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Moving to Phase 6, ready to move on
ruckus
Silver Member Posts: 331
It's been a rough 7-8 months for me. You can probably find that in my posting history over that time frame. My wife's depression has been back in full force since Oct/Nov and never has went away. There have been brief periods of it easing up, but it's been a constant strain on our marriage. I thought everything was fine. After the year we had in 2015, (up till Fall time), I thought this was a non issue. She got her back pain straightened out, she stepped up and took on her responsibilities around the house, sex, connection, intimacy, etc were all there. I thought we were good.
Wife is back to not showering but once a week or so, and spending a lot more time in bed. I thought it was SAD and weather related, but it's not been much better since spring time. She has done a better job of cleaning and keeping up with the bare minimum of house work than in years past, but not much beyond that. Sex has dropped to once a week or less even. Even general affection, kissing, drive bys, etc... just little response anymore. I'll come home and lightly pin her against the cuonter and start kissing her and she's pulling away in 3-4 seconds. Just repeated behavior like that over any contact/affection.
We only have sex once a week OR when there is a big dopamine hit. Took her to get a make over and a nice dinner one night. Had sex till 4AM afterwards. Went out to dinner in a cool new place, came back to my office at work and had sex on my desk (one of my all time favs, btw). Old BF contacts her on FB out of the blue, went ultra mate guard and shut that shit down, crazy sex that night. The crazy thing is, it's not just those occasions where the sex is hot. Our once a week of sex or so, is porn star hot. Hell our sex has been hot as fuck for a while now in my MAP process. So I feel like the attraction is there and everything, my gut is it's just her medication and/or depression that's the issue for us.
I've asked her point blank 2-3 times in the past 7-8 months to go see a doctor. Printed out names and numbers and gave them to her. Started the conversation from several different angles. Even had her Mother talk to her about it (her Mother wants to see her get help too). Nothing has left a dent. One conversation even had a very vague, "or else", that I never really followed up on. I saw her researching docs one day about 4 months ago, but nothing past that. She joined a gym to help, but went once and never went back. Home workout plans, diets, and anything related to health, she starts then stops... no matter the encouragement I supply.
On Sunday night, and I'm still not sure what prompted this conversation, I set her down and explicitly told her that my needs were not being met in this relationship. My sexual needs and general affection/connection. Said I need to have sex 3x a week (which was our average last year when times were good) She said we've had this conversation before and no need to have it again. I can think of only one other time when this subject was talked about, and that was really the turning point early in my MAP process. I'm OI. I've learned to be almost out of necessity more than anything because her receptiveness and moods are so erratic, yet she says I get mad when she says no. Of course her version of me being mad is "you kiss me on the forehead and say ok and walk away". Anyway... I talked about how I'm feeling like I'm the only one putting in effort and I deserve better than this.
She said she can't do anything, I don't walk around horny all the time. So I briefly explained responsive desire and how I don't expect you to be horny and all of that. Then she says she's just mad at me all the time for doing/not doing XYZ around the house, and doesn't feel like it. Anyway, once we were passed that I talked to her about how i'm not blaming her, and I think her medications/health is a big contributer to this and the erraticness of our sex life.
M: The way I see it is, there are 3 paths to this. 1) This is your sexual drive, and ours are just mismatched, not much we can do. 2) Our spark/passion/whatever ebbs a flows a lot and we have extreme periods of good and bad. 3) There is something underlying, maybe with your mediation/health, here that we're missing, and maybe there is a way to work on it. Because our sex life isn't working for me.
W: I can't do that (referring to frequency discussed earlier). If you want to leave me then leave me, just don't cheat on me.
She stormed off and after she calmed I talked to her for a few more minutes about seeing a dr and all of that.
W: "So you want me to go see a dr, get on new meds for 3 months, find out they don't work, go back and try new meds, then try the process again and again"
M: "yes, that's exactly what I want. I've been very direct with you in asking what I need from this relationship. The fact that you have no desire to put forth an effort is frustrating to me. I feel like you don't want to be here.
We haven't really spoken that, and it's been ~72 hours.
I've had enough time to process where this marriage is at, and understand the magnitude and steps I would need to take if I go ahead and file for a divorce, and I'm ready. Guess I never was before, but now I am. She either doesn't have he capacity or desire to grow with me and look at herself... And I can't stay in this relationship anymore the way it is. I do intend on issuing the phase 6 ultimatum, but I don't have any faith it'll work.
I feel like I have done the best that I could, maybe not the best all the time, but I tried for 2 years to save and build this relationship. I probably should have been more stern and quick to force the depression issue to a head. Hell I first brought it up 18 months ago. But then things were great for almost a year, so I let it go. Then the few times I've escalated it recently, there wasn't any bark to my bite I suppose. I never pressured her into sex, but I do initiate a lot. Not just sex but drive bys, groping, make outs, etc; looking back that could have done more harm than good if she was in a clearly awful mood.
Not really asking a question per se, just wanting to share and get that out. I'm really glad I found this place and Athol's books 2 years ago. It's lead me on a journey of personal growth that has made me a much stronger, confident, happier, and sexier man. And the journey is not over yet.
Wife is back to not showering but once a week or so, and spending a lot more time in bed. I thought it was SAD and weather related, but it's not been much better since spring time. She has done a better job of cleaning and keeping up with the bare minimum of house work than in years past, but not much beyond that. Sex has dropped to once a week or less even. Even general affection, kissing, drive bys, etc... just little response anymore. I'll come home and lightly pin her against the cuonter and start kissing her and she's pulling away in 3-4 seconds. Just repeated behavior like that over any contact/affection.
We only have sex once a week OR when there is a big dopamine hit. Took her to get a make over and a nice dinner one night. Had sex till 4AM afterwards. Went out to dinner in a cool new place, came back to my office at work and had sex on my desk (one of my all time favs, btw). Old BF contacts her on FB out of the blue, went ultra mate guard and shut that shit down, crazy sex that night. The crazy thing is, it's not just those occasions where the sex is hot. Our once a week of sex or so, is porn star hot. Hell our sex has been hot as fuck for a while now in my MAP process. So I feel like the attraction is there and everything, my gut is it's just her medication and/or depression that's the issue for us.
I've asked her point blank 2-3 times in the past 7-8 months to go see a doctor. Printed out names and numbers and gave them to her. Started the conversation from several different angles. Even had her Mother talk to her about it (her Mother wants to see her get help too). Nothing has left a dent. One conversation even had a very vague, "or else", that I never really followed up on. I saw her researching docs one day about 4 months ago, but nothing past that. She joined a gym to help, but went once and never went back. Home workout plans, diets, and anything related to health, she starts then stops... no matter the encouragement I supply.
On Sunday night, and I'm still not sure what prompted this conversation, I set her down and explicitly told her that my needs were not being met in this relationship. My sexual needs and general affection/connection. Said I need to have sex 3x a week (which was our average last year when times were good) She said we've had this conversation before and no need to have it again. I can think of only one other time when this subject was talked about, and that was really the turning point early in my MAP process. I'm OI. I've learned to be almost out of necessity more than anything because her receptiveness and moods are so erratic, yet she says I get mad when she says no. Of course her version of me being mad is "you kiss me on the forehead and say ok and walk away". Anyway... I talked about how I'm feeling like I'm the only one putting in effort and I deserve better than this.
She said she can't do anything, I don't walk around horny all the time. So I briefly explained responsive desire and how I don't expect you to be horny and all of that. Then she says she's just mad at me all the time for doing/not doing XYZ around the house, and doesn't feel like it. Anyway, once we were passed that I talked to her about how i'm not blaming her, and I think her medications/health is a big contributer to this and the erraticness of our sex life.
M: The way I see it is, there are 3 paths to this. 1) This is your sexual drive, and ours are just mismatched, not much we can do. 2) Our spark/passion/whatever ebbs a flows a lot and we have extreme periods of good and bad. 3) There is something underlying, maybe with your mediation/health, here that we're missing, and maybe there is a way to work on it. Because our sex life isn't working for me.
W: I can't do that (referring to frequency discussed earlier). If you want to leave me then leave me, just don't cheat on me.
She stormed off and after she calmed I talked to her for a few more minutes about seeing a dr and all of that.
W: "So you want me to go see a dr, get on new meds for 3 months, find out they don't work, go back and try new meds, then try the process again and again"
M: "yes, that's exactly what I want. I've been very direct with you in asking what I need from this relationship. The fact that you have no desire to put forth an effort is frustrating to me. I feel like you don't want to be here.
We haven't really spoken that, and it's been ~72 hours.
I've had enough time to process where this marriage is at, and understand the magnitude and steps I would need to take if I go ahead and file for a divorce, and I'm ready. Guess I never was before, but now I am. She either doesn't have he capacity or desire to grow with me and look at herself... And I can't stay in this relationship anymore the way it is. I do intend on issuing the phase 6 ultimatum, but I don't have any faith it'll work.
I feel like I have done the best that I could, maybe not the best all the time, but I tried for 2 years to save and build this relationship. I probably should have been more stern and quick to force the depression issue to a head. Hell I first brought it up 18 months ago. But then things were great for almost a year, so I let it go. Then the few times I've escalated it recently, there wasn't any bark to my bite I suppose. I never pressured her into sex, but I do initiate a lot. Not just sex but drive bys, groping, make outs, etc; looking back that could have done more harm than good if she was in a clearly awful mood.
Not really asking a question per se, just wanting to share and get that out. I'm really glad I found this place and Athol's books 2 years ago. It's lead me on a journey of personal growth that has made me a much stronger, confident, happier, and sexier man. And the journey is not over yet.
5
Comments
If you can get the sex frequency at 3x when things are good and she is healthier, having her go to the Dr. is the right move for the ultimatum, that is a requirement for you guys to stay together.
Sometimes you have to allow a person to fall apart before they will get on board with getting themselves truly helped. I personally can accept a slow pace of improvement, as long as it is moving forward.
I know how hard this is, and I wish you well.
She had some form of depression while we were together and dating, but not bad. After our son was born she was a mess, so her OBGYN put her on Cymbalta for the baby blues. It's been 6.5 years , and she's still on it, and wont' go see another doctor about it. Hell I have to practically drag her just to get get a checkup at our family doc.
think twice about what can be saved and built upon with focused captaining
best of luck
============================
Fuck Culture. Live your life - Beatrice
Cymbalta is a decent drug if it works for her, has she ever had the drug dosage adjusted? These medications have to be tweaked. My wife is on zoloft/wellbutrin and has tried several others, it didn't work for her. Medicines can stop working all together because the brain chemistry changes.
I'm no expert on hormones, but I have experience being the spouse of someone with abnormal hormones. My wife has a history of PCOS and is a type 2 diabetic, started at about 25 and went hand in hand with increased weight gain. Her depression worsened over time, but after our second child it got severe.
With your wife endometriosis is a hormone issue as well and there is likely some common cause between it and her chronic depression.
It is hard for people to get mental health help because they don't want to be labeled crazy.
This is a make or break issue for your marriage. Honestly your son deserves a mother who will take care of herself even if the marriage doesn't survive.
That being said, I bailed on my marriage when I realized the "crazy outweighed the hot".
I assume you have kids. Again, think long and hard.
Agree with all of this here.
No , never had dosage adjusted or anything. It's full unmanaged/self medicated treatment for depression.
Funny you should mention hormones. A few weeks ago, I ran into a dr at my gym that "specializes" in that. Talked to him a bit about my T and my wife's mood and stuff. I planned (and guess till can) to make an appointment with him. Said he might be able to help. W was kind of intrigued when I talked to her about it.
I have no idea what her hangups are about treatment. Maybe it's the stigma, I'm not sure.
I appreciate the alternative opinion. It's more than just sex, though that's a major factor.
There is also feeling that at times your wife is a dependent more than a FO. Just things like how she can't drive down to the city (and it's a small city) because she has anxiety over the traffic, or how she gets anxiety and I have to twist her arm to call the dentist or school back. And how I never know when I come home from work, and she's so down she can't get out of bed, so surprise: dinner, dishes, bedtime, etc is on me. Or how she can easily go 4-5-7 days without showering. I can be positive and show some affection/attention to "bring her out of it" at times, but damn man, it's hard when she had hygiene like that. It's exhausting. A lot of nights recently, after the boy is asleep, I've just vegged on the couch for an hour (sometimes with or without her) and did nothing productive. I'm drained. That's on me, or at least part of it is, but it's tiring to say the least.
I didn't come here with a AAAAAF marriage, where I've pulled the F up to a B. That I agree I could probably live with. I came here with something like a: DFFDFF marriage (don't remember the exact categories).
If so, who is renewing her prescription for 6+ years without an exam?
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
May take 3 or 4 tries to get the right balance but it's worth the time.
Depression med most often need to be adjusted every few years. Also anxiety and depression go hand in hand and they are way to treat that as well. I would also have a conversation with the doc who prescribed her meds and hasn't required any follow ups. That is completly unethical and if that is the case she needs a new doc. Are you sure your wife isn't just going in and saying everything is great?
I know how you feel. My wife has depression and anxiety. Feels like your in emotional quicksand. No matter what you do it only seems to get worse and you wear yourself out. My wife has gone from a complete mess to right as rain in a couple weeks after a slight adjustment to meds.
Let's see. OBGYN prescribed it for a good while , several years, without much more than a regular visit. Then our insurance changed, and they would no longer accept it without going through 2-3 generic ones first. Switch to something for a few months, and it was awful. Then she stopped taking it all together for a good while. This was terrible. Then she got some free samples to get started on it again, but never went to a real dr to try and get something else prescribed or treated.
The past few years her mother has been getting it for her, through her doctor. Her mom can get it prescribed because she has ms, and I think at this point it's just understood by all parties (including MIL dr) what the hell is going on.
It's completely ridiculous.
Nope. Well outside of just basic logistical talk. I have nothing to say to her at this moment. She apparently has nothing to say either.
Has she ever had issues with suicidal thoughts or threats?
I personally would make this a hill to die on. Either she gets proper medical care, or "she's given you a lot to think about."
Enneagram 5w4. I'm researching what that means, before designing t-shirt art about it.
"I feel no shame in making lavish use of the strongest muscles, namely male ones (but my own strongest muscle is dedicated to the service of men - noblesse oblige). I don't begrudge men one whit of their natural advantages as long as they respect mine. I am not an unhappy pseudomale; I am female and like it that way." RAH
But if i wait till he's enrolled back in school, there's a good chance I got get the emergency relief and he'd stay here with his school/friends while the divorce proceeds.
My ideal is 50/50, which is an uphill battle against a SAHM. But combined with her mental state and all the child care I do currently, Attorney said I have a good shot. Problem is that would require us to live in the same community and all of that, and I have my doubts she'll want to stick around here. If 50/50 wont' work out, I'm going for M-F custody at minimum.
So I might see another attorney next week just for a 2nd opinion, but it sounds like my best bet is to ride this out over the summer.
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net
However, keep in mind that the fact that you are aware that mom is illegally taking prescribed medication and you have done nothing about it can also factor into a custody issue.
Yeah that was part of the conversation about her behavior and all that. How that, refusal to seek treatment, etc... all help me.
He did say I need to be prepared to not pull any punches. "you look like a nice guy, but you have to be mentally prepared to throw her under the bus, if needed". Which is the truth, and I'm glad he said it, but still sucks.
Remember to play!
Do the right thing, whether anyone is watching or not.
Be married, until you are not.
Email address: angeline.greenwood@att.net