Is this marriage toast?

Tennee

@Stuckinlimbo said:

I have done that. The last time very forcefully told her she needs counseling. She always agrees. She still hasn't done the counseling except to talk to our MC who told her that her physical abuse is reasonable considering that I haven't recommitted to the marriage. 

And that should be the end of that person's license.  As in, I would report that, were I you, to the CA Board of Behavioral Sciences, which oversees and enforces LMFTs, which is how a MC is licensed in CA.  

Stuckinlimbo

I have never seen her credentials. She works through our church. After our counseling I am not sure if she could possibly be licensed. I will find out. She did provide a lot of cover for the wife because of FOO issues. I am not satisfied at all with a lot of the advice. 

Tennee

Stuckinlimbo said:

I have never seen her credentials. She works through our church. After our counseling I am not sure if she could possibly be licensed. I will find out. She did provide a lot of cover for the wife because of FOO issues. I am not satisfied at all with a lot of the advice. 

I imagine the 'hitting you' part in particular.  Y'all are currently seeing this person? 

frillyfun

It's time for a new counselor then.  No one should condone physical violence.

Stuckinlimbo

Tennee said:

Stuckinlimbo said:

I have never seen her credentials. She works through our church. After our counseling I am not sure if she could possibly be licensed. I will find out. She did provide a lot of cover for the wife because of FOO issues. I am not satisfied at all with a lot of the advice. 

I imagine the 'hitting you' part in particular.  Y'all are currently seeing this person? 

No we are not currently seeing her for MC. My wife is now seeing her on her own. She won't see me anymore due to the fact that I was involved with another person while in MC a year ago. Like I said though I have completely stopped that. I do realize that showed a complete lack of integrity on my part regardless of what she did. She doesn't want to resume MC until I  have been NC for about a year (which it has been). I am not sure if counseling would even help anyways at this point. She also says my lack of empathy for how I acted after my wife's affair shows that I might be narcissistic. I don't agree. I have tons of empathy for people, I  am just not super sorry about this. 

Angeline

This is what your wife reported the counselor said. She isn't exactly a reliable source.

Rorschach

If you "already did", then speak to another (better) lawyer. Most English speaking Western jurisdictions regard parental access as the right of the child, not the parent. So, it's hard to believe that the lawyer actually told you she could possibly take them to another jurisdiction, at least legally.

Oh, and practice walking away from arguments, whether you stay or go. That's something you can control.

Reborn

A counselor would be struck off for condoning violence.

al2682

If the counselor works through the church, I would see if you could talk to her to verify the acceptable use of violence and then talk to the church.

And I am being gracious about talking to her first (damn nice guy in me).  You should probably go straight to the church.  If the counselor never said it, it will come out in the aftermath or she won't be a counselor there for long.

Stuckinlimbo

Rorschach said:

If you "already did", then speak to another (better) lawyer. Most English speaking Western jurisdictions regard parental access as the right of the child, not the parent. So, it's hard to believe that the lawyer actually told you she could possibly take them to another jurisdiction, at least legally.

Oh, and practice walking away from arguments, whether you stay or go. That's something you can control.

Baically since she doesn't work and because California is so expensive the judge could rule that it is in the best interest of the children to go with her to a more affordable state. That is assuming that she gets custody. I'm not sure she would..i worry because I was on suicide watch on D-day. I'm pretty sure that would be held against me. I was never charged with anything or arrested but I was clearly distraught and forced to spend 2days in an institution. Definitely something that detracts from my ability to care for the kids.

Stuckinlimbo

Angeline said:

This is what your wife reported the counselor said. She isn't exactly a reliable source.

Good point. I need to ask her. I do think she probably did because she has put a lot of the blame for our problems on my lack of commitment. She says I'm making her crazy. She doesn't realize she has been physically abusive from the beginning of our relationship.

Stuckinlimbo

Tennee said:

Stuckinlimbo said:

I have never seen her credentials. She works through our church. After our counseling I am not sure if she could possibly be licensed. I will find out. She did provide a lot of cover for the wife because of FOO issues. I am not satisfied at all with a lot of the advice. 

I imagine the 'hitting you' part in particular.  Y'all are currently seeing this person? 

We haven't sat down as a couple with her for about a year. My wife talks with her still. After the last time she hit me I told her to get counseling or anger management and she saw her. That was about a month ago. 

HildaCorners

Stuckinlimbo said:

Basically since she doesn't work and because California is so expensive the judge could rule that it is in the best interest of the children to go with her to a more affordable state. That is assuming that she gets custody. I'm not sure she would..i worry because I was on suicide watch on D-day. I'm pretty sure that would be held against me. I was never charged with anything or arrested but I was clearly distraught and forced to spend 2days in an institution. Definitely something that detracts from my ability to care for the kids. 

It's a lot more difficult than that.

I'm involved in a similar case ... I want to move from an expensive state to a cheaper one; I have full custody; my ex was abusive and I had restraining orders on him to protect me and the kids.

In my state, any move has to be in the best interests of the kids, as proved by law. The more of these factors, the better:
- a rock-solid job offer, for more money than I can get locally;
- a guaranteed place to live;
- legal proof that my kids will not suffer for being ### miles from their father;
- a visit plan so they can see him sometimes;
- other rock solid proof that the kids will have a better life if I move us.

I've been working on my case for 2 years (divorce began 5 years ago). It's been a long road, and very expensive, but will be worth every penny if I can make it work.

I'm going into this detail to show you that your wife can't just pack the kids up and leave ... you can file charges if she does.

From my view, you've had low-quality therapists and lawyers. You need to talk to the best you can find, not the cheapest or most available. You've made some major mistakes, and so has your wife ... stop making them, if only for the kids.

Stuckinlimbo

HildaCorners said:

Stuckinlimbo said:

Basically since she doesn't work and because California is so expensive the judge could rule that it is in the best interest of the children to go with her to a more affordable state. That is assuming that she gets custody. I'm not sure she would..i worry because I was on suicide watch on D-day. I'm pretty sure that would be held against me. I was never charged with anything or arrested but I was clearly distraught and forced to spend 2days in an institution. Definitely something that detracts from my ability to care for the kids. 

It's a lot more difficult than that.

I'm involved in a similar case ... I want to move from an expensive state to a cheaper one; I have full custody; my ex was abusive and I had restraining orders on him to protect me and the kids.

In my state, any move has to be in the best interests of the kids, as proved by law. The more of these factors, the better:
- a rock-solid job offer, for more money than I can get locally;
- a guaranteed place to live;
- legal proof that my kids will not suffer for being ### miles from their father;
- a visit plan so they can see him sometimes;
- other rock solid proof that the kids will have a better life if I move us.

I've been working on my case for 2 years (divorce began 5 years ago). It's been a long road, and very expensive, but will be worth every penny if I can make it work.

I'm going into this detail to show you that your wife can't just pack the kids up and leave ... you can file charges if she does.

From my view, you've had low-quality therapists and lawyers. You need to talk to the best you can find, not the cheapest or most available. You've made some major mistakes, and so has your wife ... stop making them, if only for the kids.

I have not retained a lawyer. I have talked to 2 just trying to feel out what I am in for if I file for divorce. Basically she would have to get full custody and then she could. Any way you cut it, we blow through tons of cash hashing this out. I guess that is why I am posting. I need to get out of limbo and go one way or the other. TAM gave me the impression that neither one of us will ever be happy again in this marriage. I'm trying to see if anyone has overcome this damage and has been happy on the other end.

CartB4Horse

In addition to what everyone else is saying I'd like to point out that you need to DO NO MORE HARM to your marriage.  I'd imagine your wife would agree to that point as well.  Stop piling up the critical moments of neglect and start finding ways to work on things.

You've got a long road in front of you but I believe you two can do it.

Stuckinlimbo

CartB4Horse said:

In addition to what everyone else is saying I'd like to point out that you need to DO NO MORE HARM to your marriage.  I'd imagine your wife would agree to that point as well.  Stop piling up the critical moments of neglect and start finding ways to work on things.

You've got a long road in front of you but I believe you two can do it.

She would definitely agree. She is desperate to reconcile. Has been for almost 2 years. I have been on a roller coaster the whole time. Anyone think a separation would help level out the emotions to make reconciliation more likely?

Scarlet

I think that no matter if you stay or go, the two of you should go to marriage counseling together.  You have a lot of unhealthy patterns in your marriage, and it would be good to attempt to resolve or at least improve them, even if you end up divorcing. 

CartB4Horse

I wouldn't recommend a separation.

Your wife is "desperate" for reconciliation.  She's out of the fog (of her affair) and trying.  I believe YOU need to stop harming the relationship and start looking at ways for both of you to work together to start bridging the gap that separates you.

By no means do I condone physical abuse, I'd have that discussion with her that Tennee spoke about and I'd add in the "No more harm" clause.

@Stuckinlimbo, I understand the gut wrenching pain you are going thru.  I've been there.  Because I didn't fix what was wrong the first time my issues came back ten years and one wife later.

Can you BOTH go to a therapist together?

soa2005

I second @Scarlet regarding the counseling. You guys have done a lot of damage to each other. You're obviously still very upset by her affair, and that's totally understandable, but I think a decent counselor could help the two of you work through some of the harm and figure out positive ways to move forward ( whether you stay together or divorce).

Stuckinlimbo

CartB4Horse said:

I wouldn't recommend a separation.

Your wife is "desperate" for reconciliation.  She's out of the fog (of her affair) and trying.  I believe YOU need to stop harming the relationship and start looking at ways for both of you to work together to start bridging the gap that separates you.

By no means do I condone physical abuse, I'd have that discussion with her that Tennee spoke about and I'd add in the "No more harm" clause.

@Stuckinlimbo, I understand the gut wrenching pain you are going thru.  I've been there.  Because I didn't fix what was wrong the first time my issues came back ten years and one wife later.

Can you BOTH go to a therapist together?

Ya she is definitely out of the fog. She was pretty much at the get go. This blew  up in a dramatic fashion. She saw just how far she messed me up and how pissed I was. I did not tolerate the fog. I told everyone that was close,  called the POSOM's wife, and told her that she was out unless she completely cut contact immediately. I confronted him and his little punk but wanted nothing to do with her ever again. We tried to do therapy together but I was kicked out for getting involved with numerous other women. Like I  said though I have not been doing that at all anymore. Not sure if my feelings for her will ever come back.  I haven't had sex with my wife for we'll over a month. I  have worked out like crazy and now feel like there is greener grass. I am worried it would be a mistake that I regret later on considering I have a family with her. Do the feelings ever return? Can I  ever be happy? The girls I was involved with were beautiful. How do I  reconcile that?