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Apoc Intro and Triage
Apoc
Los AngelesSilver Member Posts: 5
Appreciate the read and the forum. Hopefully I can use this to diffuse a fair bit of frustration I am currently getting from my marriage. No punches pulled, please, but no trolling either. Thanks!
Q1- I am 37 and my wife just turned 41. We been married 7 years and have 3 great (yet tiring) kids, ages 6, 4, and 3. I’m 6’1” and weigh between 165 and 170lb, but have a good V-shape and stay pretty fit. My wife is about 5’4” and weighs around 108, again also pretty fit especially after 3 kids. I’m probably the slightly better looking of the two of us, but she has Asian genetics which tend to age better over time (I am white). Based on appearance only, I’d rate us both in the 7.5-8 range depending on clothes, etc. I get some bonus points for being a multi-instrument musician and singer, a good salary, and high education (MBA) which strengthens my rank although that doesn’t mean quite as much to my wife as she has similar attributes and achievements.
Q2 – Nothing medical on my part of note. For her, she has some joint issues mostly stemming from pregnancy/child care (i.e. carpal tunnel in the wrists, ankle and foot soreness). She also is a terribly light sleeper, which causes her to stay in bed for longer hours than me, including a daily nap, with probably less overall sleep. The former issue for her is dying down somewhat now that the kids are getting older, but the sleep thing is chronic. It’s being addressed as best as can be, but it’s worth mentioning here as an FYI.
Q3 – Here is where it will get interesting. While I have an MBA from a top-20 school and make 6 figures while working from home 3 days a week (+2 in the office), I am hopelessly out-gunned by my wife’s earning ability. She is also a SAHM with some significant family wealth that allows her to have rental properties that make a gross income higher than mine plus she has additional interest income and collects a salary from her family’s business that would add another 150K or so. I am pretty good at making my money stretch and do some of the property management work for her properties, but per the pre-nup, they will never actually be my properties where I can make the ultimate decisions on what to do with the income. With her assets and income, and my relative lack thereof most large financial decisions have gone through her. I also started our marriage with some credit card debt that I paid off some time ago, but am building my assets slowly and don’t have 40K 3x a year to drop on remodel projects, cars, expensive furniture, houses, etc. I own both cars, but she essentially owns the house as it was paid in cash, plus a large remodel work was her “baby” that went on for a year prior to when we moved in. I did what I could with the remodel and pitched in about 50K or so, but 50K out of .5MM isn’t much really. In addition to the financial decisions, she made most of the decisions and managed the contractors on a day-to-day basis while I was at work. With a whole house remodel, you have to watch these guys like hawks to be sure they are doing exactly like you wanted. Again, here is an example of where I chipped in where I could. For example: windows, floors, structural issues, appliances I have a knowledge base and a formed opinion on, but most of the finer details I either don’t know anything about or just don’t give a shit what decision is made. I felt it best that she handle most of these since she seems to have an opinion on nearly everything and is ultimately paying for it anyway. However, that dynamic was not optimal for our relationship, I fear.
This leads somewhat into Q4 in the critical moments of neglect. While I didn’t think I had other options regarding letting her handle the remodel with 2.5 small kids in tote (she was pregnant for much of it), I think this, coming on the heels of my 3 years going to business school at night, probably still sticks out to her as an area of failure. Ah, and as I mentioned she is also a SAHM, so she has generally had a better feel of how to parent our kids than I do simply due to spending more time with them. She is also a world-class neat freak in part due to her work on the home. I am not a slob by any means, but I just don’t put as high a value on having floors spotless every minute of every day like she does. I cook, I clean somewhat regularly if left to my own devices, I take care of the yard/spa/gazebo/cars/garage, but I couldn’t even begin to keep up with her list of little imperfections she brings to me on a daily basis. This is a constant complaint of hers, and through reading MMSL primer, I think the bulk of them are shit tests. I am learning to deal with them better, but there still may be something there that I am not getting. Over the last year and with working from home, I have become more in-tune with the kids and actually spend just as much time doing child-care as she does. She still tries to be the shot caller on anything kid related, and I don’t think I have developed my frame well enough to constantly lead in this area without her undermining me or just ignoring me altogether. I have also done the covert contract/PA blowup after not getting sex after she had given the green light and even set a time. I still get flashes of anger just typing that.
Q5 – None for her. Porn for me. Working on getting that under control and have been having success. I told her about it a couple years ago and she took it pretty bad (although at the time our sex life was so abysmal I wondered why she was surprised). Since I have seen the error of my ways and am working to steer clear of it. Of course, having sex on a more regular basis would certainly make this porn free journey much easier, but we all knew that.
Q6 – the sex went bad basically after the first child and still hasn’t recovered. I know the kids are a big part of it, but they can’t be the only part.
Q7 – Good sex 1-2x per week prior to kid #1. Now it’s once every 2-3 weeks and not consistent. Still decent when we have it of course. The issue is frequency.
Q8 – Hi, I’m Apoc and I am a nice guy. (Hi, Apoc)
Q9 – She is the leader in more cases due to kids, assets, income, and abnormally high home maintenance standards. With work (such as it is) I have a hard time keeping up even when getting out in front of it on a lot of issues. I don’t see it as feasible that I can take the reins of every aspect, so I am choosing my battles carefully and winning some of them. I need to be more strategic, however, because I am constantly working uphill.
Thoughts and criticisms welcome.
Apoc
Comments
1) Progress in MAP - dropped an inch from my waist and added a few lbs of muscle. Gradually bought nearly a whole new wardrobe including some new suits. Used other job offers to leverage a 40% raise at my current job. Took the lead on a vacation for just the wife and I for our anniversary and had a good time. Generally deflecting shit tests a bit better and doing a better job of not caring if I upset my wife by being "selfish" (translated, just getting some basic things done my way and not hers)
2) Had the aforementioned covert contract/blow up fairly recently. It turned into a big fight and she was still mad at me the next day (for reasons I honestly don't remember, but not the ones I was expecting). It eventually got better and the vaca I planned seemed to erase any remaining hurt feelings. However, a week later and I am right back in the same boat. We had some agreement on a rendezvous and I am getting all the usual BS excuses. I am practicing OI right now, but I need to come up with some sort of consequence if this continues.
stop talking about sex - stop planning sex with her ... stop being anything other than rock-solid OI when sex doesnt happen when / how you want it ...
learn to A&A her complaints about small nits to pick with anything ... let her know that it is saddening to live with a person who acts as if she is entitled to uninterrupted perfection and so frequently points out and complains about small things instead of living contentedly with so much luxury ... take on an almost buddhist like demeanor expressing compassion for her in her suffering over these shortcomings when she could choose to otherwise express gratitude ... no resentment / no pissyness / just A&A zingers that make your point obliquely
donot abdicate parenting just because she is a SAHM - delegate, yes, but hands on participate too ... do not be the jr. asst. momy ... be the fully engaged awesome dad who the kids can trust and come to for fun, positive energy, advice, etc ... do NOT let you kids get a hint that you work 'for' mommy or that 'she is the boss of you' ... be VERY on guard that she is not too hard on them demanding perfection in all things and leaving them fearful/resentful of her (more than enough anecdotes about Asian-heritage moms being REALLY hard on kids and the kids not always being happy / well adjusted even though they are often seemingly high achieving)
inject positive energy to your marriage (not just the household in general) ... arrange activity dates where she has no idea what /where you are going outside of you telling her how to be prepared (clothes/footware/etc) ... NOT just dinner and a movie and cofee afterwards ... something where you ENGAGE with each other ... my standard soapbox advice is ballroom dance lessons because it is fun, movement filled, romantic and INSISTS upon the MAN LEADING AND THE WOMAN FOLLOWING !!!
think about how you two met and what she was attracted to back then - recreate that dynamic / energy if not the specifics
learn her love language(s) and hit it from a position of leadership (not a whiny beta position of offering her something in hopes of getting laid) ... start with words of affirmation - let her HEAR you acknowledge with detailed words all she does well and the value it creates for your family (many Asian women did not get many words of affirmation as a young girl growing up - if she didn't , this might start to satisfy a VERY deep seated need) .. especially do it when she has been NOT perfect - let her know that when she provides her best on a pursuit/result, you are thrilled - let her know she doesnt HAVE to be perfect
banish covert contracts .. do not do ANY of this in hopes of getting laid .. do it because it creates awesomeness that you are inviting her to be part of
yeah, she has money - but she is still a woman who more likely than not wants to be attracted to a strong man who provides leadership and comfort in a good balance
you're in the right place
welcome and good luck
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Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
I haven't asked for or verbally "hinted" about sex in more than two years. I used to do that, we even had some terms for it...... Ugh.
Put back on course via a 'One Hour Call' with Athol. Seriously worth 10 times the cost, but don't tell him that....
“Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Victor Frankl
On the SR thing, I'm sure a lot of guys "Over rank" their wives. Her being 41 and good height/weight is great, but she drops a point or point/half not putting out sex more often. It's all great having an 8 wife but not being able to enjoy it more often sucks. But once you master OI and start turning around her thinking that that the prize is you, and if she keeps turning you down then she's losing out, not you. That's when she becomes a 6.5/7.
You, On the other hand, are 37. Nice height but weight can be upped by adding muscle.
I am 5' 11" and probably 5-7 lbs heavier. Not because of fat, but lean muscle.
You will be soon entering into your prime. Get muscle and enjoy the ride. A confident, well dressed, fit guy is a prize in his 40's...You'll get some serious IOI from women. And your wife will notice it. You'll see some mate guarding if you follow your MAP.
I did not start this until I was 44, and I now feel 34.
Be funny, unpredictable. Not just around her but in your daily life.
Lastly, this has to do with SR, no dig against your wife or any other woman at all. Her sex rank will go down as she gets older, yours will go up. Barring you turning a 180 and gaining 80 lbs. you will out rank her if you stick to your MAP.
More goes into a guys SR. Financial strength, how we dress, physical build (not fat - muscular), confidence and leadership.
So much to learn here; life changing information.
Put back on course via a 'One Hour Call' with Athol. Seriously worth 10 times the cost, but don't tell him that....
“Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Victor Frankl
"honey, i'm a 7 trending 8 and you are a 6 trending 5, so you better get in here and roger me roundly" said no one successfully ever
there is SO much more important and objectively-assessed data to be gathered - and work to be done - as to make conversations about SR really secondary ...
MAP to increase your awesomeness ... if you run the MAP and go through the phases and get to the phase 5/6 moments, then your SR will be the best possible condition for any re-entry into the sexual market ... but more likely, running a successful MAP will lead the marriage your in to a much better place and SUSTAINABLY so
good luck
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Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
As for SR, I only consider it as an initial assessment ranking - like what a person's resume looks like at a glance. All the other things like leadership, dominance, good parenting are only applicable in LTR when you really know someone. Honestly, I really don't care what the rank is. We're roughly equal at this point and my fitness gains have been equaled by her of late as well - which I suppose you could take as a good sign.
I really have no desire to bulk up too much. I am at about 10% body fat, so I look pretty good even at the lighter weight. I am going more for the Tyler Durden look rather than Khal Drogo.
I was a 6, wife was probably a 7. I did the work, take away MAP for a moment, I did the lose weight, lift weights work.
Of course as I lost weight and gained muscle guess who was a little late to notice...the wife. Others who I seen maybe once or twice a month started giving me compliments in front of wife. Then on top of IOI in front of her it must of gotten her to notice more.
With the compliments, less fat, more muscle the confidence came. I became less caring of her turning me down. I just thought "Hey, it's her loss." I'm awesome. There was no "lack of sex" talk by me. So with her seeing me not pout, go on with life within a month SHE started to initiate sex.
Of course couple the MAP with getting in great shape is the goal.
If you get Athol's video series I believe one of the first things he mentions is there has got to be some kind of workout/weight lifting regime.
Lastly, the guy can never say "I'm a 6 going to a 7 and you're a 6 going to a 5 do better get over here". It's her seeing the change in her husband, both because of mapping and getting fit.
Youre doing this this for YOU. If your wife decides to come along for the ride great. If not, I agree, you'll be in top form if you end up on the market.
Thats a long way off, at 37 you have plenty of time to master it.
What worked for us eventually was to come up with a budget where we each contribute equally. It puts us on equal footing, and we make the big financial decisions together. I just keep the extra that I earn in the bank, or invest it.
What SPR said is highly valuable advice. Inject as much awesome into the relationship as you can.
And don't give yourself an excuse not to act due to her familial wealth ... you slay, bruh .... so act like you got hot sauce in yo bag
Don't let her verbally or otherwise disrespect you - learn to swat away with amused mastery or steely eyed seething if she needs to be reminded what appropriate requests made in an appropriate tone are.
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Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
Anyway, back to OP. You seem like the weights under control. Just work out. I don't belong to gym. I do it in my man cave while watching walking dead/dvr'd shows.
$100 weight set on Craigslist should be a good start.
I don't remember if I read from your triage if you do or have done any weights.
what exactly do you want?
we can help you tighten your tactics if we know your strategiic objective
i will go out on a limb and guess that you want more frequent, more awesome sex with your wife as an enthusiastic, generous partner
i am guessing that you are physically attracted to your wife, so i'd recommend that you start acting on it ... read up on responsive desire stoking and start doing it ... drive -bys, flirty texts, etc ... start being apologetically male towards her (touches / meat stares / comments / etc) ... a man who loves and is attracted to his wife who stands fully in the truth that marriage is a sexual relationship - anything less is just a complicated friendship (and, as such, unacceptable) ... be fun, positive, and unconfusingly direct about your desire for her, attraction to her, and plans for her .... initiate when you want sex unless she is bright screaming 'red' ... do not cock block yourself by talking yourself out of initiating because she probably doesnt want it or will shoot you down ... make her own her 'no', do not give her an easy way out ... and be OI if she does say no ... no sulking, no pouting, no whining, no begging, no resentment, etc ... walk away with a bemused expression saying " really? you'd turn down a chance to get some of this <gesturing to your body and flexing ? what a silly choice. oh well, maybe some other time .. " ... then walk away and go do something awesome for yourself ... let her know that she does not control your emotions with her rejection ... and the next time you do have sex, be sure to give it to he hard and powerfully being sure to be expressive about how desirable she is ... then say "you're welcome" afterwards"
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Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
You also start where you are today. If you're hulked up, lean & mean you won't get much forward movement in this department.
Find your weaknesses and start working on slaying them. Watch out, this self improvement stuff is addictive!
Put back on course via a 'One Hour Call' with Athol. Seriously worth 10 times the cost, but don't tell him that....
“Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Victor Frankl
I also like to make a noise of she's naked, getting ready to shower. Kind of growl at her.
Put back on course via a 'One Hour Call' with Athol. Seriously worth 10 times the cost, but don't tell him that....
“Between stimulus and response, there is a space. In that space is our power to choose our response. In our response lies our growth and our freedom.” - Victor Frankl