My story - a triage too late

sf64

@Under_Construction ;

I know that all of this is very confusing and very challenging.   Your world is being turned upside down.   Sad that you are in this situation.

But it is time for some tough love and an action plan.

1.  You must hope for the best, but prepare for the worst.   Right now, you wife is almost certainly not thinking clearly.  She is lost in the dopamine fog of at least an emotional affair.  You cannot assume that she is going to act rationally.  Sadly, you have to assume she is going to act irrationally.

2.  Unfortunately, false charges of domestic violence and abuse are all too common in divorce and custody battles.  Why?  Because it is such a devastating weapon.  At leas tin the United States

• There is an almost universal presumption that the claim is true unless the man can prove that he didn't do anything.  How do you prove you didn't raise your hand like you were going to hit her?  How do you prove you didn't threaten to hurt her?  
• And if the judge believes there was domestic violence by the man, the out come is pretty harsh for the guy
  - Man is immediately barred from being in the house
  - Woman gets to stay in the House
  - Woman gets primary custody of the kids
  - Man can only see the kids on a limited basis, and only with supervision
  - Man is ordered to take Anger Management classes
  - Man has a restraining order placed against him
  - Man has to continue to pay for the house 
  - Man has to pay child support, even though he can't see the kids
• It is sort of the nuclear weapon in divorce and custody battles.

3.  All this means that you have to be prepared to PROVE things didn't happen in the manner in which she claims it happened.  Your word against hers, you lose. 

I am not familiar with the last about recording in Australia.  You need to check with your lawyer.  But if at all possible, you need to have a recording of any interactions with her.  Having a voice recording is good, but it can't prove you didn't raise your hand against her or make a fist.  Video is better.

I hope and pray that you never have to use these recordings, but I would rather have hours of video I never used than not have it when I need it.

Under_Construction

@Betterman I am in Australia - so my responses are going to be a little delayed sorry. I am unsure about police responses but my they will be biased towards the woman hence the rationale for a preemptive report.

i should have said that when my wife originally told me to leave and I refused, said I should sleep somewhere else. I refused. Our counsellor suggested separate beds but it was just too impractical   I will repairs about the FB guy soon

Under_Construction

HildaCorners said:

The more you shake up the relationship, the more control the abuser tries to use. And often, the more physical they get. Under, if your wife shows signs of abusive behavior, she may get worse as you MAP.

This is my dilemma - not getting her volatile vs continuing to be the carpet. To a degree the lawyer's advice contraindicates mapping, however I just have to adapt it - i.e: do more things around the home so I'm seen to be at the family house during the evenings (e.g: not going out to start a new hobby like boxing). The main thing is to be able to hold my frame and not fall into hers and react to whatever she might throw at me (e.g.: the lunchbox incident the other day)

Under_Construction

@CartB4Horse and @ Betterman


If an ideal world when I became aware of the FB guy I should have just monitored. But I became aware of her arranging to meet and I got anxious. I tried to stop her going out that evening but I couldn't. I wish I hadn't read that read that part of the Primer about cheating and ovulation because I knew my wife was ovulating. When I was pretty sure "something" may have happened that night I confronted her and of course she denied and like you said called my bluff and wanted me to leave. Since then she has locked down everything. I have kept the FB conversation though for safe keeping. 

Our son was actually using her phone while she was in the shower so I looked up the FB messages. I reckon she had deleted previous ones but the last chat with him was last Sunday - so at that stage 2 days without contact. It was pretty benign banter - except for the fact that she was alluding to her waiting for me to "make a decision" - which reinforces my thoughts that she is totally over the marriage and is waiting for me to crack and end it so she doesn't have to.

I will check phone records but I don't think she has any other contact with him apart from FB. My lawyer has advised me not to bring it up again. And me demanding she not contact him again can be deemed as "controlling behaviour". My wife even said that to me at the time I confronted her. Wish I key logged her phone while I had the chance. I should have monitored the whole thing without confronting until I had concrete evidence but I couldn't emotionally stand it. I still have there FB conversation burned into my memory (it was 2 days after they met - where it alluded to something physical happening, what it was I can't be sure)

CartB4Horse

Okay, so now I have an understanding of where you are at.

Do you know anything about this guy?  Is he married?  Do you have access to your wife's phone bill, where you can see what numbers she calls/texts?

I didn't get any information regarding my wife cheating until AFTER I confronted her and she had tried to cover things up.  Makes it harder, but definately not impossible.

Also, do you want to repair the marriage or are you done?  If she went out and banged the OM (other man) is that a deal breaker?

Under_Construction

@sf64 thanks man. Yes I'm am definitely preparing for the worst. I am going to file that police report on Monday to protect me from her making any crazy future allegations. I have the FB conversation saved and a hard copy made. I am collecting precious documents to store at a safe location. I am documenting a daily diary as advised by my lawyer. I did ask her about recordings and unfortunately they are illegal here, as is video. I will double check with her though. The lawyer has also asked me to send her texts between me and my wife for safe keeping. She has strongly advised "nice relationship friendly" texts to my wife and definitely nothing that would display controlling behaviour (e.g." I demand you stop talking to FB guy). My lawyer thinks that she will eventually crack and do something to end the marriage - so for now I stand my ground, get strong and establish the best routine and relationship I can with my son. So I guess that's my action plan

• be cool and don't fall to her level and be sucked into arguments
• document everything
• continue to get fit at the gym to remain as healthy as possible
• spend as much quality time as possible with my son (and document)
• prepare for the worst - file that police report, make safe all my precious items, etc
• wait

Oh - and until my wife realises I can still track her mobile phone, I know where she's going. Of late she hasn't done much at all. I'm 100% certain she hasn't met with FB guy again

sf64

What state do you live in?  NSW?  Queensland?

Under_Construction

@sf64 South Australia

Under_Construction

@CartB4Horse this is a guy she used to hang out with when she was around 18 with a group of other friends I never met (i.e. Way before my time). I'm assuming they all drifted apart. I never met him. According to their FB conversation they were never together - just hung out together and probably smoked dope. 

My my wife only recently rejoined FB a few months ago. Ironically only a week after we had the no sex argument he friended her (or vice versa). I think the sequence of events is in my triage. What I do know is that he is recently divorced and going through a messy custody battle of his 3 kids. This is what was really annoying me - her venting to an old friend going through a custody battle, not the ideal kind of counsel for someone questioning their own marriage. Anyway, my wife didn't appear to see anything wrong with it. 

When I became aware that something may have happened that night they met and although she denied it - I wasn't sure I could stay with her. However since then the alternative is terrible. I know we shouldn't stay together in a bad marriage however if there is some way we can turn things around I am willing to forgive her - at least for lying to me about being with this guy. I will however always wonder what happened that night. So it was a deal breaker initially but now I am willing to try

oh and this FB guy apparently lives with his mother at the moment....

sf64

Under_Construction said:

I did ask her about recordings and unfortunately they are illegal here, as is video. 

So, I had time on my hands half listening to a conference call and e-mailed a friend of mine who practices law both in CA and Australia.  I asked him about the recording.

Big caveat - I am not an attorney and I am not offering legal advice - but I think you should double check with the lawyer.  According to my friend, there is a provision in Australian law that allows you to record a conversation without the other person's knowledge if  the recording is "reasonably necessary for the protection of the lawful interests of the that principle party."  He also said there was a case in NSW that litigated the use of recordings in Family Law related to custody and abuse.  The case is Latham & Latham (2008).

http://www.familylawexpress.com.au/family-law-decisions/evidence/latham-latham-2008-famca-877/

In this case, the judge allowed the recordings to be entered into evidence.

Again.... check with your attorney, but from the cheap seats, if the recordings prove domestic violence charge is false, I have a hard time seeing how that wouldn't be "protecting your lawful interested."

Under_Construction

@sf64 you know that's what I would have thought too. I will def check with my lawyer. Are you in Australia too?

sf64

No, I'm in San Francisco at the moment but have business interests in Australia (Queensland).  Will be in Brisbane next month!

CartB4Horse

I was going down the road of having to end any type of affair with the OM BUT it seems like you are heading down the road towards divorce so it doesn't matter.

MAP like your hair is on fire.  Do it for you, you want to be the best possible man no matter how this turns out.

Under_Construction

CartB4Horse said:

MAP like your hair is on fire.  Do it for you, you want to be the best possible man no matter how this turns out.

Absolutely!!

Betterman

Also there is a difference between being legal in the sense of being admissible in a custody case, vs legal in the sense of showing it to the police in the event of a DV allegation.  The video was for home security as you are afraid of burglary.

HildaCorners

Under_Construction said:

HildaCorners said:

The more you shake up the relationship, the more control the abuser tries to use. And often, the more physical they get. Under, if your wife shows signs of abusive behavior, she may get worse as you MAP.

This is my dilemma - not getting her volatile vs continuing to be the carpet. To a degree the lawyer's advice contraindicates mapping, however I just have to adapt it - i.e: do more things around the home so I'm seen to be at the family house during the evenings (e.g: not going out to start a new hobby like boxing). The main thing is to be able to hold my frame and not fall into hers and react to whatever she might throw at me (e.g.: the lunchbox incident the other day)

If your view of MAP is to become more Alpha, there is a contradiction between protecting yourself from DV and the MAP.

But the MAP is about a lot more than Alpha ... it's about giving you the strength and will to make your life better. The MAP gives you the strength to stand up to an abuser and get through the weeks of hell a confrontation may produce.

In some ways, being a male victim of a female abuser is practicing the art of Beta. In order to get your case taken seriously, the man needs to fit the stereotype of an abused man, and there's no Alpha in that stereotype! You go to the police as the low man in the pecking order, stating you love your wife and are reporting to protect both of you and see if you can get help for her "before things get too bad." Yeah, it kind of sucks to take that position, but it really works.

[I went through all of this 5 years ago, but with me as the abuse victim. I'm not a trained counselor, but I've been through this war.]

Think of what your goals are here. Do you want your wife back, with all her faults (though she might work on them)? Would you rather end the marriage peacefully with shared custody? How much change is realistic?

Under_Construction

@HildaCorners yes this is what I want. I want to MAP to give me the strength to stand up for myself and get me through this whatever the outcome. My goal however is still unclear. Despite all my wife's faults I think I still have the capacity to make something of this and if I make changes then I'm sure she can too. However remote this possibility is then if all fails we can work things out peacefully. Regardless we would still have to interact for years to come anyway. I just don't know how much change is realistic. Maybe I'm kidding myself but I have nothing to lose by getting stronger. I am going to make that police report during the week, although I am dreading it. I believe that over the next few weeks my goals will become clearer - that is if my wife truly wants to make something of this or loses patience when she realizes I'm not going to crack and ends things herself. 

Under_Construction

@sf64 I read that case you linked - wow. I will ask my lawyer again regarding recordings 

@Betterman I understand what you're saying 

WarnPeace

@Under_Construction - fellow aussie here, sorry to hear you are going through this, but this place can help.

If you want to try and save your family you really have to be prepared to man up and put yourself and your marriage on the line.  Be resolute. Don’t be her doormat.  You can’t save the marriage so long as there is an active affair going on.  She has to agree to try and save her marriage and this means agreeing that there will be no contact with the other man and full transparency of comm devices going forward.  Or you divorce.  Period.  That’s not “controlling.”  It’s providing boundaries and being prepared to enforce them.

Right now your wife is getting the best of both worlds and suffering no consequences for her actions.  You’re a good provider and dad and put up with her moods and wayward behaviours.  For now, the other man only has to provide some fun banter and dopamine to get the sex he wants.  Sounds like he won't want her moving in with him and might struggle to support her while also paying child support from his first marriage.  Sounds like he may have already backed off at the prospect.  You want her to get out of fantasyland and start to face up to the reality of what life will be like as a single mum.

Great to hear you're working out.  It’s the perfect way to get started on your MAP, boost your self esteem and burn off some stress.  

Under_Construction

@WarnPeace thanks for taking the time to respond. Yes this is the hardest part. I have been advised not to mention the FB guy again as this can be construed as "controlling behavior". I understand that the link needs to be completely severed but for now I am monitoring as best I can. I'm pretty sure this guy has backed off massively (it was my wife that appeared to peruse his counsel the most) and I just have to make sure there are no face to faces. If my wife pulls a "I'm going for a walk on the beach" stunt again I'll be asking for complete transparency and get surveillance if I have to. I'm assuming she is still having the occasional chat on FB but there's not a lot I can do about that. 

I still can't be sure what they got up to and it bugs me a lot although I'm trying to push it aside. Whatever it was I don't think it will be happening again. The reason she hasn't called it quits with our marriage  I think is because she realises what the reality will be like if we separate. Status quo continues....