About this site. . .
You have found an archive of the MMSL Forum, which shut down on December 27, 2016. You can continue these discussions on this forum
Categories
- 10.9K All Categories
- 23 The New Forum 101
- 8 Moments of Zen
- 915 Introduce Yourself
- 671 911 Relationship ER
- 2.7K Married Life
- 2.1K Running the MAP
- 743 1. Fitness, Food and Health
- 96 2. Money and Material Stuff
- 304 3. Displaying High Value - Men
- 728 3. Displaying High Value - Women
- 200 4. Building Relationship Comfort
- 52 5. Personality and Preferences
- 406 6. High-Energy Sex
- 513 Singles
- 45 Faith and Spirituality
- 1.3K Off Topic
Sexual Aversion/Open Marriage
Beans
Member Posts: 427
in Married Life
Funny how life works. I've been lurking here for about a week and I was debating about making a post on the little successes in my marriage and ask how to improve even further. Then I was thrown for a loop today (more on that in a bit).
Some background on us:
We've been married 3 years...dated in our younger years, broke up...married the wrong people and both ended up divorced. We eventually reconnected, dated and married. We have two children together and also children from previous marriages.
A little background on my wife: She's diagnosed with depression and has had occasional suicidal thoughts (managed by medication) but she's gradually improved over the course of our relationship (better environment probably helps), but still suffers from the effects. She was a victim of S.A. in her 20s and also suffered similar abuse with the ex-hubby. Also has self image issues, though I still find her very attractive and she knows it.
We get a long very well...but sex is the only thing we have argued about and this is from nearly the beginning of the relationship (I know, I know). Also lack of communication had been a problem that comes up but not as often. The issues reached their peak during an expensive vacation overseas when we fought over sex...she was 5 weeks pregnant at the time which was her reasoning. Anyway, things really tanked after that. She was working at the time as well, which further created distance as she was tired at the end of the day. I was constantly being rejected and with anger. We would have sex once every two weeks, maybe once a week...where I wanted 2-3 times a week.
Since then, we have tried a lot of different things and every once in awhile she'd suggest I see other women to meet my needs and I've never entertained those comments.
After awhile (before coming to this site) I figured out that I needed to focus on myself. I work from home and I didn't do much and was always at the house and while she was a temporary SAHM with our baby, she probably felt smothered. So I said to myself that before she goes back to work...I'm going to improve myself so that her attraction will go up and she'll want to be around me more often.
So I put on some good weight (I was very skinny before), joined an adult men's sport league...occasionally headed out to spend weekends with buddies/men in my family, etc. Basically I started doing my own thing and during this time when I was rejected for sex, I didn't make a big deal about it. After some time, I noticed improvements...we communicated more, she wanted to spend time with me, she used to be distracted by facebook...she closed her account to limit that distraction (without any pressure from me, though she knew it was an issue), she shows jealousy more and lastly, sex increased to about 2-3 times a week. The only issue being that I was still always the initiator and I could tell she was only doing it for me...40-50% of the time she'd orgasm, the other times she wouldn't even try or even want to orgasm.
Fast forward to today. I get a text out of the blue that she wants to discuss our sex life (she never initiates conversation on sex). During the talk she said that she feels that she has a Sexual Aversion Disorder (which she's hinted to in the past). I don't want to accept that and after reading through this site, it confirms my feelings that it's something else (eg. attraction). I ask if she's always felt like that...she said every relationship she's been in has ended because of it and she's been cheated on by nearly every guy she's dated (and her ex-hubby). I've known this and can confirm it because we have common friends going back almost 20 years...but I just figured she dated a lot of a--holes.
She said she doesn't want to lose me and would rather me see someone else then me leave the relationship. My last words to her on this were that I'd like her to get a medical opinion before discussing any changes in our marriage. She agreed that she'd consult a doctor but I don't know if she'll follow through.
I'm at a loss here....I feel like some progress was made and now we are taking 30 steps back.
Some background on us:
We've been married 3 years...dated in our younger years, broke up...married the wrong people and both ended up divorced. We eventually reconnected, dated and married. We have two children together and also children from previous marriages.
A little background on my wife: She's diagnosed with depression and has had occasional suicidal thoughts (managed by medication) but she's gradually improved over the course of our relationship (better environment probably helps), but still suffers from the effects. She was a victim of S.A. in her 20s and also suffered similar abuse with the ex-hubby. Also has self image issues, though I still find her very attractive and she knows it.
We get a long very well...but sex is the only thing we have argued about and this is from nearly the beginning of the relationship (I know, I know). Also lack of communication had been a problem that comes up but not as often. The issues reached their peak during an expensive vacation overseas when we fought over sex...she was 5 weeks pregnant at the time which was her reasoning. Anyway, things really tanked after that. She was working at the time as well, which further created distance as she was tired at the end of the day. I was constantly being rejected and with anger. We would have sex once every two weeks, maybe once a week...where I wanted 2-3 times a week.
Since then, we have tried a lot of different things and every once in awhile she'd suggest I see other women to meet my needs and I've never entertained those comments.
After awhile (before coming to this site) I figured out that I needed to focus on myself. I work from home and I didn't do much and was always at the house and while she was a temporary SAHM with our baby, she probably felt smothered. So I said to myself that before she goes back to work...I'm going to improve myself so that her attraction will go up and she'll want to be around me more often.
So I put on some good weight (I was very skinny before), joined an adult men's sport league...occasionally headed out to spend weekends with buddies/men in my family, etc. Basically I started doing my own thing and during this time when I was rejected for sex, I didn't make a big deal about it. After some time, I noticed improvements...we communicated more, she wanted to spend time with me, she used to be distracted by facebook...she closed her account to limit that distraction (without any pressure from me, though she knew it was an issue), she shows jealousy more and lastly, sex increased to about 2-3 times a week. The only issue being that I was still always the initiator and I could tell she was only doing it for me...40-50% of the time she'd orgasm, the other times she wouldn't even try or even want to orgasm.
Fast forward to today. I get a text out of the blue that she wants to discuss our sex life (she never initiates conversation on sex). During the talk she said that she feels that she has a Sexual Aversion Disorder (which she's hinted to in the past). I don't want to accept that and after reading through this site, it confirms my feelings that it's something else (eg. attraction). I ask if she's always felt like that...she said every relationship she's been in has ended because of it and she's been cheated on by nearly every guy she's dated (and her ex-hubby). I've known this and can confirm it because we have common friends going back almost 20 years...but I just figured she dated a lot of a--holes.
She said she doesn't want to lose me and would rather me see someone else then me leave the relationship. My last words to her on this were that I'd like her to get a medical opinion before discussing any changes in our marriage. She agreed that she'd consult a doctor but I don't know if she'll follow through.
I'm at a loss here....I feel like some progress was made and now we are taking 30 steps back.
0
Comments
You may always be the initiator, it is not an uncommon occurence. It doesn't mean she isn't attracted to you, it just means that's her sexual style. You also shouldn't feel bad that she is only having sex because you want to. She is still choosing to have sex with you. Again that is not uncommon.
What your wife is doing with the "you should go out and get someone else" is a loyalty test and a display of her own insecurities. She needs what we call beta/relationship comfort.
Get and read the MMSL Primer and eventually watch the videos. Read the blog and look around some more.
A triage would also be helpful:
http://marriedmansexlife.com/triage-your-relationship-and-the-911-er-category/
I think it is a good sign that she wants to discuss if she has Sexual Aversion Disorder.
A couple of blog posts you might find helpful:
http://hightmarriage.com/the-secret-reason-your-wife-doesnt-initiate-sex/
http://hightmarriage.com/how-to-trigger-her-responsive-desire-get-the-sex-you-want/
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
Thanks...I just read through them. According to my wife, it's not simply a lack of responsive desire. She's nearly repulsed by the idea of sex (in general).
What do you mean by "S. A."?
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
oh...and S.A. = sexual assault/rape
A key part of the process is to have a partner who gives the impression of being unshakably confident in the possibility of having a healthy sex life. In other words, frame.
But not for you.
Your wife have a trauma, she talk about open marriage just because she's in fear. It can't work that way.
That's a loyalty test... if you refuse the open marriage and reaffirm your love for her she'll be able to make more progress to heal her trauma.
But if you agree, distance between you will grow, and there are high probability that you end up with one other girl you'll see.
Be adamant about you loving her and her going over her trauma. Show confidence. That's the way to keep the progress and keep them to happen.
"True, I guess what throws me off is that she's had these problems in almost every relationship she's had...does that mean she lost or never fully held an attraction for these guys?"
Exactly, she never trust enough these other guys for being attracted and go over the trauma. You'll be the first
She's got how many kids, did you say? Two children with you, plus you imply at least one to another man.... she's been married before, and sounds like has had several sex partners in her life.
So this is a woman who's had plenty of sex over the course of her life time, with several partners. Unless she's been closing her eyes tight shut and reciting poetry to herself during the act every time, I'd say the whole "Sexual Aversion Disorder" is a smokescreen.
Women often say this. They never mean it.
Do not take this statement at face value.
That's what's really going on.
She feels guilty about not being attracted. and she's worried about losing you.
She doesn't feel physically attracted to you - so she doesn't want to have sex - but she likes being in the relationship with you.
Her solution: "I have a disorder (not wanting sex), so you go sleep around, I won't mind."
And if she can give the whole thing a serious medical title, then she might be able to sell this lemon to you .... and herself.
That's what I thought as well...but I'd be lying if I said that I didn't see signs of this from the very beginning of our relationship. A common theme I see with the stories I'm reading on here is that the sex was great in the beginning of these relationships, uninhibited with the wife initiating (due to high attraction). We never had that...and the sex frequency was the same as what we recently got back to (2-3 times a week). Hard to really quantify because we spent the first 6 months in a long distance relationship, so I can only go by when I moved to the same town.
I will say though that since I've focused on myself, she has consistently shown a heightened attraction to me in ways I've never seen (or it was rare) throughout our relationship, it just hasn't translated into her ripping my clothes off (but the rejection has stopped).
telyni at gmail
I would agree...in the past she would keep to herself, not make much of an effort to be around me or talk to me. We don't have those issues anymore which makes me believe the "sex aversion" is something deeper than attraction because she's showed an interest in me lately that she hasn't shown before.
I will take your advice and make sure I hit those points
Not everyone needs intense therapy after abuse ... but everyone should at least have one session with a skilled therapist to make sure they have recovered emotionally from the experience.
It sounds like your wife probably needs more than one session ... but I'm no expert. (just another abuse survivor) She might be resistant to therapy though, so your job is to MAP until you can request that she attend therapy to help your marriage, and she realizes you are worth going to therapy to stay with.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
If she has suffered abuse, then she needs support in whatever therapy/counseling/pastoral care/other that you can get to help her work out her unresolved issues and return to health.
The past sexual abuse very likely has A LOT to do with your wife's sexual aversion. It did for my wife ... but so did my behavior.
You're making good first steps. Outcome independence (OI) is critical. No arguments about sex, no whining about sex, no pouting or passive aggressive behavior. It's critical in terms of both attraction and allowing her to safely share her sexuality with you.
Very likely she needs some therapy. It can take a lot of work working past the damage done by sexual abuse. My wife's been getting help for a year now, and there's still a long way to go. Sounds like she she may be open to getting help. If you're in a position to do so, you should definitely lead her in that direction.
Yes and no. She's had therapy to address her depression and her past abuse was discussed but that wasn't the primary focus (these were solo sessions, so I'm going by her recounting to me).
Also, she went to sex therapy with her ex-husband but it was pretty much forced on her, so she resented the whole experience and didn't get anything out of it. I understand because he was controlling & abusive (all Alpha, very little Beta).
Lastly, we had premarital counseling where her past abuse came up, but we didn't continue the sessions once we got married.
She has said it a number of times over the years and I've shot it down every time. She knows that's not what I want...so it's definitely a test in my book and I treat it as such.
Thank you for sharing your story, I can identify a lot with that.
Some additional context:
My wife's first negative experience in relation to sexuality would probably be with her first long term boyfriend in high school...he ended up cheating on her and she believes it was because she wouldn't lose her virginity to him. I was her next relationship once she came to college and she ended up losing her virginity with me. I never cheated on her during that time but every guy afterwards did (or she strongly suspected they did).
Also, a very important detail I left out in my original post: My wife works in a field where she deals daily with victims of sexual abuse and physical abuse. I think this also has a significant impact. She acknowledges that she carries with her a lot of what she experiences at work, but it's something she's passionate about.
She knows she needs to see someone but she has anxieties from previous sessions that she needs to overcome. She's also concerned about costs...but honestly, cost isn't an issue for me and I've told her that.
If she works in a field like this, she should definitely have someone she can talk to so she can process the pain and emotions she picks up at work.
Your wife may be internalizing the suffering of her clients/patients, then projecting that onto you. This will not help your marriage, not at all.
I have a friend who is a therapist ... most therapists see another therapist for this reason. By talking out the emotions they pick up from their clients, they avoid bringing that pain home with them.
Or, as a science fiction writer put it, "Shared pain is lessened, shared joy is magnified."
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH