HildaCornersWinter? You call *that* winter?Gold WomenPosts: 3,377
Monkeydog, the trust issues may not be important to you.
That's fine ... we all have different boundaries and there's no reason yours should be the same as Beans'.
If you read the whole thread, you'll see we had a lot of discussion on whether stbx Beans was out of line or not, if Beans should give her an ultimatum, if she had none anything divorce-worthy. He decided she had done so, and gave her the A/B.
You might have come to a different conclusion ... fine. You're not Beans. Just don't judge his actions by your standards, judge them by his.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
Well, I was right that my opinion wouldn't be a popular one.
It doesn't feel right to me, but I'm not Beans and this isn't my marriage.
So many here have weathered much worse, it seems, including EA's, PA's and years without sex, only to turn it around.
I wouldn't put up with a sexless marriage and I would file immediately if I had proof of a PA or serious EA.
Beans, I am not trying to change your mind, just offering my flawed perspective.
Whatever happens, you've got this.
You're right, others have fared far worse and I think about that constantly. On top of that, our sex life was improving (and we never were sexless), we were having more fun..going out on more dates, she was cuddling/affectionate with me. All of that progress out the window (well..almost, we were still doing some of these things post-separation, ill-advised of course).
But at the same time...communication is very important to me and it's been a constant issue with her. Ranging from little things like getting the side of the car scraped accidentally and "forgetting" to tell me about it for days.....to major life decisions like applying/being accepted into school. Also, her nature of acting like a young single person (in terms of responsibility/honesty, not fidelity). This has been an ongoing bubble waiting to pop. Like @Husband3point0 pointed out....her parents, having very little information to go on, decided to be on my side....which totally shocked me. That tells me that the issues may be bigger than I believed and they see it too (and probably have for while). They've probably had several "talks" with her over the years that I never knew about.
With that said, if she were to come to me tomorrow and say "hey I want to reconsider my A/B and I'm willing to make changes"...I'd drop the divorce in a heartbeat. But she hasn't....she maybe pushed back for about 30 minutes after I told her my intent. I want a wife that will fight for her marriage...STBX is not the one (at least not now) and never has been. She makes a great girlfriend but poor wife/partner and I've accepted that. Even with that, I still want it to work out....but I can't go back to the way things were and that ball is in her court now.
Remember that she floated 'open marriage' (hence the title) before being busted concealing convos with OM. That is not a coincidence.
In all fairness, I don't believe those two are related. She's mentioned several times in the past that I needed a GF on the side...usually when we were fighting about sex. It was a loyalty test.
Up until this fall....she wasn't hiding communication, she wasn't changing her passwords (prior to the changes, she had the same ones for years). I can say with about 95% certainty that she wasn't hiding contact with other men before this. Sure, you never really know but if she was having any EAs/PAs, she was a ninja with superior technical skills.
I wouldn't put up with a sexless marriage and I would file immediately if I had proof of a PA or serious EA.
In that context, communication (eg. open/honest) is just as (if not more) important to me as a healthy sex life. STBX would never believe me when I'd tell her that...but you know what...throughout all the issues we had over sex, I never once thought about leaving her over it.
I have been following your story and felt I would be remiss if I didn't weigh in on the side of maybe, just maybe, trying to salvage this.
This is about you and what you want from life, but I hope she comes to her senses.
And I think you do too.
Of course I want to salvage it, but not at the expense of giving up what I feel are reasonable expectations in the marriage. I don't know how to salvage the relationship without doing that or without her coming to her senses. I know that I'm not going to hold her hand and point her in the right direction.
Remember that she floated 'open marriage' (hence the title) before being busted concealing convos with OM. That is not a coincidence.
In all fairness, I don't believe those two are related. She's mentioned several times in the past that I needed a GF on the side...usually when we were fighting about sex. It was a loyalty test.
Up until this fall....she wasn't hiding communication, she wasn't changing her passwords (prior to the changes, she had the same ones for years). I can say with about 95% certainty that she wasn't hiding contact with other men before this. Sure, you never really know but if she was having any EAs/PAs, she was a ninja with superior technical skills.
It would not be the first time this forum has seen the 'open marriage' thing put on the table for the purported 'benefit' of one party, then the offering party blows the doors off of it if one takes the bait. "YOU took a GF, so there". Its premeditated, advanced permission for an affair.
Absent all the other stuff, I'd be prone to agree - Loyalty Test. Here....hmmmmmmmm
We'll never likely know.
"Fall down seven times, stand up eight" Japanese Proverb
Remember that she floated 'open marriage' (hence the title) before being busted concealing convos with OM. That is not a coincidence.
In all fairness, I don't believe those two are related. She's mentioned several times in the past that I needed a GF on the side...usually when we were fighting about sex. It was a loyalty test.
Up until this fall....she wasn't hiding communication, she wasn't changing her passwords (prior to the changes, she had the same ones for years). I can say with about 95% certainty that she wasn't hiding contact with other men before this. Sure, you never really know but if she was having any EAs/PAs, she was a ninja with superior technical skills.
It would not be the first time this forum has seen the 'open marriage' thing put on the table for the purported 'benefit' of one party, then the offering party blows the doors off of it if one takes the bait. "YOU took a GF, so there". Its premeditated, advanced permission for an affair.
Absent all the other stuff, I'd be prone to agree - Loyalty Test. Here....hmmmmmmmm
We'll never likely know.
Yeah...I get it, given her behavior it's hard to believe she hasn't cheated. But believe me, there's been times I thought she was (including when she made the open marriage comment) and I had to verify...and the conclusion was that there's been zero evidence she's had an affair or even pursued one throughout or marriage. Is it possible? Sure...but based on what I've seen and know, not likely.
This recent issue with the male friend was the most evidence I've seen of inappropriate contact...and she didn't cover her tracks very well, which leads me to believe this was a first for her.
@MissD I'm sorry you disagreed with my post. However there is more moving parts here with this story and thread. I wasn't attempting to be disrespectful at all to women. But really for the most part when men and women are friends the inevitable happens much of the time. They end up in bed together.
Into Phase 3..
Those Who Dare......Win. "What gives you fear today...Gives you Strength tomorrow.."
@MissD I'm sorry you disagreed with my post. However there is more moving parts here with this story and thread. I wasn't attempting to be disrespectful at all to women. But really for the most part when men and women are friends the inevitable happens much of the time. They end up in bed together.
I'm going to share an old conversation straight from the horses mouth, this is verbatim from back when STBX and I were just dating and discussing us meeting up with a female friend I had at the time:
STBX: When's the last time you saw her?
ME: towards the beginning of last year
STBX: She's seen you naked? ME: lol, no
STBX: Yeah, she's seen you naked!
ME: why do you ask that?
STBX: It's an obvious question.
ME: it's never been like that
STBX: My theory is that all guy/girl friendships at one point someone was interested in the other person. But, then one or both realize that it's better to remain friends or the attraction fades.
ME: does that apply in your friendships?
STBX: possibly. but I'm talking about you right now.
I think STBX wants to go back to being a young single, but is still attracted enough to Beans to want him as one of her BFs (I know Beans does not find that acceptable). But if he still sleeps with her, she has that open marriage.
As for male-female friendships, yes, one or both are sexually interested, but I know from experience even if both are interested, often they never manage to get together, and it remains platonic.
Comments
That's fine ... we all have different boundaries and there's no reason yours should be the same as Beans'.
If you read the whole thread, you'll see we had a lot of discussion on whether stbx Beans was out of line or not, if Beans should give her an ultimatum, if she had none anything divorce-worthy. He decided she had done so, and gave her the A/B.
You might have come to a different conclusion ... fine. You're not Beans. Just don't judge his actions by your standards, judge them by his.
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
But at the same time...communication is very important to me and it's been a constant issue with her. Ranging from little things like getting the side of the car scraped accidentally and "forgetting" to tell me about it for days.....to major life decisions like applying/being accepted into school. Also, her nature of acting like a young single person (in terms of responsibility/honesty, not fidelity). This has been an ongoing bubble waiting to pop. Like @Husband3point0 pointed out....her parents, having very little information to go on, decided to be on my side....which totally shocked me. That tells me that the issues may be bigger than I believed and they see it too (and probably have for while). They've probably had several "talks" with her over the years that I never knew about.
With that said, if she were to come to me tomorrow and say "hey I want to reconsider my A/B and I'm willing to make changes"...I'd drop the divorce in a heartbeat. But she hasn't....she maybe pushed back for about 30 minutes after I told her my intent. I want a wife that will fight for her marriage...STBX is not the one (at least not now) and never has been. She makes a great girlfriend but poor wife/partner and I've accepted that. Even with that, I still want it to work out....but I can't go back to the way things were and that ball is in her court now.
Up until this fall....she wasn't hiding communication, she wasn't changing her passwords (prior to the changes, she had the same ones for years). I can say with about 95% certainty that she wasn't hiding contact with other men before this. Sure, you never really know but if she was having any EAs/PAs, she was a ninja with superior technical skills.
I don't know what I would do in your position.
I have been following your story and felt I would be remiss if I didn't weigh in on the side of maybe, just maybe, trying to salvage this.
This is about you and what you want from life, but I hope she comes to her senses.
And I think you do too.
Absent all the other stuff, I'd be prone to agree - Loyalty Test. Here....hmmmmmmmm
We'll never likely know.
How will you live well today?
This recent issue with the male friend was the most evidence I've seen of inappropriate contact...and she didn't cover her tracks very well, which leads me to believe this was a first for her.
They end up in bed together.
Into Phase 3..
Those Who Dare......Win. "What gives you fear today...Gives you Strength tomorrow.."ME: lol, no
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
As for male-female friendships, yes, one or both are sexually interested, but I know from experience even if both are interested, often they never manage to get together, and it remains platonic.