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A redditor's view on the male romantic fantasy. Agree, disagree? Applications in a Captain/FO?
mook_z
Gold Men Posts: 1,267
Via Reddit: https://www.reddit.com/r/AskMen/comments/3z8o75/why_dont_men_get_as_much_of_a_thrill_over/cykm7bm?context=3 ;
>So when women or their SO makes romantic gestures to men, do they like it?
You're a little bit off the mark—you're actually describing an inversion of the gendered roles here (i.e. the woman is an active contributor while the man is a passive recipient or responder). While a man will appreciate such a gesture, it's not quite what composes the male romantic fantasy (more on this later).
>Do men that were heavily pursued by women feel this way?
Men who aren't used to being pursued are usually confused or thrown off by the reversal of gendered roles. The result is the prevailing idea that men do not respond well to being approached first by women or even the autobiographical accounts from men describing instances where they couldn't respond well even if they were attracted to the woman approaching them. This is the men being shocked out of the traditional "script" of romance.
Secondly, when you talk about women pursuing men, that usually happens in a markedly different fashion than the way in which men pursue women (hint: it's more passive). A woman "aggressively" pursuing a man looks more like said woman going to extensive lengths to make it clear that she is *available* for pursuit rather than actively pursuing; the man is still usually leading things forward in some manner by handling the logistics of this romance. This is where you get those autobiographical stories from men about missing signals; "aggressive" pursuit from women is (usually) a set of passive signals that are clear to men who are experienced, but unclear to men not used to being "pursued."
>I wonder if this is true in same sex male couples too.
I do too. I talk with a homosexual friend about stuff like this a lot, maybe I'll bring it up next time I see him.
**The Male Romantic Fantasy**
I'd say that men usually feel most loved when this normal state of affairs is negated; when they are made to believe that a woman's love is *not* conditional in the cause-and-effect manner described in the parent post. Love is work for men, but it can be rewarding work when things are going smoothly and the woman is happy as a result. But the male romantic fantasy is to be shown that the woman feels the same way and stands by him when he's down on his luck, when the money's not there, or when he's not feeling confident. He wants to know that the love he believes he's earned will stay even when the actions that feed it wane (however temporarily). A good woman can often lift a man up in his times of need and desperation and weather the storm even when things aren't going well. The male romantic fantasy is an enduring and unconditional love that seems to defy this relationship of labor and reward. **A man wants to be loved for who he is, not for what he does in order to be loved.**
An interesting way to examine this is to look at what women often call romantic entitlement. An entitled guy is a dude who maintains an unrealistic notion of men's typically active role in love. Before acknowledging reality, this boy uncompromisingly believes that he shouldn't have to do anything or change anything about himself to earn a woman's love; he wants to be loved for who he is, not what he does.
All men secretly want this, but there comes a day when they eventually compromise out of necessity. After that day, they may spend years honing themselves, working, shaping themselves into the men they believe women want to be chosen by. A massive part of what causes boys to "grow up" is the realization that being loved requires hard work. This impetus begins a journey where a boy grows into a man by gaining strength, knowledge, resources, and wisdom. The harsh realities of the world might harden and change him into a person his boyhood self wouldn't recognize. He might adopt viewpoints he doesn't agree with, transgress his personal boundaries, or commit acts he previously thought himself incapable of. But ultimately, the goal is to feel as if his work is done.
**When he can finally let go of the crank he continually turns day after day in order to earn love and, even if only for a moment, it turns by itself to nourish him in return, that is when he will know he is loved.**
Do you agree or disagree with him? In part or in whole? What's your romantic fantasy, men?
"you ... are right." - DaddyOh
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Comments
It's the old "I just want him to tell me I'm beautiful when I'm wearing sweatpants, and no makeup" repackaged in male form.
Blue pill BS
Basically he wants to stop being a nice guy.
He didn't care that his serial cheating gave me nothing to work with, and he made no effort to understand my (frequent) female initiations.
Yes, the essay portrays male entitlement ... but there are real men who live this out.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
Men's fantasies vary by a lot. My husband considers women who claim to love unconditionally dangerously mistaken.
Taking the RP means you see reality. The downside of that is that the Disney fantasy of male/female relationships ("and they lived happily ever after") is exposed as a lie. Attraction and love simply don't work that way. And it pisses a lot of us off when we realize that.
I wanted the Disney ideal and I'm still slightly bitter that I won't ever have it. That is a harsh reality to accept after society and popular culture selling it to you for most of your life. So much time and effort wasted on the wrong things. Love is conditional and there's nothing a man can do about it but acknowledge, accept and embrace the fact. To do otherwise is to either remain BP or become angry...or become MGTOW.
"Treating her like a princess didn't make me a prince, it made me a servant."
Link to triage questions: http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
The "harsh reality" is that you have to step up and keep stepping up. Adults step up, children are the only ones that can get away with not stepping up and no one likes a 40 year-old child.
Note: I was about to say "mmmmmm, Pocahontas" but then remembered the age thing and nope, just nope.
This guy seems spot on.
He's positing that a man's fantasy is is to know that he's loved unconditionally. That if he's doing OK and then out of the blue life hands him an ass-kicking, that his loved ones will be there for him.
He then goes on to say that while men may start out believing that "You should love me for meeeeeeeeee!" they quickly realize that unless they bring value to a relationship they're going to be passed over. So they adapt.
Value. Value. Value. It's all about value and that's one of the reasons why "You should love me for meeeeeeeee!" resonates. Why, because everyone believes they have an intrinsic value. Even if you're not showing others that value, you still want it to be recognized.
Also, it doesn't read like it's packaged as advice, merely analysis.
The last 2 paragraphs do a great turn-about and explain this rather well, especially this line:
The Disney Princesses who were around when I was growing up (Snow White, Cinderella, Sleeping Beauty) had every reason to live happily ever after; they were marrying the Crown Prince.
I get that part of being a man is always having to step up, and I've long understood that romantic love is the most conditional love of all. Such is life, especially as a man. Only children get something close to unconditional love, and generally only until they grow up.
Here's what concerns me though; what if a man is no longer able to step up? What if he gets really sick, like gets cancer or MLS or some other disease that knocks him flat on his back and keeps him there for weeks, months or even years, during which time he is utterly dependent on his wife or whoever may be around to look after him? Or he gets into a serious accident that does the same and takes months or years or recovery time, or even worse, he never fully recovers and is crippled for the rest of his life? How can a man in that state "step up"?
I've heard stories, and seen examples, of wives leaving their husbands during those times, abandoning them at their time of greatest need. I know good mate choice can help alleviate this concern, but there's really no way to be sure until this situation actually arises. As I get older, this become a greater concern to me; if it turns out I've chosen poorly, I could spend the rest of my life battling a serious physical condition...alone.