My man feels bad and I want us to get past this

WendyG

Athol_Kay said:

Douchebag-immediately-before-fiancé got anal on the first weekend. Fiancé had to wait three months for sex?

Why did you decide to approach sex so differently with these two men?

This really is just way embarrassing cause I guess it's true.  I went slowly with my fiance cause like I said before, I wanted things to develop into a real relationship that could then maybe get us to marriage.  With the douche I knew there was no future so I guess I went for the physical.

WendyG

generalzod said:

Who ended the fling between you and douche?

Things fizzled out pretty quick. He was all about and only about sex. He was also all about sexual stuff other than backdoor. I went along for the ride and I then realized that it was getting him off in a big way but didn't do it for me.  When I met my now fiance I stopped returning the douche's texts and calls. He was kind of persistent but I told him I'd met somebody new and that was it. 

WendyG

fordsvt said:

Put him at ease.  That guy is a clown.  You're with him now so ramp it up. 
Sexy bedtime attire and stiletto heels then rock his world.  Show him he's the one period. 

FOR SURE !!

I just don't want my fiance to think less of me if I start gettingh all wild and crazy, so maybe gradually - if that makes sense.

Templar

WendyG said:

fordsvt said:

Put him at ease.  That guy is a clown.  You're with him now so ramp it up. 
Sexy bedtime attire and stiletto heels then rock his world.  Show him he's the one period. 

FOR SURE !!

I just don't want my fiance to think less of me if I start gettingh all wild and crazy, so maybe gradually - if that makes sense.

That would be unlikely that he would think less of you - especially since you have an established relationship. It is a myth that he would think less of you for doing sexual things with him that he wants to do.

MrGrimm

Was anyone else within ear shot of the party conversation? If so, along with what has already been said, he may also be embarrassed about others hearing and wondering if this will happen again at some other party.

Eightbit

WendyG said:

Eightbit said:

  There's inadequacy, obviously, but also he's now realizing that you were substantially more physically attracted to douche.  

He hasn't said that. What he has said or rather questioned is how I could have sex with an asshole like that.

He's unlikely to tell you his true feelings on this.  You failed to address the elephant right now which is are you physically more attracted to your fiance or no?

Fwiw,  I thought similar things about some of my wife's former partners.

Eightbit

WendyG said:

fordsvt said:

Put him at ease.  That guy is a clown.  You're with him now so ramp it up. 
Sexy bedtime attire and stiletto heels then rock his world.  Show him he's the one period. 

FOR SURE !!

I just don't want my fiance to think less of me if I start gettingh all wild and crazy, so maybe gradually - if that makes sense.

This is silly.  I think you're rationalizing the fact that you're not as attracted to your fiance as you are to douche.  I could be wrong.

Pen_and_Sword

If you want your fiance to think less of you, there's no surer way than to make sure he can tell you're holding out on him and stringing him along until you get him good and hooked. If you want him to be all-in, then you need to be all-in.

Angeline

Angeline said: 

The one way to fix this is to over time, make him forget all about the past because of the wonderful, fun sex you're both enjoying now. If that makes you twitch, then we'll figure that out.

Persephone

I might be one of the few women here who can speak to this sort of history. The key here is frame. Yours. You can't have a sexual history like the one you describe and be touchy about these things. You did it and it's done. Don't allow yourself to be guilted. Plain and simple, if your H had decent 'game', he'd be getting it too. He obviously does not.

Men don't like to hear this, but it's true: there are consequences to having no game. Guys with game get backdoor stuff within a weekend. 'Nice' guys don't even know how to ask for it (hint: 'asking' is the problem). Of course, you don't have to be quite so cold-blooded about it, but them's the facts.

You have a few options. You could prostrate yourself at his feet and beg his forgiveness. Or, you could utilize your vast experience to give him the most awesome GFE ever. In that way, he'll feel more like the happy beneficiary instead of the guy left holding the bag.

Your sexuality should never be bound with guilt. Don't allow it. You lived life before you met him. I hope you learned how to give a good bj.

SMan

@WendyG said:

I just don't want my fiance to think less of me if I start gettingh all wild and crazy, so maybe gradually - if that makes sense.

Before you go too far down the garden path, I want to explain something.

I've had experience with the situation you have been describing here. And I know exactly where your thinking is coming from- I've heard the same thing from many women.

First, let me explain where my experience comes from.

I've never had what you're describing done to me directly (a woman who doesn't shave, and who doesn't do more 'exotic' sex techniques, so-to-speak, gets nexted in my case, so I haven't experienced it personally.)

However, I've developed a bit of a reputation among friends and acquaintances for knowing more than usual about sex, relationships, and unfortunately . . . divorce. People come to me asking for advice sometimes.

I did help a couple out where the wife was outed (sex tapes, in this case) as having done some 'exotic' things with guys before marriage that 'she didn't care about,' right away.

She had this idea, though, that since her husband was such a good man, and she loved him a lot, she was afraid of him thinking she was a "slut" and losing him.

Is this starting to sound familiar?

She was refusing to do even blowjobs for her husband.

The husband was in a rage. In fact, I found out about this situation because he was wanting a referral to a divorce lawyer. He had moved out of their apartment, and was wanting to get started on the divorce right away. His STBX wife was beside herself crying when I called her.

Talking to her, I got the story described above about why she had withheld from her hubby.

Talking to him was interesting. He was very clear that he wasn't enraged because she had done sexual things with men before marriage. He was no prude.

He was enraged that she had been planning on depriving him of the sex life he wanted so badly (he had been craving the blowjobs she was refusing) for his entire life, while taking advantage of his caring nature and instinct to deprive himself 'to do what's best for her.'

He felt cheated and used.

And while he wasn't able to verbalize it, I think what was revealed scared him a little. It had given him a look into the abyss (a life with no blowjobs) and he wanted to fight back- if that makes sense?
___________________________________________________

So Wendy, please let me emphasize to you that this is very serious. Some guys may internalize it and try to avoid hurting your feelings, others may let it all pour out. But make no mistake- this is one of the most devastating things that can happen to a guy, if what I've seen is any measure to go by.

Don't hope this will go away. It needs to be healed.

Fortunately, I think healing can happen.
_____________________________________________________

Perhaps you will find what happened to the couple described above helpful?

After the wife was told what her husband had said, she agreed to talk to him about her fears. They got back together sort of on-probation, where he expected her to be fully sexual with him, and he agreed to be kind toward her and not take anything out on her.

I thought their attitudes were admirable in fact, and today they have a sex life beyond even what was in the sex tapes. It involves stuff we're not allowed to talk about on MMSL (the F-word, LOL)

I guess you could say the sex tape discovery turned out to be the best thing that could have happened to them. But boy, they were close to the edge of the cliff.

I'm out of time right now, but later on if there is interest, I could post about the attitude so many women have, that they should withhold sex from guys who are "real catches"

Let me just say for now, though, that this is one of the most corrosive lies that women are inculated with in our WASP society. And it has destroyed many a marriage, even when the woman's secret seuxal history has never been outed.

______________________________________________________

PS- Let me also point out that there are more ways than just a creepy ex-sex-partner to get outed. Sex tapes (or more accurately, camcorder videos saved to hard drive, not an actual videotape) can resurface even when you've thought they were discarded.

SMan

I guess I never got to my suggestion. here it is as conciesely as possible.

1. Talk to your fiance and confess to him that it was precisely because he is such a great guy that you were withholding from him
2. Don't use euphemisms. Call a spade a spade- you were withholding. He'll appreciate openness, IMO.
3. Ask him if you could start over again- this time you doing sex all the ways you wanted to, but were afraid to do with him
4. and him being open about how he's feeling, and committing to making you feel good about being an amazing sex partner
   

Reborn

What SMan said!

I've seen this too.  I actually think it's not all that unusual.
I've had an "ex" try that manouvre on me - I didn't let it work. 

What Persephone said is also helpful.Guilt is not the point. 
The point is, is the fiance as pyhsically desirable as the ex?

Persephone said:

Men don't like to hear this, but it's true: there are consequences to having no game. 

You could frame it to your fiance as "you're actually more attractive than him, but you need to learn more game".  

never_again

+1 to @Sman.  My situation was a bit different in that I did get the pornstar sex, as a set-up to the classic bait-and-switch.  Suddenly the pornstar sex disappeared once I converted all my personal property to marital property.

10 years later, I can't even begin to describe the rage I still feel against that woman.  Not all women - just her.  Divorce gave me my freedom but I'll never replace what she took from me. "Cheated and used" are exactly the words to describe it.

Don't be that woman.

Eightbit

I want to add something that's been missed.  If it is an attraction issue, this place and Athol's books might be able to help him.  It certainly helped me, just ask my wife.

Persephone

SMan said:

I'm out of time right now, but later on if there is interest, I could post about the attitude so many women have, that they should withhold sex from guys who are "real catches"

Let me just say for now, though, that this is one of the most corrosive lies that women are inculated with in our WASP society. And it has destroyed many a marriage, even when the woman's secret seuxal history has never been outed.

 

This response does not occur in a vacuum. Even here, when we've discussed high partner count women, there was a noticeable air of.. opprobrium coming from the men on the forum. And this is a group of guys self-selected to like women who like sex. 

Where does that leave the woman with experience? Lying, that's where. Lying about their pasts, ashamed, and hoping not to be outed. Why? Because certain men (ime, 'nice guys') are notorious for mixed messages and Madonna/ whore complexes. They say they want X totally disgusting, filthy (but good!) sex act and forget all the times they disparaged 'those sluts'. Women, being women, respond to those messages by shutting down sexually.

And this, in part, is what I meant by guilt. You are trying to guilt her. In the example you gave, the wife is being mean, 'depriving him'. My lord. If a man can't provide a space where his wife feels sexually-accepted enough to give a bj, he's doing. it. all. wrong. WendyG is under no obligation to have freaking anal sex with somebody, husband or no, who doesn't make her feel comfortable enough to do so. You don't marry a woman and get an all-access pass to all of her holes, especially the one we're talking about. There's still preliminary work to be done, work I'm not getting the impression he did. No shortcuts. I bet you ol' boy did the work, and on an expedited schedule.



Wendy, that wasn't for you. It was kinda meta. My advice to you is to start feeding him the red pill a little bit at a time, eventually ending with him reading the books. I've had the 'step your game up' talk in a different context, phrased just like that (my soundtrack during this difficult time, ymmv). It wasn't easy, but tbh, neither is anal sex.

_io

The fact is, whatever rationalizations are being run, fiance does not currently have whatever it takes to get your engine revving high enough to get you to your highest performance.

Whether high partner count in a woman is good or bad is irrelevant to improving your current situation.  You have a lot of experience with alpha assholes like the jerk who purposely just screwed you over with your fiance.  They fulfilled your body agenda needs, but were not good partners.  Now you have reached a point in your life where you want to settle down with someone more emotionally available and who makes you feel good, but he does not have what it takes to unlock your sexuality like your previous insignificants.

Your fiance has no doubt been taught that being loving and respectful of women is the true measure of a man.  He should cater to her and give her what she wants, and this will unlock her sexuality because that's what modern civilization tells him.  But he doesn't recognize that this is actually bullshit and modern feminism is talking out its ass.  So he cannot evaluate this situation correctly because he doesn't have the correct framework.  He can only make inferences based on what he knows.

You both are wrong.  You think you can happily settle down after an experienced youth and be perfectly happy with a nice guy now that you have sown your wild oats, and he thinks that being a nice guy is the correct way to woo and win a woman and live happily ever after.

He needs MMSL bad, like today, if there is any hope of this ending satisfactorily.  

never_again

@Persephone, of course you're right from a lizard-brain context.  The problem is that this guy's higher brain will be thinking "I'm all-in, why isn't she - have I been played for a sucker?"  And that's where the rage comes from.  He sees this as a betrayal that goes right to his own lizard-brain.

Absolutely agree that he needs MMSL tout suite, but she also needs to know where his mind is at right now so she can deal with the inevitable storm.  Hopefully her understanding where he's coming from will lessen the DLV (and fear) that she'll experience as a result.

Crashaxe

@WendyG

You are hoping that your fiance is going to forget this incident.

He never will. Not even when he is 90 years old. This is a bell that can not be unrung.

I'm not saying that you can't move past it, but don't delude yourself into thinking that he has ever forgotten about it simply because he stops bringing it up in the future.

Persephone

_io said:

 .

Whether high partner count in a woman is good or bad is irrelevant to improving your current situation. 
...

Your fiance has no doubt been taught that being loving and respectful of women is the true measure of a man.  He should cater to her and give her what she wants, and this will unlock her sexuality because that's what modern civilization tells him.  But he doesn't recognize that this is actually bullshit and modern feminism is talking out its ass.  So he cannot evaluate this situation correctly because he doesn't have the correct framework.  He can only make inferences based on what he knows.
  

The point of my post was not to re-litigate the merits of high n vs low n women. It was to answer a question asked many times in this thread, to explain the rationale of a woman who engages in casual sex, but becomes reticent in the marriage bed. We have to remember, feminism lies to women too. They tell us we can all have sex like men and then settle down with a 'nice guy', an inversion of the old cliche of a guy who sows his wild oats and then settles down with a virgin. She didn't come up with this on her own. Her operating framework is as faulty as his.
 
I'm pushing back against the framing of her actions as some sneaky bait-and-switch. She did not cheat on her fiance, she didn't break any vows. Her honor is intact. Her only fault is buying into the same feminism-influenced framework that he bought into.