How long did you go without and not get pissy?

HappyTrail

As kind of a polar opposite to a recent thread about frequency, I'm interested to hear from successful mappers how long they ran a map with zero sex while still being happy/unaffected/confident/high value. My past reaction was to be distant and even angry. I have a much better handle on that now, however as the months roll on its getting ever-more difficult to not fall back into that rut. There are only so many cool things someone can go do for month after month after month of rejections.

CartB4Horse

I would go a few weeks and then get pissy; that led to sex (usually).

What's interesting is how the dynamic changes after you MAP for a long time and find real OI.  For me, I go longer and it doesn't bother me..... Weird, 'eh?

HappyTrail

@cartb4Horse So getting pissy worked? Why didn't you just get pissy sooner if it got you what you wanted? What if you had gotten pissy after a few weeks, been rejected for say 6 months, what would your mood have been to and about your wife? Now that you have found "real OI" you can go for months and not care if you have sex or not? That seems counterintuitive as a successful map would normally lead to more and better sex so I don't get what you mean. (Sorry to bombard you with so many questions back!)

Tennee

You can't be 'OI' forever.   Well, I guess you can - if you're OI for ages, you've accepted a sexless marriage.  At some point its time to destabilize things, begin a Phase Escalation, and prepare for the advanced Phases, up to and including departure. 

Pissy/Angry/Whiny, etc. doesn't work.  Its leads to pity-sex on a drip-tube. 

The question isn't 'How long can you go and be happy' - the question is, 'How long am I willing to put up with the status quo - even though I have successfully MAPped and forged ahead with real, tangible, dramatic improvement'. 

Charlie

Yep. Getting pissy will get you some sex (depending on the wife), but it won't be the sex you want. 

maverick

My time is growing shorter and shorter as the cognitive dissonance between how I view myself and what my wife reflects back to me increases.  Athol even admits in the videos sometimes the more dominant sexual flavor males have the harder time with rejection.

HappyTrail

maverick said:

My time is growing shorter and shorter as the cognitive dissonance between how I view myself and what my wife reflects back to me increases.  Athol even admits in the videos sometimes the more dominant sexual flavor males have the harder time with rejection.

Not following, can you rephrase in plainer language?

HappyTrail

Tennee said:

You can't be 'OI' forever.   Well, I guess you can - if you're OI for ages, you've accepted a sexless marriage.  At some point its time to destabilize things, begin a Phase Escalation, and prepare for the advanced Phases, up to and including departure. 

Pissy/Angry/Whiny, etc. doesn't work.  Its leads to pity-sex on a drip-tube. 

The question isn't 'How long can you go and be happy' - the question is, 'How long am I willing to put up with the status quo - even though I have successfully MAPped and forged ahead with real, tangible, dramatic improvement'. 

I understand that process but it doesn't really answer the question asked. I'm not yet in position to destabilize and prepare to hit the road. And it may still be a while. In the meantime I need to continue in a sexless marriage and be content with it. Do you realize what that's like for months on end? How tempting it is to jump the gun and call it quits?  I'm trying to find hope that others have done the same for so long and came out better in the end and how they coped in the meantime. If I were still short sighted I'd argue that drip feed sex is 100% more than I get now. 

maverick

HappyTrail said:

maverick said:

My time is growing shorter and shorter as the cognitive dissonance between how I view myself and what my wife reflects back to me increases.  Athol even admits in the videos sometimes the more dominant sexual flavor males have the harder time with rejection.

Not following, can you rephrase in plainer language?

My opinion of myself grows.  Your wife's sexual response is supposed to be a mirror of your attractiveness.  They don't agree => marital dissatisfaction.  Imo, outcome independence means you not 'pissy' with your wife, it's not her fault.  You are still disatified, nonetheless.

HappyTrail

maverick said:

HappyTrail said:

maverick said:

My time is growing shorter and shorter as the cognitive dissonance between how I view myself and what my wife reflects back to me increases.  Athol even admits in the videos sometimes the more dominant sexual flavor males have the harder time with rejection.

Not following, can you rephrase in plainer language?

My opinion of myself grows.  Your wife's sexual response is supposed to be a mirror of your attractiveness.  They don't agree => marital dissatisfaction. 

Ok, back to my question. How many months did you map sexless before that changed? How were you truly happy during that time and not frustrated? 

JellyBean

Just for the record, at first glance I thought it was a word other than "pissy" in the title of this thread.

Slipangle

Yeah, along the lines of what jb said, my first thought was that was a rough 10 days when I strained my back and had pussy for the taking but I couldn't get off my back. 

Sexlessness isn't the worst thing that you can possibly go through. 

HappyTrail

@shibari

Huh? Now I'm confused. What does "jump the gun and call it quits" mean? Especially if you're not willing to "destabilize and prepare to hit the road"? Meaning the same thing. Wondering about jumping to that stage even if by-the-book I'm not ready. Because I'm tired of being in a sexless marriage with virtually no passion. Because I'm struggling to see the light at the end of the tunnel.

Also, why are you even writing all this negative stuff? You already turned your marriage and marital sex life around. As @Kiche just reminded you in your MAP thread, in January you even reported sex 3 times in a row. Turned it around? A couple good weeks three months ago is hardly a turn around. Like I said, its hard staying positive and optimistic of lasting change.

Content? You don't have to be content. You will have to accept that it may take a while for your wife to get over her loss. And you will have to continue with structured MAP and among other things stand up for yourself and your needs. Good perspective, I'll try to start thinking of it more like that. The "may take a while" part is just taking a whole lot longer than I thought.

*do you even know the video series? If not, get it and work through it. Me, I listen to it during ma commute, just like with a podcast Yes, I've watched the whole thing and made notes of every episode

Tennee

@HappyTrail said:

I understand that process but 1) it doesn't really answer the question asked. 2) I'm not yet in position to destabilize and prepare to hit the road. And it may still be a while.  3) In the meantime I need to continue in a sexless marriage and be content with it.

I'm not trying to be argumentative with you, aight?  I wan to clarify my original comments.  That said:

1)  I get that, but I frankly don't like the question as its asked - it emanates from the mindset of failure.  I don't like the entire premise.

2)  Destabilizing things does not automatically mean you will end the marriage; it's 'And/Or', not 'And'.  If you don't upset and change the status quo, you never will.

3) Why?  See 1 & 2 above

I'll bow out here, as I won't be productive for your actual question.  Again, not to be argumentative, but I reject its premise outright, and (like Shibari notes, the word 'content' is terrible here) want you to understand that the status quo is your enemy here, and likely the root of your problems. 

Angeline

As long as your MAP is a covert contract for sex, you're going to be pissy, and pissy is super unattractive. You do too much of the household work, your life is out of balance, so of course the MAP just feels like extra work, because "look what all I'm already doing!!!!" 

You're a religious man, right? Is prayer and doing good works part of a checklist for getting into heaven, or a tally of credits built up so bad things won't happen?

Or stuff you just DO, because you're supposed to?

HappyTrail

Thanks for offering another perspective @Tennee and giving me more to think about. I still don't understand how #1 is a mindset of failure. Its a statement of fact. Its the (sexless) world I live in that I'm trying to deal with. You said you'd bow out but I'd still value your reply to the items below:

Regarding #2, unless I am once again misaligned in my thoughts, I didn't think the time to destabilize things was while I am still working on structural items that are evidently the driving wedge in the relationship. Don't I have to succeed at those first? Because if I don't and she isnt attracted then all the initiations in the world will fall on deaf ears? Isn't destabilizing at the wrong time worse than waiting to destabilize at a more appropriate time? Please correct me if I'm mistaken.

#3 - Why? See above. Per my map post, it was determined that self esteem and implementing consequences are my primary reds and likely the reason she is unattracted to who I am. These will take time, especially un-doing a lifetime of low self esteem. I need to just keep working and accept the fact that I am high drive in a sexless marriage until such a time that this gets resolved and attraction returns. Again, feel free to explain if this is wrong, I'm all ears!

CartB4Horse

HappyTrail said:

@cartb4Horse So getting pissy worked? Why didn't you just get pissy sooner if it got you what you wanted? What if you had gotten pissy after a few weeks, been rejected for say 6 months, what would your mood have been to and about your wife? Now that you have found "real OI" you can go for months and not care if you have sex or not? That seems counter intuitive as a successful map would normally lead to more and better sex so I don't get what you mean. (Sorry to bombard you with so many questions back!)

Not having OI used to work in getting sex, but it came with a price I'm no longer willing to pay.  Before I started running my MAP we were having sex about 1 x week, so it wasn't that I didn't get ANY sex.

I've gone as long as 6 weeks without, after MAPing, and not had a problem with it because my wife had other issues going on.  I was able to see past my own "needs" and realize that I had a partner that needed me.

Sex will return to your marriage, stick with it!  Run the Phases, improve yourself.  Remember, you're wife is grieving so going mini-Phase Four on her now would be a CMN.

Tennee

Happy to answer/discuss with you.  I just didn't want to T/J this off into tangent-land; if you're cool with it, so am I.

"I didn't think the time to destabilize things was while I am still working on structural items that are evidently the driving wedge in the relationship. Don't I have to succeed at those first? "

Yes, and No.  I gotta go back and re-read your MAP thread, so this is coming from my lacking that perspective.  Yes, obviously you identify and fix your glaring, fire-engine Reds.  But I personally wouldn't adopt a totally conservative, cautious approach.  Initiate when you want sex, OI when shot down.   Think back to the 'hot' stretch you had and what worked and what didn't.  And I agree with everyone else here - your W just suffered a traumatic event - that is obviously having a profound effect on her. 

And 'destabilizing things'  doesn't mean blowing up the relationship; you can take loads of little steps and change the status quo.   Leadership moments, passing Shit Tests, stop being Jeeves, start holding people accountable for their actions as Captain - all of these destabilize the status quo without causing an exit of the marriage, per se. 

"I need to just keep working and accept the fact that I am high drive in a sexless marriage until such a time that this gets resolved and attraction returns."

Yes, keep MAPping your ass off.  Yes, accept the fact that you're the HD partner.  Its the 'concede' tone throughout that I keep choking on.  Same as this:  "I still don't understand how #1 [My note, in reference to the Thread Title] is a mindset of failure."

Here's how I read your Thread Title:  "How long do I have to be unhappy until I'm REALLY unhappy".  

You see it all as an Either / Or, as opposed to moving both along simultaneously.  MAP, fix what's busted, AND change the status quo.   Work on improving the Reds AND building attraction while initiating, and good OI when shot down.  Make sense?

I hope I'm coming through.   I just think this problem gets attacked from multiple flanks, not a linear plodding along.  

I may not be the best advice here on this - I didn't upset the apple cart when I first got here.  I doused it in gas, set it on fire, and heaved it careening down the street.  Which, you know, may not have been exactly the correct approach.  Patience is not my virtue however, so YMMV. 

george

This is one of my problems. And I sure wish I could solve it.  

After ~1 week I'll get cranky. And it starts the "no sex-get cranky-no sex" cycle. Eventually Mrs G sees it and realizes the problem but I can spend the in between time pretty unhappy and stressed.

What at gets me is that it becomes a negative cycle instead of a positive cycle.  The positive would be so good - I just feel able to take on the world. And the difference is so small.  Just getting ahead of it a bit would change the whole dynamic for the better.

I sense this is MY problem.  But I have 't figured it out yet. 

CartB4Horse

Part of the journey is figuring this stuff out.

I work on myself, work on leadership, RC, OI, getting shit done, initiate successfully, initiate and get rejected.  Rinse and repeat.  I throw in some lessons learned and I get better and better.

I fall off the horse and the cart runs over my ass... You know how the rest of the story goes.....

HappyTrail

@Cartb4Horse

Not having OI used to work in getting sex, but it came with a price I'm no longer willing to pay.  Before I started running my MAP we were having sex about 1 x week, so it wasn't that I didn't get ANY sex. I have had stretches of 1-2 years without sex and most other times its been 6-12 months. Can you visualize what effect that would have on a guy and what an uphill battle this is? As far as grieving, it seems to me that she is now just milking the no-sex part.