Sexual Aversion/Open Marriage

Angeline

While it may be her passion, it could be that she isn't emotionally strong enough to do the job.

Or at least that could be part of a phase 4 statement of expectations, once you get yourself straightened out, that she learn how to do her job in a healthy way, or she give it up. Then idea that she's too weak to do it might be the kick in the pants she needs to learn some healthy coping skills.

Beans

Angeline said:

While it may be her passion, it could be that she isn't emotionally strong enough to do the job.

Or at least that could be part of a phase 4 statement of expectations, once you get yourself straightened out, that she learn how to do her job in a healthy way, or she give it up. Then idea that she's too weak to do it might be the kick in the pants she needs to learn some healthy coping skills.

I would say that is accurate and she is aware that she may not be able to handle. Yet, she feels like she is needed to help these individuals and it's her calling....but recently she has been admitting that she is losing motivation to go into work. I make enough where she doesn't have to work, so there is no financial pressure for her to work, she's simply doing it because it's been a passion.

With that said, I believe there will be an opening soon where she could be convinced to quit.

The problem is that she will eventually get bored at home which is a trigger for her depression...hence why she eventually went back to work.

Angeline

Why are the choices work and be dysfunctional, stay at home and be dysfunctional?

I'm saying work on yourself, to make a better life and incidentally gain the leverage to get her to handle her shit or get a better job.

Frank_London

Angeline said:

Why are the choices work and be dysfunctional, stay at home and be dysfunctional?

Exactly. The third possibility is to get a job doing something else.

Beans

I had a situation last night that left me confused and I hope someone here can "decode" it for me:

First, I should say that usually in the past when we had discussions or arguments around sex...I would withdraw (and so would she). But the "new" me has been trying to not let it affect me. So even though we talked a little bit about the "aversion" yesterday morning, I kept my spirits up and told her to meet me for lunch.

We had lunch, very upbeat...no discussions on sex...just a normal and positive time.

Fast forward to last night. Some context: I'm not a TV watcher and the only time I do watch TV, it's the news (or specifically CNN), especially during election time like now (which she has NO interest in).

She watches more TV than I do and usually does in the bedroom (netflix) and I'll usually watch CNN in the living room.

After dinner, I proceeded to the living room and I hear CNN in the bedroom. I didn't think anything of it. Then she comes out of the bedroom and said "Hey, I've got CNN on in here". So I take the hint that she wants me in there and that she has it on for me, so I join her.

A little later she lights two candles, which isn't unusual if she's wanting to freshen up the air but I'm asking myself "is she trying to create a mood?".

She then takes a shower, but comes out in the "not tonight" pajamas, so to me that pretty much ruled out any intimate reasons for the candles. Once the TV goes off, shes holding on to me, laying on my chest. It was a great feeling but I didn't make a sexual move considering the conversations we just had. So I hug her, tell her goodnight/I love her and head back to the living room (I stay up later then she does).

Did I miss a signal or something?

Reborn

Are you sure they're "not tonight" pajamas?

Beans

Reborn said:

Are you sure they're "not tonight" pajamas?

Based on my experiences with her, yes. Usually her signal that things will "happen" is if she comes to bed naked or with just a shirt (no panties). Anything else has been indicative of rejection (or an attempt to).

Also the fact that the day before she told me she had an aversion to sex, led me to also believe they were "not tonight" clothing.

Beans

*double post deleted*

SignorePillolaRossa

i use to make the mistake of deciding not to initiate if i wanted sex because my wife came to bed in pyjamas ... same as you describe, if she came to bed naked, i knew i was getting some but if she was dressed, i 'knew' she wasnt in the mood ... or at least, thats what i told myself ...

after reading here and MAPping, i decided that pyjamas come off as easy as they go on - so i initiated more often ... it was not 100% conversion (or anything close) .... but i'd say a good 1 in 3 were converted ... it was quick duty sex but it was better than nothing ...

the thing i made sure to NOT do was to be tentative in my initiation ... i was not 'all cuddly/snuggly' and maybe kinda sorta rubbing my erection into her thigh or cupping a breast so as to telegraph a hint that i want sex and hoping she'd say or do something to advance that towards happening ... i made sure she knew that my advance was directly sexual with my words and kisses and grabbing and moving into position ... if she kissed back even a little i knew i was good to go and pulled off her bottoms (she'd usually remover her own top at the same time) ...

if she said 'no, not tonight i'm tired' ... i just stopped, reached around to squeeze her ass once quickly and smirkily said 'your loss, sweetcheeks' then kissed her once quickly , rolled off and went to sleep ...

on more than one occasion after i'd rolled off (because she said 'no'), she'd wait a few minutes, roll over onto me, grab my shaft and say 'well, now i cant sleep' and proceeded to climb on top for a quickie

so dont cockblock yourself when she has pyjamas on - make her own her 'no' if she doesnt want sex

more importantly, i think you did well to not push it last night given the conversations ... by showing you are OI about her situation, you started to establish your own frame on this topic

i think you couldve initiated after all that time connecting and it wouldve been fine but i also think it was fine to not initiate .... hell, maybe you can even score some romance points by telling her today ow nice it felt to just spend time leisurely in bed with her last night

just make sure you DO initiate when you do want sex or else you will be slipping into her frame

also, consider adjusting your bedtimes to go to bed at the same time ... proximity increases probability

good luck

Tennee

HildaCorners said:

Also, a very important detail I left out in my original post: My wife works in a field where she deals daily with victims of sexual abuse and physical abuse. I think this also has a significant impact. She acknowledges that she carries with her a lot of what she experiences at work, but it's something she's passionate about.

If she works in a field like this, she should definitely have someone she can talk to so she can process the pain and emotions she picks up at work.

I want to echo this - its very, VERY important.  If you work in a 'blood and guts' (using that metaphorically) line of work - what you see and deal with everyday is going to affect you.  It is, there is no "I'm stronger than that, I can take it".  That's bullshit. Dealing with the worst of human behavior on a daily basis will absolutely, 110% take a toll on you - I don't care how tough you are on the outside.

Its easy to say 'go get another job' - those who purposely choose to work in fields most folks would run from are there for a reason - it was in their makeup.  They were drawn to this kind of work; its in very the core of their being.  No, I'm not kidding.  It'd be like telling someone 'go leave your identity at the door and be someone else, right now'.  Especially if they have significant levels of education, specialized training, and frankly are good at what they do.  White-Knighting?  Maybe, but it gets in your bone marrow.  And it doesn't come out.

So, as both a survivor/victim AND someone who has chosen to work dealing with a horror show on a routine basis, she - for certain - needs to have a professional outlet in which to process and release the corrosion.  Or it will get deep down in the Shadow, and manifest itself in very, very ugly ways. 

Welcome aboard - you have excellent advice here.  Start your journey. 

Beans

SignorePillolaRossa 

Thanks. I should clarify that I wasn't horny or thinking about sex at the time which is also why I didn't initiate....but I'm of the mindset that I won't pass up an "invitation", which is why I was wondering if she was trying to tell me something.

Very true about the pajamas....when I've been really in the mood...I didn't let that deter me, but I also knew that meant it would be an uphill battle and lately until the aversion subject came up, I was only getting flat out rejected maybe 10% of the time I initiated (where it used to be 50% of the time).

Beans

Tennee said:

HildaCorners said:

Also, a very important detail I left out in my original post: My wife works in a field where she deals daily with victims of sexual abuse and physical abuse. I think this also has a significant impact. She acknowledges that she carries with her a lot of what she experiences at work, but it's something she's passionate about.

If she works in a field like this, she should definitely have someone she can talk to so she can process the pain and emotions she picks up at work.

I want to echo this - its very, VERY important.  If you work in a 'blood and guts' (using that metaphorically) line of work - what you see and deal with everyday is going to affect you.  It is, there is no "I'm stronger than that, I can take it".  That's bullshit. Dealing with the worst of human behavior on a daily basis will absolutely, 110% take a toll on you - I don't care how tough you are on the outside.

Its easy to say 'go get another job' - those who purposely choose to work in fields most folks would run from are there for a reason - it was in their makeup.  They were drawn to this kind of work; its in very the core of their being.  No, I'm not kidding.  It'd be like telling someone 'go leave your identity at the door and be someone else, right now'.  Especially if they have significant levels of education, specialized training, and frankly are good at what they do.  White-Knighting?  Maybe, but it gets in your bone marrow.  And it doesn't come out.

So, as both a survivor/victim AND someone who has chosen to work dealing with a horror show on a routine basis, she - for certain - needs to have a professional outlet in which to process and release the corrosion.  Or it will get deep down in the Shadow, and manifest itself in very, very ugly ways. 

Welcome aboard - you have excellent advice here.  Start your journey. 

Thank you. She has been looking up therapists...which is a good sign, I just need to find a way to make sure she follows through without causing her to feel pressure or anxiety. I know she will feel like if I'm checking in for updates, that I'm trying to rush her in order to "fix our sex life".

Tennee

Good,  does the employer provide counseling/ EAP / etc.?  Check that - many employers that deal with the detritus of life provide this as a benefit; for some its even mandatory. 

Angeline

Tennee said:

I want to echo this - its very, VERY important.  If you work in a 'blood and guts' (using that metaphorically) line of work - what you see and deal with everyday is going to affect you.  It is, there is no "I'm stronger than that, I can take it".  That's bullshit. Dealing with the worst of human behavior on a daily basis will absolutely, 110% take a toll on you - I don't care how tough you are on the outside.

Its easy to say 'go get another job' - those who purposely choose to work in fields most folks would run from are there for a reason - it was in their makeup.  They were drawn to this kind of work; its in very the core of their being.  No, I'm not kidding.  It'd be like telling someone 'go leave your identity at the door and be someone else, right now'.  Especially if they have significant levels of education, specialized training, and frankly are good at what they do.  White-Knighting?  Maybe, but it gets in your bone marrow.  And it doesn't come out.

So, as both a survivor/victim AND someone who has chosen to work dealing with a horror show on a routine basis, she - for certain - needs to have a professional outlet in which to process and release the corrosion.  Or it will get deep down in the Shadow, and manifest itself in very, very ugly ways. 

Welcome aboard - you have excellent advice here.  Start your journey. 

However noble the job, if you can't handle it and have a healthy identity outside the job, then something needs to change. It may be that having a lot of education and tenure gives added incentive to find help, but it shouldn't be a blank check for behaving poorly. As it stands now, @Beans is also paying a price for her job. At the end of the day, it is still just a job.

Beans

Tennee said:

Good,  does the employer provide counseling/ EAP / etc.?  Check that - many employers that deal with the detritus of life provide this as a benefit; for some its even mandatory. 

 I don't believe so as it's a non-profit organization

Rico

I work at a non-profit, and our health insurance has EAP.  It's worth exploring.

Katt

The nonprofit my husband works for also has a pretty comprehensive EAP.   

Scarlet

I see a lot of horrifying things in my work - to the extent that I don't talk about stuff much because it would be so terribly upsetting for others to hear.

Yes, it's in my blood and I love my job deeply but there is a limit.  For me, I have a very strong bond with coworkers, we have debriefing sessions when something particularly terrible happens, and it's all balanced with feeling like we make a very positive impact.

That doesn't mean everyone can handle it.  Hopefully she'll learn how to work in her favorite environment without it negatively affecting the marriage, but if she doesn't then you have every right to expect a change.  We have to set boundaries around work and realize that the world is not ours to save. 

zook

Beans said:

I would agree...in the past she would keep to herself, not make much of an effort to be around me or talk to me. We don't have those issues anymore which makes me believe the "sex aversion" is something deeper than attraction because she's showed an interest in me lately that she hasn't shown before.

I will take your advice and make sure I hit those points

I'd be a little careful of what she says vs what her subconscious actually thinks.

My wife has always said she doesn't care what I earn... But I get more sex after a pay rise/promotion.... She has always said work a job that makes you happy, I don't care what you do...But recently after realising how much authority and responsibility I have at work, she can't keep her hands off me. And is doing things she has always refused too.

She genuinely may not realise her subconscious doesn't find you attractive (for any of the reasons listed in athols books) but she doesn't know why so her conscious brain rationalises this lack of attraction as 'sex aversion'

 Until you have read the MAP book, and worked on a triage and to become awesome I think it's a dangerous path to let her believe she has SA or any other disorder. 

Beans

zook said:

Beans said:

I would agree...in the past she would keep to herself, not make much of an effort to be around me or talk to me. We don't have those issues anymore which makes me believe the "sex aversion" is something deeper than attraction because she's showed an interest in me lately that she hasn't shown before.

I will take your advice and make sure I hit those points

I'd be a little careful of what she says vs what her subconscious actually thinks.

My wife has always said she doesn't care what I earn... But I get more sex after a pay rise/promotion.... She has always said work a job that makes you happy, I don't care what you do...But recently after realising how much authority and responsibility I have at work, she can't keep her hands off me. And is doing things she has always refused too.

She genuinely may not realise her subconscious doesn't find you attractive (for any of the reasons listed in athols books) but she doesn't know why so her conscious brain rationalises this lack of attraction as 'sex aversion'

 Until you have read the MAP book, and worked on a triage and to become awesome I think it's a dangerous path to let her believe she has SA or any other disorder. 

I've been going back and forth about that in my head. There's nothing that has changed in the last few months (structurally) that would cause her to suddenly show interest. The only thing that's changed is that I've focused more on myself and not had an emotional reaction to rejection (less fights). I think the attention she's been showing is real....but is it possible for her to have a heighten attraction that doesn't immediately translate to sexual desire (due to medical or trauma issues)?