Bickering is Beta

SMan

This post is a followup to something I mentioned to @htx2008 in a thread of his

So the catchphrase to remember is "Bickering is beta"

Where did that thought come from.

Background: as a health industry professional who has gone out into the world of startup companies and the executive suite, I've been privileged to meet and get to know men who can be classified as true Alphas.

These guys are a breed apart, and for the record, they recognize each other when they meet, and they interact very differently with each other than they do with "subordinates."

One thing I've noticed is, and filed in my memory banks is: these guys never bicker.

Just want to put that out there. I can elaborate if people are interested.

zook

As someone that's currently lucky enough to work with a few of these guys it's something I've noticed as well. They 'just get the job done'

I'd like to hear you elaborate too.

DaddyOh

Part of falls on the motto. "Leadership is not about ability but rather accountability"

No excuses, no drama, just get it done.

Tennee

"One thing I've noticed is, and filed in my memory banks is: these guys never bicker."

All out War on the other hand...

TPoke

I would submit that they aren't seen "bickering" much because they are not told no much or disagreed with due to being surrounded by subordinates, or at least people who have a vested intrest in seeing them happy. However when told they are wrong they turn into unbearable assholes, and "bickering" doesn't begin to describe it. 

At least that's what I have learned from working with C level executives. 

Elise

So, as a member of a C level team these posts are making me laugh ... We throw down sometimes (yes, some of the guys more than others), but essentially it is a lack of time for bullshit and a common interest in success that creates a big discussion then plan for action. Just circling the issues and bickering about the small things doesn't really happen. 

Reborn

TPoke said:

I would submit that they aren't seen "bickering" much because they are not told no much or disagreed with due to being surrounded by subordinates, or at least people who have a vested intrest in seeing them happy. However when told they are wrong they turn into unbearable assholes, and "bickering" doesn't begin to describe it. 

At least that's what I have learned from working with C level executives. 

Elise said:

So, as a member of a C level team these posts are making me laugh ... We throw down sometimes (yes, some of the guys more than others), but essentially it is a lack of time for bullshit and a common interest in success that creates a big discussion then plan for action. Just circling the issues and bickering about the small things doesn't really happen. 

I guess some teams are more sane than others

Rorschach

TPoke said:

I would submit that they aren't seen "bickering" much because they are not told no much or disagreed with due to being surrounded by subordinates, or at least people who have a vested intrest in seeing them happy. However when told they are wrong they turn into unbearable assholes, and "bickering" doesn't begin to describe it. 

At least that's what I have learned from working with C level executives. 

And I've seen very senior partners have a temper tantrum or two. At times, asshole doesn't even begin to describe it.

Angeline

Huh ... so people be people.

Tennee

So I read the comment @SMan   referenced; this I completely agree with - one does not throw a tantrum about dirty dishes.  The Captain of the family doesn't bicker about little nonsense; the Captain Captains.

@Elise said:  "and a common interest in success that creates a big discussion then plan for action. "

@Reborn said:  "I guess some teams are more sane than others"

I watched two C level Execs engage in what could only be described as 'open warfare' for a period of years.  Much to the absolute detriment of their personal (and the entity's) 'common interest' - it was a power-play that never ended.   It was fascinating frankly.  They were Alphas on steriods BTW - no one was going to back down.  Ever.  I guess its true - it sure as hell wasn't 'bickering'. 

So, maybe the health care industry is more genteel than others.  And Cripes Almighty @Rorschach @Ellise   put a bunch of C / Senior Exec level folks who are attorneys in a room.  Ha!   Watch the posturing, peacocking, sniping, potshots, one-ups, etc. begin. 

Elise

Hey now @Tennee... remember I am one of those C Level folks who is also an attorney. I take offense to such claims! 

Tennee

@Elise said:

Hey now @Tennee... remember I am one of those C Level folks who is also an attorney. I take offense to such claims! 

Um....had you thought I'd forgotten? 

Elise

@Tennee I have been fairly quiet as of late ... 

BetaTester

My assessment id bickering is never downhill.

Angeline

Tennee said:

So I read the comment @SMan   referenced; this I completely agree with - one does not throw a tantrum about dirty dishes.  The Captain of the family doesn't bicker about little nonsense; the Captain Captains.

@Elise said:  "and a common interest in success that creates a big discussion then plan for action. "

@Reborn said:  "I guess some teams are more sane than others"

I watched two C level Execs engage in what could only be described as 'open warfare' for a period of years.  Much to the absolute detriment of their personal (and the entity's) 'common interest' - it was a power-play that never ended.   It was fascinating frankly.  They were Alphas on steriods BTW - no one was going to back down.  Ever.  I guess its true - it sure as hell wasn't 'bickering'. 

So, maybe the health care industry is more genteel than others.  And Cripes Almighty @Rorschach @Ellise   put a bunch of C / Senior Exec level folks who are attorneys in a room.  Ha!   Watch the posturing, peacocking, sniping, potshots, one-ups, etc. begin. 

I'll see your attorneys and raise you university professors.

And in my experience, the bickering flows MUCH more easily downhill than any other direction.

HildaCorners

I've been having to go to the local courthouse a lot recently, continuing legal battles with my BSC ex. [Who loves to bicker.]

One of the more fun parts of the day is watching my Alpha lawyer move through the halls. He stops to chat with other suits, asks if they're also going to Judge X's retirement party, exchanging pointers on dealing with the new judge ... most of my life, I've dealt with engineers and nerds, so watching smooth Alpha at work is a delight.

My lawyer does not bicker. He does not show emotion (even when my ex started swearing at him.) Instead, he calmly goes for the jugular.

Tennee

This discussion made me think about one of my favorite books (In my Top 5 Mandatory Reading - hmmm, that would be an interesting thread...):  Barbarians at the Gate. Originally published in 1989 - its about the hostile takeover of RJR Nabisco, which at the time was the biggest financial deal ever. 

Its a fascinating character study:  F. Ross Johnson, Henry Kravis, Nick Forstmann, George Roberts, Jim Robinson...all these titans of industry and Wall Street - all Alphas on steroids.  One guy in the book had the nickname of 'Mad Dog' and ate Milkbones in meetings and barked at people.   What's fascinating to me is that they all lost sight of The Prize - in this case, the leveraged buyout of RJR Nabisco - and it became an all consuming fight to 'Win'. 

In the end, KKR 'won' - they took-over RJR/N.  But destroyed it - and everything in their path; they ultimately had modest returns on some assets they sold off and took losses on others. 

The Prize became secondary to The Fight.  It became 'winning at whatever cost'.  20+ years later, this is still probably one of the best and most interesting business books you'll ever read.  Still used as a case study in many MBA/business schools. 

Pick it up - its a roller-coaster of a read.  And very insightful in terms of watching what happens when The Fight becomes the real prize. 

Rorschach

@HildaCorners I think we're talking about lawyers back at the office dealing with mere mortals and underlings. Your lawyer doesn't bicker a the courthouse because he's "on".

HildaCorners

Yes, but opposing counsel bickers, even in front of the judge.

If one won cases based on the quality of the argument ...

SMan

@HildaCorners said:

I've dealt with engineers and nerds, so watching smooth Alpha at work is a delight.

Guys, in her post above Hilda described an Alpha to a "T"

Read what she said, think long and hard, about what you "think you know" about Alpha, then compare it to what Hilda has said.

Then relax for a second . . . and think about whether you would like to be the kind of man women take delight in watching.

The clue truck has driven up to the loading dock.

Are you going to take delivery?

dalef

I've known alpha engineers (all the good project managers and lead engineers at NASA, several engineers at contractors). (NASA is where I've done engineering, I did physics before that).