me-time than I want from now on.Any thoughts?
Also, what's the best way to learn frame?

So maybe you could make sure that she gets your full attention - not just part of your attention while doing other things.  And you also make sure that you get some down time for yourself. 

You will need your leadership skills and a solid frame to do it.

craigdf

Basically I found NMMNG because she told me about the red pill subreddit. After I read the book I was hooked and told her and she started taking the red pill seriously as well. She started reading the surrendered wife but somehow never finished. We did come to the agreement that I'll lead and she'll let me.
It's worked OK, but many times she'd go back to her old ways of disrespecting me, although recently she's been apologetic very quickly afterwards. Until that last incident that somehow ended the peace.

She had a somewhat troubled childhood, never felt completely safe

The basic impression I have is that she seeks a lot of comfort, but has zero respect. Not just the respect by a wife to her husband, but just basic decency of giving someone the benefit of a doubt, allowing me to clarify misunderstandings and speaking without accusing and insulting. She now says we'll never be close with each other again.

When she asks if I'd like to have sex, I say yes and she then says "too bad, not going to happen anytime soon after the way you've treated me". I just ignore it. I say yes in the first place because I made it a principle to always say yes, no matter what. I think it's a good principle generally, but maybe not for my current situation.

David Deida says 90% of a woman's Emotional problems stem from feeling unloved. I can see that, but don't know what to do about it. She can be so uncompromising and won't move on without my apologies. I tell her that I love he and she says that I don't. At that point I'm withdrawing from the conversation because it's getting too stupid. I can feel the urge to become cynical towards women in general. Can't we just ask get along? Can we just take each other's words at face value and realize that we all have faults and what matters is continuously working on them?

How do I stay calm when she says things like that I'll probably visit a prostitute soon and be completely unfaithful? It's just so infuriating.

The enneagram description of trouble between 4 and 5 is spot on.

RebuildingHusband

If my wife said anything like that to me I'd tell her to find somewhere else to sleep. No way in hell I'd put up with bullshit games like that. 

Beatrice

I also have a Type 5 personality and I have to admit, the description of the interactions you have with your wife makes my eye twitch.  Have you done any of this?

Angeline said:

Is she in coaching with you? If not, get yourselves into counseling ASAP simply to deal with this issue. Pre-screen the therapists by asking if they have experience helping couples learn to stop using gaslighting and DARVO (use those terms) to resolve fights, and learning healthy ways to argue differences out.

Read through, and watch the videos, discussed at this link:
http://marriedmansexlife.vanillacommunities.com/discussion/7631/the-art-of-the-apology

There are two parts to a sincere apology - recognizing you fucked up and acknowledging it without any "yes but" weaselly language, and then being done with it and not allowing your transgression to be used as a club to continue to beat you with it. For example, at step 3 in your first post, you're done, it's her problem if you have apologized and meant it. 

However, now we come to the 2nd issue, where you don't apologize for some things because you did nothing wrong, but you're doing it anyway to appease her because you're afraid of her anger.

In the note-writing situation, do you even see that you did nothing wrong there? You should have calmly and quietly turned to her once you were done and told her to stop acting like the injured party because you didn't want to be interrupted, and say what she wanted to say.

If she doesn't do so (and she won't at first, she'll get collosally angrier) you shrug and go about your day, without doing your own passive aggressive pouting/angry/silent act. I always recommend whistling and smiling, and being especially cheerful with the kids. Leave the immediate area if necessary. Turn and face her if she follows, look sternly at her and point, but QUIETLY tell her the discussion is over, you won't rehash the same thing over and over. If she goes silent treatment on you, it is very effective to put on headphones and bust ass on a workout or some chores, singing along off key. Nothing so infuriating to someone who pulls the silent fuming act than someone who isn't scared of it.

It will take lots of this, of you being relentlessly, unfailingly, cheerful, firm, and adult, for it to sink in that you're not afraid of her and those tactics won't work. Every time you answer her childishness with your own, you reset to zero. Every time she draws you into yelling or your own passive aggressive response, you reset to zero.

A couple of phrases to memorize for when you feel cornered:

"I will not be apologizing anymore just to make you feel better."
"I will not allow past mistakes to be used over and over to get an apology. That incident is over and done with."
"We are talking in circles. That discussion is over."
"We are not teaching our child this dysfunctional mode of arguing."
"We are both adults. We will both act like it."
"There will be no haranging and disrupting of sleep because you didn't hear the 'right' tone."

Since you're a Gold member, perhaps you've done a more extensive history with Athol, but if not, a more complete history would be helpful. When you can, please answer the questions in the triage link below this (switch to desktop view to see them if you're on mobile version).

Because if you haven't, you should try it. Are you currently in coaching with Athol?  If not, and you can't do the things described in the quote above, you might want to schedule a 1-hour call to get some advice.

craigdf

I'm at the end of my strength. I'll have a call with Athol. Unfortunately he doesn't seem to work on weekends.

Last night was the horror. We go to bed and she starts talking again. She won't quit. I tell her that I need the sleep, etc. I tell her I'll go to the hotel. She keeps talking. I leave. Once I'm there the reception desk is empty and a sign says that they'll be back shortly. Nothing happens for 10 minutes. I figure, by now she'll sleep so I might as well save the money and go back there and sleep. That's what I did. Only at night the kid wakes up and therefore the mom. She comes to my room and I go back to the bed room. I fall asleep again only to be woken up by her putting her finger in my ear. I wake up almost yelling "Are you nuts????". Some silly back and forth, says she didn't know I was sleeping, blablabla.

I leave for the other room again. She turns the light on in another room that inevitably brightens the room I'm sleeping in. I lost it. I don't care about frame or shrugging it of or amused mastery or any of that stuff that maybe works for normal people. She tells me I'm living in my own world, making things up. Everything she says about me is exactly what she's like. It's as if I'm in some creepy movie. I get really angry, telling her I'm leaving for work (at 2:30am, I can enter the office at any time) and won't come back home afterwards and instead sleep in the hotel for real. She calls me afterwards asking for my help with the kid because she's stressed out. I told her she's got quite some nerve asking me and she hangs up.
I'm so done.